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[examplens]

SimpleX is great and much more secure than telegram.
It takes some time getting used to it, so I suggest creating account there to see how it works.
I would suggest Thormixer to create official support contact on SimpleX, it should be faster and more private than forum or email.

I made an account there, it is quite friendly.
What interests me is whether Simplex is also an open platform for developers and the creation of various bots and plugins. For example, it would be ideal in the case of a service like Thormixer for the mixing application to switch from Tg to Simplex

[MrSpasybo]

Well, sorry but I do not think we have (as you said) veered off topic from Thormixer, because first, the question should be, why are we talking or discussing about telegram and privacy here?, and the answer is because Thormixer has a mixing bot on telegram which simply means that whatever affects telegram and it's privacy also affects Thormixer, and its not off-topic to discuss about in a Thormixer thread.

Telegram bot was only an alternative to the main mixing site, so, if paradventure, telegram is no longer private enough to support mixing apps, we can all fall back to making use of the mixing site, after all, there are several mixers out there that don't even have a telegram channel not to talk of mixing bot, and they are doing just fine.

Well, for now, if Telegram is no longer truly safe for ThorMixer users, it's best that users stop mixing BTC through the Telegram bot. This can protect us from identity-related risks in case Telegram receives a request to provide user information to law enforcement.

Personally, I've always preferred using the ThorMixer website, it provides full information, and I can easily double-check the receiving address multiple times before transferring my BTC. As for the Telegram bot - I think it's time we seriously evaluate its convenience versus the associated risks. Sometimes, using Telegram means opening a door for governments to have evidence to accuse us in the future.

[dkbit98]

I made an account there, it is quite friendly.
What interests me is whether Simplex is also an open platform for developers and the creation of various bots and plugins. For example, it would be ideal in the case of a service like Thormixer for the mixing application to switch from Tg to Simplex

I don't know about that, but I know that you can create groups, for example Thormixer owners could create Thormixer group for conversation between users, or we could have AltcoinsTalks group.
SimpleX is open source software so it's possible that someone will make propositions for this, but I don't think bots could work same as in telegram.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Well, sorry but I do not think we have (as you said) veered off topic from Thormixer, because first, the question should be, why are we talking or discussing about telegram and privacy here?, and the answer is because Thormixer has a mixing bot on telegram which simply means that whatever affects telegram and it's privacy also affects Thormixer, and its not off-topic to discuss about in a Thormixer thread.

Telegram bot was only an alternative to the main mixing site, so, if paradventure, telegram is no longer private enough to support mixing apps, we can all fall back to making use of the mixing site, after all, there are several mixers out there that don't even have a telegram channel not to talk of mixing bot, and they are doing just fine.

Well, for now, if Telegram is no longer truly safe for ThorMixer users, it's best that users stop mixing BTC through the Telegram bot. This can protect us from identity-related risks in case Telegram receives a request to provide user information to law enforcement.

Personally, I've always preferred using the ThorMixer website, it provides full information, and I can easily double-check the receiving address multiple times before transferring my BTC. As for the Telegram bot - I think it's time we seriously evaluate its convenience versus the associated risks. Sometimes, using Telegram means opening a door for governments to have evidence to accuse us in the future.

You are right, and I honestly agree with you completely, but then and again, the Thormixer team have not really said anything concerning the latest developments with telegram terms and conditions, I don't know, but I just personally believe that they (the Thormixer team) are the ones in the best position to tell us (their users) whether to continue to stop mixing bitcoin through the telegram bot, or better still, deactivate and delete the bot if it's no longer safe to mix through the bot on telegram, since the they (the Thormixer team) are the ones who built the telegram bot.

I don't know about any other person here, but I personally feel that for Thormixer team to have kept quiet all this while, and even allow the telegram bot to keep functioning normally for those that wish to use it, it kind of means that it's still safe to mix through the bot - this is just an assumption and not a conclusion.

[SamReomo]

A rich man values his time. He wants to mix BTC worth $10k and above, then he will keep sending 0.001 BTC in order to avoid paying mixers fees. Calculate how many times they will have to mix at 0.001 and completely mix $10k. It is totally insignificant and not worthy to be tried. It is what it is called - for testing. You test how fast you recieved your BTC and how clean the recieved BTC is, then if you trust the service, you make your major mix.

Well, there are two types of rich men, one type who values their time while the other type who value saving of each penny. So in that case the type two rich men will always value saving over time and such type of people can do mixing of that 0.001 multiple times without any issue. Surely, the mixer has introduced that feature for testing purpose but there are always those type of people who may take advantage of it. Let's end it here because otherwise this off-topic thing will continue here.

[Etranger]

Well, for now, if Telegram is no longer truly safe for ThorMixer users, it's best that users stop mixing BTC through the Telegram bot. This can protect us from identity-related risks in case Telegram receives a request to provide user information to law enforcement.

Personally, I've always preferred using the ThorMixer website, it provides full information, and I can easily double-check the receiving address multiple times before transferring my BTC. As for the Telegram bot - I think it's time we seriously evaluate its convenience versus the associated risks. Sometimes, using Telegram means opening a door for governments to have evidence to accuse us in the future.

Even before the recent escalation of the situation, using Telegram in terms of anonymity has always been questionable. I'm not saying that all the information there is completely transparent, but the very fact that they don't encrypt messages in chats makes you think about the potential risks.

Personally, I prefer Signal, as they are more focused on ensuring user anonymity. However, I also know that Signal isn't as convenient, so many features, including the mixer bot, wouldn't work there. I don't see any issue with accessing through the website. Mixers are generally designed to ensure privacy, so there's no point in risking it for a slightly faster and more convenient interface.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

A rich man values his time. He wants to mix BTC worth $10k and above, then he will keep sending 0.001 BTC in order to avoid paying mixers fees. Calculate how many times they will have to mix at 0.001 and completely mix $10k. It is totally insignificant and not worthy to be tried. It is what it is called - for testing. You test how fast you recieved your BTC and how clean the recieved BTC is, then if you trust the service, you make your major mix.

Well, there are two types of rich men, one type who values their time while the other type who value saving of each penny. So in that case the type two rich men will always value saving over time and such type of people can do mixing of that 0.001 multiple times without any issue. Surely, the mixer has introduced that feature for testing purpose but there are always those type of people who may take advantage of it. Let's end it here because otherwise this off-topic thing will continue here.

Sorry, we are not ending this until I state my own opinion as well, and besides, this is not off topic as long as it has something to do with Thormixer, as well as mixers in general.

Let me categorically tell you again that, its only a foolish rich man who will because he values savings, prefer to mix 0.001 bitcoin when that is not the only bitcoin he or she have to mix, imagine let's say there is a total of 10 bitcoins to mix, and the greedy and foolish rich man in his greed not to pay the associated mixing fee, decide to take the free option which is mixing 0.001 bitcoin per round, how many rounds do you think it will take before he is able to mix the entire 10 bitcoins?
How much money do you think he would have spent on blockchain transaction fees? This amount possibly would be more than enough to use to pay the fee for mixing the 10 bitcoins at ones, and he automatically will save both time and money, but....

[examplens]

Let me categorically tell you again that, its only a foolish rich man who will because he values savings, prefer to mix 0.001 bitcoin when that is not the only bitcoin he or she have to mix, imagine let's say there is a total of 10 bitcoins to mix, and the greedy and foolish rich man in his greed not to pay the associated mixing fee, decide to take the free option which is mixing 0.001 bitcoin per round, how many rounds do you think it will take before he is able to mix the entire 10 bitcoins?
How much money do you think he would have spent on blockchain transaction fees? This amount possibly would be more than enough to use to pay the fee for mixing the 10 bitcoins at ones, and he automatically will save both time and money, but....

It's incredible that this is still being discussed.

@Fivestar4everMVP You gave the final explanation, I would add, that 1BTC will be sent through 1000 transactions worth 0.001. Who the hell would want to make themselves 1BTC with 1000 incoming transactions? How much will the further transfer of that 1 BTC cost later...

So any discussion that some rich people will abuse the free 0.001 mix is ​​not realistic

[Learn Bitcoin]

I registered using a local number and changed it to a UK VOIP a few years later and I never experienced any problems with that.

I was reported (and jailed) by bots though - the whole 'I'm afraid some users found your messages annoying and forwarded it to moderators, who agreed on it" excuse is a load of BS. The whole process is almost instant now.

Good to know that. Even if you can use a telegram account without using your own phone number, I guess people who get involved in mixers should either avoid engaging mixers with their telegram account, or they are taking some risk. Telegram may store your IPs, and I don't think everyone always uses a proxy or VPN when they use Telegram.

For mixers, I guess it would be a good idea to stop providing service through Telegram even if they have an account that is not linked to any real human, considering the risk to their users.

How much will the further transfer of that 1 BTC cost later...

Indeed, a good question. Moreover, when someone is going to do a thousand transactions to mix their Bitcoin for free, they are going to spend transaction fees a thousand times.

[MrSpasybo]

You are right, and I honestly agree with you completely, but then and again, the Thormixer team have not really said anything concerning the latest developments with telegram terms and conditions, I don't know, but I just personally believe that they (the Thormixer team) are the ones in the best position to tell us (their users) whether to continue to stop mixing bitcoin through the telegram bot, or better still, deactivate and delete the bot if it's no longer safe to mix through the bot on telegram, since the they (the Thormixer team) are the ones who built the telegram bot.

I don't know about any other person here, but I personally feel that for Thormixer team to have kept quiet all this while, and even allow the telegram bot to keep functioning normally for those that wish to use it, it kind of means that it's still safe to mix through the bot - this is just an assumption and not a conclusion.

We definitely need a security audit on the Telegram bots used for crypto mixers. If the data processed by these bots can be exploited and compromise user anonymity, ThorMixer should issue an official announcement advising users to consider alternative solutions such as using ThorMixer website.

Personally, I'm not overly concerned with anonymity. I use ThorMixer primarily to obtain clean BTC for my CEX accounts. However, users who value their privacy should evaluate the situation and temporarily avoid using the Telegram bot until we have expert technical advice regarding Telegram bot security.

[dkbit98]

How much money do you think he would have spent on blockchain transaction fees? This amount possibly would be more than enough to use to pay the fee for mixing the 10 bitcoins at ones, and he automatically will save both time and money, but....

You are really getting ridiculous with this example 
First, nobody would ever do this with any mixer and your math calculations for savings are totally wrong.
Only bad actor I could imagine would do this (but not with a mixer) is some government, but they would do this to damage a service, not to save on fees.
Nothing to do with Thormixer.

[Etranger]

However, users who value their privacy should evaluate the situation and temporarily avoid using the Telegram bot until we have expert technical advice regarding Telegram bot security.

I am not sure that this is a temporary situation. In fact, if such problems are already arising, if the privacy of users is being questioned, then it is unlikely that this situation will improve for the better. Moreover, there will always be doubts about whether privacy has really become more important, and whether it is really being ensured. I think that we just need to break the connection between services focused on privacy and anonymity and Telegram. Moreover, Telegram is far from the only way to use mixers.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

However, users who value their privacy should evaluate the situation and temporarily avoid using the Telegram bot until we have expert technical advice regarding Telegram bot security.

I am not sure that this is a temporary situation. In fact, if such problems are already arising, if the privacy of users is being questioned, then it is unlikely that this situation will improve for the better. Moreover, there will always be doubts about whether privacy has really become more important, and whether it is really being ensured. I think that we just need to break the connection between services focused on privacy and anonymity and Telegram. Moreover, Telegram is far from the only way to use mixers.

Yeah, telegram is very far, the only reason why I believe we are having this discussion as it relates to telegram is because our dear Thormixer have a telegram mini app used as a secondary avenue for mixing bitcoin for any party or client interested in using that such.
Otherwise, there isn't any good reason to bring telegram and her privacy issues into our discussion here, as we all know that telegram is a social platform, though it seems that crypto users have taken it over and turned it into a crypto based or focused social platform, but in reality, telegram is still like any other social platform out there, users privacy have always been the major concern with all social platforms.

So, like another user did said above, the Thormixer website is still very convenient enough for any one user or potential user who wished to utilize this service, if one can access telegram, he or she can access the site too, so, let's advice users to prioritize using the site rather than the telegram bot, maybe until the Thormixer team assures us all that there aren't any privacy issues with using the bot If one likes.

[Learn Bitcoin]

So, like another user did said above, the Thormixer website is still very convenient enough for any one user or potential user who wished to utilize this service, if one can access telegram, he or she can access the site too, so, let's advice users to prioritize using the site rather than the telegram bot, maybe until the Thormixer team assures us all that there aren't any privacy issues with using the bot If one likes.

I don't think the Thormixer team will say that you can use the Telegram bot to mix your Bitcoin if they really know what is going on ON telegram. I am not sure if they are already aware of the recent TOS change for Telegram. Someone should tell them what is happening if they don't know about it. If they know that Telegram made some changes and now they will be forced by the authorities to share users' information, I don't think Thormixer will keep their bot open for users to use.

Afterall, providing privacy is the main goal of Thormixer. So, there is no point in operating their business on a platform where privacy will get questioned. Even if they do not understand, say "You can use the Telegram bot if you want", you should not do it if you care about your privacy. While you have the web version, there is no reason to use Telegram.

[Etranger]

However, users who value their privacy should evaluate the situation and temporarily avoid using the Telegram bot until we have expert technical advice regarding Telegram bot security.

I am not sure that this is a temporary situation. In fact, if such problems are already arising, if the privacy of users is being questioned, then it is unlikely that this situation will improve for the better. Moreover, there will always be doubts about whether privacy has really become more important, and whether it is really being ensured. I think that we just need to break the connection between services focused on privacy and anonymity and Telegram. Moreover, Telegram is far from the only way to use mixers.

Yeah, telegram is very far, the only reason why I believe we are having this discussion as it relates to telegram is because our dear Thormixer have a telegram mini app used as a secondary avenue for mixing bitcoin for any party or client interested in using that such.
Otherwise, there isn't any good reason to bring telegram and her privacy issues into our discussion here, as we all know that telegram is a social platform, though it seems that crypto users have taken it over and turned it into a crypto based or focused social platform, but in reality, telegram is still like any other social platform out there, users privacy have always been the major concern with all social platforms.

So, like another user did said above, the Thormixer website is still very convenient enough for any one user or potential user who wished to utilize this service, if one can access telegram, he or she can access the site too, so, let's advice users to prioritize using the site rather than the telegram bot, maybe until the Thormixer team assures us all that there aren't any privacy issues with using the bot If one likes.

I just don't understand at all how, for example, a new user would want to use the Telegram bot at the first place. Even in order to find out about its existence, you need to read about it, and you will not find a better source for this than the official website. And if the user visits the site and sees that mixing process can be done on the site itself, what reasons does he find to use the Telegram bot?