Gold and Bitcoin

[Peter90]

I have some physical gold and more bitcoin relative to the gold I own. I have gold because I like it, it has a nice colour, it is a classic store of value and you can touch it. Bitcoin you can't touch but it's easier to hold large amounts and send it far away.

Gold too is easier to hold large amounts and send it far away, just do it through gold-backed stablecoins.
With kinesis for example transfer fees are 0,45% of the transferred amount.
Sending 100$ of gold costs 0,45$.
Sending 1.000$ costs 4,5$.

Transfer is very quick, either seconds or few minutes, they use a fork of the stellar blockchain.
So quicker than Bitcoin.

Gold is stored in 7 major gold trading hubs around the world and audited 4x/year by a major auditing firm, so everybody knows the gold backing the coins is there.
Buying/selling gold on the kinesis exchange costs 0,22%

[DrBeer]

I have some physical gold and more bitcoin relative to the gold I own. I have gold because I like it, it has a nice colour, it is a classic store of value and you can touch it. Bitcoin you can't touch but it's easier to hold large amounts and send it far away.

Gold too is easier to hold large amounts and send it far away, just do it through gold-backed stablecoins.
With kinesis for example transfer fees are 0,45% of the transferred amount.
Sending 100$ of gold costs 0,45$.
Sending 1.000$ costs 4,5$.

Transfer is very quick, either seconds or few minutes, they use a fork of the stellar blockchain.
So quicker than Bitcoin.

Gold is stored in 7 major gold trading hubs around the world and audited 4x/year by a major auditing firm, so everybody knows the gold backing the coins is there.
Buying/selling gold on the kinesis exchange costs 0,22%

In this thread I received an answer to the question that was bothering me, about kinesis!

Those. Kinesis Has real gold reserves that are sold within their system, and can be requested at any time in the form of real metal bars?

At the same time, the volume of assets in Gold and silver undergoes regular verification (audit) and there is official confirmation of the ownership of Kinesis as well as compliance with their obligations to customers, in ensuring their purchases of precious metals, with real reserves of gold/silver?

Not an attempt at distrust, but clarification - which companies conduct audits, who publishes them, and what responsibility do the parties have - the seller and the auditor? This is just a very subtle question...

[Gormicsta]

I would probably choose Bitcoin because it is an innovative technology that is still undervalued and has huge growth potential. It is also a digital currency with a limited supply, which makes it more unique. Of course, gold is always in price and it is a physical asset with a long history of stability, but still I am for technology!

I understand your perspective. In the last several years, Bitcoin has undoubtedly grown significantly, and its potential for future expansion is really intriguing. Furthermore, despite the lengthy history of gold as a safe haven investment, there is merit to the revolutionary qualities of cryptocurrencies. However, it's crucial to keep in mind that cryptocurrencies are still a relatively new and erratic kind of investment, so not everyone should do it.

[Perfect540]

Both gold and bitcoin are good investments.  But Bitcoin is going to be a more valuable investment than gold.  If one can invest and hold bitcoins now then surely there is a possibility of doubling the investment in the future.  In the context of my country investing in gold like Bitcoin definitely has double the profit potential as Bitcoin.

[DrBeer]

About bitcoin, from our reality
Here's a look - in the last 7 days, Bitcoin has lost almost 10% of its value, and there is a suggestion that this is not the final.
How do you think, how will behave the OBVIOUS who just bought 1 week ago bitcoin, for example 10.000 dollars?  Today he sees that his "investment" has already brought minus 100 dollars. The thinking of the average person is "if it gets even cheaper, I will lose even more". И... applause... he tries to sell it! That's what most of the "home investors" will do.....
And they also realize that cryptocurrency is not gold, and it is not all unambiguous and legal yet... Which means - "you have to sell and buy ... GOLD "

[Peter90]

In this thread I received an answer to the question that was bothering me, about kinesis!

Those. Kinesis Has real gold reserves that are sold within their system, and can be requested at any time in the form of real metal bars?

hi Doctor

"Kinesis Has real gold reserves that are sold within their system?"
No.
Kinesis' gold reserves are not sold. They must back Kinesis' stablecoins (they are called KAU).
If kinesis would sell part of those reserves, KAUs wouldn't 100% gold-backed anymore.


"...can be requested at any time in the form of real metal bars?"
Yes.
It's called redemption: For example, you have 100 KAU. You let those be canceled in exchange for 100 grams of gold sent to you at home.

This is not buying/selling!:

You already owned 100 grams of gold through your 100 KAU, so you don't buy anything.
You only exchange your KAU for physical gold which you already owned.
It's only a change in storage: before redemption those 100 grams were stored in a vault of Kinesis, after redemption they are stored at your home.
It's NOT a change in ownership: those 100 grams were always yours.


Likewise, kinesis is not selling you anything!
In order to sell the seller needs to own what he sells.
Kinesis don't sell anything because those 100 grams of gold that they send you, were already yours.
Kinesis only stored them.

[Peter90]

At the same time, the volume of assets in Gold and silver undergoes regular verification (audit) and there is official confirmation of the ownership of Kinesis as well as compliance with their obligations to customers, in ensuring their purchases of precious metals, with real reserves of gold/silver?

Audits certify that for each KAU there is 1 gram of gold stored in one of Kinesis' 9 vaults around the world.
This is THE obligation that Kinesis has vs. their users.


Just FYI this is how an audit takes place:

"At a designated time and date, independent officers from Inspectorate International enter all of Kinesis’ global vaulting facilities and physically tally the quantity of gold and silver held.

Shortly thereafter, the inspectors checked the total against the quantity reported by Kinesis’ strategic partner, ABX, in the inventory report on a prior date. Therefore, the quantity of gold and silver held in our vaults is checked against the record of all KAU and KAG in circulation, stored on our blockchain.

As well as recording the quantity, the auditors assess the quality and weight of a random selection of gold and silver bars. For this purpose, the inspectors carry out tests to assess the weight and fineness of the gold and silver. Additionally, the auditors assess whether or not the quality of the storage facility was satisfactory.

The results of the audit verify that every KAU and KAG within the Kinesis Monetary System is based on an exact 1:1 allocated quantity of physical gold and silver."

https://kinesis.money/audits/



One (important) thing you got wrong  "... official confirmation of the ownership of Kinesis..."
Kinesis is never the owner of the gold backing the KAUs.
Kinesis is the manager, the custodian of the gold stocks.
The owner of the gold backing each KAU is the owner of the KAU.

[DrBeer]

In this thread I received an answer to the question that was bothering me, about kinesis!

Those. Kinesis Has real gold reserves that are sold within their system, and can be requested at any time in the form of real metal bars?

hi Doctor

"Kinesis Has real gold reserves that are sold within their system?"
No.
Kinesis' gold reserves are not sold. They must back Kinesis' stablecoins (they are called KAU).
If kinesis would sell part of those reserves, KAUs wouldn't 100% gold-backed anymore.


"...can be requested at any time in the form of real metal bars?"
Yes.
It's called redemption: For example, you have 100 KAU. You let those be canceled in exchange for 100 grams of gold sent to you at home.

This is not buying/selling!:

You already owned 100 grams of gold through your 100 KAU, so you don't buy anything.
You only exchange your KAU for physical gold which you already owned.
It's only a change in storage: before redemption those 100 grams were stored in a vault of Kinesis, after redemption they are stored at your home.
It's NOT a change in ownership: those 100 grams were always yours.


Likewise, kinesis is not selling you anything!
In order to sell the seller needs to own what he sells.
Kinesis don't sell anything because those 100 grams of gold that they send you, were already yours.
Kinesis only stored them.

Hi !

Yes, I didn't quite express my thought correctly. I meant exactly the possibility of redeeming real gold/silver for "virtual assets". This is a good indicator, and it means that this asset (token) has real and collateral, which stabilizes its value, and also does not allow to manipulate the market and consumers. It's just not uncommon for someone to issue a "liability" such as 10,000 kilograms of gold backed by 10,000 kilograms of gold. And then, the gold is sold somewhere, and new "obligations" are printed. And the real collateral "disappears into thin air.

So I am very pleased to hear that the system you described exists, and it is really very useful for the population !

[Gurujebs]

If you mention gold in a public space, I believe that 100% of people in that place will actually know what gold is, and they know that gold is a valuable asset that can be traded for real money, but if you mention bitcoin in the same public space, only about 80% of people or less will know what bitcoin really is. Some of those people may have heard about Bitcoin but may not have the proper knowledge about Bitcoin.

Look around you, I'm sure you will see Gold necklace, earing, a ring or even some decorations made up of gold and because it's valuable, everyone will definitely knows it and since it's one the most oldest asset in history that is a metallic valuable asset, people will cherish it. Even a pawn shop want to have bitcoin on his asset, look at our celebrity also like Gold and because it's hold value, they but and keep them as reserve for the days they don't have much again.

Bitcoin is also value but it's not a physical assets and because it's digitalize, an illiterate person don't know about it even if they have heard about it, the private keys and seed phrase system of security makes it less adaptable for people because it's not a simple asset like fiat for illiterate people.

So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?

Let's share ideas.

Even if I don't know much, I know Bitcoin for been a volatile assets and because of that alone, I will invest in Bitcoin, gold might take time even years before you can get your return on investment but Bitcoin can give you something on every halving, it's not an assurance but that alone will make me invest in Bitcoin over Gold.

[Peter90]

but for me bitcoin will not kill the gold market because it has a lot of physical applications in jewellery and industry that bitcoin doesn't have.

That's true but the major reason why Bitcoin will not kill gold is because gold is one of the 3-4 most traded currencies on the forex* - together with $, € and Yen - and one of the most traded asset class worldwide.

* The forex is the market that determines the foreign exchange rates for every currency:
"The forex market is the world’s largest financial market where trillions are traded daily. It is the most liquid among all the markets in the financial world.
Moreover, there is no central marketplace for the exchange of currency in the forex market. It is an OTC market. The currency market is open 24 hours a day, five days a week, with all major currencies traded in all major financial centers."

[dekafee79]

So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?

Let's share ideas.

Gold is more popular than Bitcoin, and we know that gold has lower risks. 
Bitcoin has a higher risk but more profit if we buy it when the price is low. 
Imagine we both bought gold and bitcoin ten years ago, surely bitcoin was more profitable.
So, I think It's the reason why rich people that know crypto will invest in bitcoin , not in Gold.
that's the fact

[Perfect540]

So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?

Let's share ideas.

Gold is more popular than Bitcoin, and we know that gold has lower risks. 
Bitcoin has a higher risk but more profit if we buy it when the price is low. 
Imagine we both bought gold and bitcoin ten years ago, surely bitcoin was more profitable.
So, I think It's the reason why rich people that know crypto will invest in bitcoin , not in Gold.
that's the fact

Bitcoin is a virtual currency whereas gold is a physical asset.  Physical assets are never more risky especially if they were perishable raw materials there would be a lot of risk but gold is not a perishable raw material so it is not risky to invest here.  On the other hand if you invest in bitcoin and if that investment is not at the right time then you will not get much profit even if you invest in it, on the other hand if you invest in bitcoin at the right time you will get much more profit than gold.  But for the time being both gold and bitcoin are valuable investments so it would be wise to invest in both if you have a plan.

[Peter90]

So, I think It's the reason why rich people that know crypto will invest in bitcoin , not in Gold.
that's the fact

Yes, and this is another fact
Monetary authorities all around the world - the Central Banks -, people who know a couple of things more than me and you about money, are accumulating gold, not bitcoin.

How about that as a fact 

[DrBeer]

So, I think It's the reason why rich people that know crypto will invest in bitcoin , not in Gold.
that's the fact

Yes, and this is another fact
Monetary authorities all around the world - the Central Banks -, people who know a couple of things more than me and you about money, are accumulating gold, not bitcoin.

How about that as a fact 

Sorry to jump into your conversation, but it's an interesting question, I'm interested too

I have an assumption that the world financial system, at the beginning of the "cryptocurrency era" simply did not pay attention to this concept, and remained faithful to the "old school" - multi-currency baskets, gold, .....
Or at least they hoped that having total control over the financial world, easily and effortlessly "put in place a youngster. But then "something went wrong" ...

Now it is difficult to say whether they have or are running companies and wallets with stocks of cryptocurrencies. But I think now we will observe an interesting game on the market - on the one hand, bitcoin-ETF was launched where big players can play, and very successfully.
On the other hand, these players probably don't have so many cryptocurrency reserves to fully manipulate the market.
On the third side, there are "private" players who own cryptocurrencies and can influence this market, which is not pleasant for financial elites, as they used to consider themselves the inhabitants of the financial Olympus, and "mere mortals" should not be a hindrance for them.... But cryptoworld has "broken the scheme" here too

[0t3p0t]

which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?

If money is not a problem to you then buying both assets will diversify your investments. I love both assets so If given a chance to have them both then will probably hodl them. These assets are future proof so no need to worry about anything.