Phoenix Wallet to be removed from US app stores

[MUGNIA]

Phoenix Wallet is not just a Bitcoin Wallet, it is also a Lightning Wallet, and that is a big problem since Phoenix Wallet opens the channels for you, which also means that those channels are soon going to be cut (or in Lightning Network jargon "closed").

I don't think most users are ging to close them.
It an app becoming unavailable in a store, it's not like suddenly is illegal to use it, if you have it installed you can still do so until it becomes banned and it would be a crime to do so, theoretically you can still install even samurai wallet right now if you have the source code, it's not a punishable offense.

Phoenix is just trying to keep themselves safe, they have a good business going around and jail time when you're making a few hundred thousand is not really attractive, nor is giving away all that money inflow!

What is going to happen with ACINQ channels and even with them, after all they might not be based in the US but still in the EU, so this will be just a breather.

I agree with you, if as long as it's still on our cellphone it can still be accessed, there's no need to worry because indirectly they closed it in the US, right, so there are still other regions that use the apk, as long as there is reasonable use, not illegal i thik all be ok

[MrSpasybo]

So far, it doesn't look like the US government is interested in going after Phoenix Wallet at all. This is simply a precautionary measure the team has taken in order to avoid the same fate as Samourai wallet. Whether or not that will actually work in the end is up for debate.

However, they would definitely like to pick off the crypto wallets from the app stores one by one if they could. As if anyone even stores large amounts of crypto in a mobile phone 

I am concerned about the allegations surrounding Phoenix Wallet and the implications for other crypto wallet applications and the development of the crypto market. I do not use Phoenix Wallet and am not aware of its differences from Trust, Coinbase, SafePal, Exodus... wallets. It seems that the US government is acting very hastily and causing crypto wallet services to be cautious. Acinq's Phoenix Wallet and zkSNACKs' Wasabi Wallet have announced early termination of service to US customers, which could just be the beginning of bigger problems in the future for crypto market. This could be the last dump before the bullrun officially starts.

[Charles-Tim]

I do not use Phoenix Wallet and am not aware of its differences from Trust, Coinbase, SafePal, Exodus... wallets.

Phoenix wallet is a bitcoin lightning wallet.

Trustwallet, Coinbase noncustodial, Safepal and Exodus are all close wallets that you should avoid. They are not lightning bitcoin wallets.

Electrum, Sparrow,  Bluewallet and many other wallets are open source and recommended. Unstoppable and Metamask are good altcoins wallet. Unstoppable is supporting bitcoin.

Phoenix Wallet is not just a Bitcoin Wallet, it is also a Lightning Wallet, and that is a big problem since Phoenix Wallet opens the channels for you, which also means that those channels are soon going to be cut (or in Lightning Network jargon "closed").

I don't think most users are ging to close them.
It an app becoming unavailable in a store, it's not like suddenly is illegal to use it, if you have it installed you can still do so until it becomes banned and it would be a crime to do so, theoretically you can still install even samurai wallet right now if you have the source code, it's not a punishable offense.

Phoenix is just trying to keep themselves safe, they have a good business going around and jail time when you're making a few hundred thousand is not really attractive, nor is giving away all that money inflow!

What is going to happen with ACINQ channels and even with them, after all they might not be based in the US but still in the EU, so this will be just a breather.

I agree with you, if as long as it's still on our cellphone it can still be accessed, there's no need to worry because indirectly they closed it in the US, right, so there are still other regions that use the apk, as long as there is reasonable use, not illegal i thik all be ok

What if they also go after Phoenix on GitHub and took it down? If this is only normal bitcoin wallet with seed phrase backup, it would have been better and people will not think about it, but the channel of a thing will make those Americans to panic and may go for another lightning network wallet.

[ABCbits]

So far, no notifications have appeared from the Phoenix wallet (iOS version) that I use. I don't know whether users from the US get this notification through the application or not.

That's a shame, since MSB also refer to U.S. citizen who lives outside U.S. But thanks for letting us know.

--snip--
This could be the last dump before the bullrun officially starts.

For better or worse, cryptocurrency wallet (with custodial LN or CoinJoin feature) isn't that popular. So personally i don't expect it'll have noticeable impact on cryptocurrency market.

[Sim_card]

That's the worst move by Phoenix Wallet because if they're removing their apps from the US app stores then they're directly giving a message to the community about their wrong practices. I know they're doing that to be safe from the sanctions of US authorities but that's not the right way to do something like that.

Most of the users might end up leaving that wallet after hearing that news and that's going to cause them to lose a large number of users. I know US is getting aggressive about crypto platforms that support privacy but giving up on US market isn't going to save any good service.

How do you want Phoenix to handle the issue of threat that can make them lose their business or their company being seized by the US government. You know that one thing with US government is that if they are coming for you, it is easy for them to make charges on you, and you will not escape the consequences. So the best is to restrict users from US to avoid their problems.

[bitmover]

So far, it doesn't look like the US government is interested in going after Phoenix Wallet at all. This is simply a precautionary measure the team has taken in order to avoid the same fate as Samourai wallet. Whether or not that will actually work in the end is up for debate.

Maybe a form of protest?
I don't get why would they be afraid of being accused of money laundry or stuff like that.

They are not custodial wallet and they also do not mix or anonymise coins

[Stompix]

I agree with you, if as long as it's still on our cellphone it can still be accessed, there's no need to worry because indirectly they closed it in the US, right, so there are still other regions that use the apk, as long as there is reasonable use, not illegal i thik all be ok

Unless Phoenix starts enforcing KYC there is no way for them to stop US users.
This is just a move to shield them from a lawsuit, as long as they say look we don't want US users they are covered, it's not their fault you're using an app that doesn't want you as a user and you lie about your location.

What if they also go after Phoenix on GitHub and took it down?

They can't go after Github "also" because they haven't gone after phoenix at all, the removal was voluntary.
Also, how decentralized is a solution by a company that can at any point demand users to stop using its services?
Not so permissionless as it was supposed to be!

[Husna QA]

So far, it doesn't look like the US government is interested in going after Phoenix Wallet at all. This is simply a precautionary measure the team has taken in order to avoid the same fate as Samourai wallet. Whether or not that will actually work in the end is up for debate.

Maybe a form of protest?
I don't get why would they be afraid of being accused of money laundry or stuff like that.

They are not custodial wallet and they also do not mix or anonymise coins

I read in the following media, besides Phoenix, Wasabi is also out from the US market:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/phoenix-wallet-acinq-zksnacks-wasabi-wallet-united-states-crackdown
https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-now-blocking-u-s-residents-and-citizens/

The following are the reasons why Acinq will close the Phoenix wallet service in the US:
https://twitter.com/acinq_co/status/1783878732865740940



I see the reason is still related to KYC regulations.

[SamReomo]

So the best is to restrict users from US to avoid their problems.

That's what those wallet's owners have thought and that's the reason why they stopped allowing US users to use their wallets. I know they had to take such action to protect themselves from the sanctions of the US government, but such aggressively disallowing users of a country to protect themselves wasn't the best move I guess.

[EthereumDev_]

So the best is to restrict users from US to avoid their problems.

That's what those wallet's owners have thought and that's the reason why they stopped allowing US users to use their wallets. I know they had to take such action to protect themselves from the sanctions of the US government, but such aggressively disallowing users of a country to protect themselves wasn't the best move I guess.

When the US government has given a statement like that, it is best for those who have assets in Phoenix wallets to immediately move their assets to other wallets. As we know there are still many wallets that could be used as a solution to this problem, the Electrum Wallet might be worth considering.

[Charles-Tim]

When the US government has given a statement like that, it is best for those who have assets in Phoenix wallets to immediately move their assets to other wallets. As we know there are still many wallets that could be used as a solution to this problem, the Electrum Wallet might be worth considering.

Stompix is very right about what is posted about the removal of Phoenix lightning wallet from both app stores. As long as other people that are not from United States are using it, that will not stop people from United States to continue to use it. But just that some people will be panic like as you posted it and move to another lightning wallet.

[SamReomo]

When the US government has given a statement like that, it is best for those who have assets in Phoenix wallets to immediately move their assets to other wallets. As we know there are still many wallets that could be used as a solution to this problem, the Electrum Wallet might be worth considering.

Yes, I agree, the users who currently trust and use Phoenix wallet or Wasabi wallet should move their assets to safe wallets which may not blacklist their countries even if US shutdowns another wallet that's providing similar features.

I believe Electrum is the best wallet for everyone who want to be secure from such policies of the so called privacy wallets. In simple words, if you haven't done something wrong then you don't need to fear anyone.

The ones who want to move their assets to Electrum should consider using a layer to provide better privacy to their transactions. In such case I believe a mixer like UniJoin could be a very useful option for them.

[dkbit98]

Why are they worried about non-custodial wallets so much, and why did Coinbase exchange suddenly added support for Lightning Network?
As if regulators want for people to only use their ''approved'' services, so they can control where and when you are sending each sat 
I was never a big fan of Lightning Network and it probably going to be even more centralized than it is now...

[TopT3ns]

Why are they worried about non-custodial wallets so much, and why did Coinbase exchange suddenly added support for Lightning Network?
As if regulators want for people to only use their ''approved'' services, so they can control where and when you are sending each sat 
I was never a big fan of Lightning Network and it probably going to be even more centralized than it is now...

It is possible that Coinbase will adopt the Lightning Network because it has a network that uses fairly low fees. This network makes it easier for Coinbase users to carry out transactions at fairly cheap fees, so this will make transaction costs at Coinbase even lower.

[Stompix]

When the US government has given a statement like that, it is best for those who have assets in Phoenix wallets to immediately move their assets to other wallets.

Yes, I agree, the users who currently trust and use Phoenix wallet or Wasabi wallet should move their assets to safe wallets which may not blacklist their countries even if US shutdowns another wallet that's providing similar features.

Why? Guys, do you realize those are no custodial wallets?
What is this about "safer" and what could the blacklist do in a non custodial wallet?
They can't freeze your funds, they can't stop you from moving your coins, and they can't even figure out where you are from.

Why are they worried about non-custodial wallets so much, and why did Coinbase exchange suddenly added support for Lightning Network?

You're already KYCd when you use Coinbase so they don't care about that, they care about unidentified user A moving coins without a trace to unidentified user B, it really makes no difference for them how you get that money out as long as they have your identifications, much like banks and ATMs.