Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Learning & News => News related to Crypto => Topic started by: examplens on April 25, 2024, 12:59:05 PM
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For those who haven't seen it
The FEDs are again in action against services that provide privacy, of course, all under the auspices of the fight against money laundering.
(https://preev.net/imgu/sws.png)
https://samouraiwallet.com/
Federal prosecutors charged Samourai Wallet founders Keonne Rodriguez and William Lonergan Hill with conspiracy to commit money laundering
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/04/24/samourai-wallet-founders-arrested-and-charged-with-money-laundering/
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/founders-and-ceo-cryptocurrency-mixing-service-arrested-and-charged-money-laundering
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Yeah, thank you for posting it here, it is currently being discussed in bitcointalk, so it's good we can hear the views of users in this forum. The government are seriously going after privacy solutions, it now looks like a witch-hunt at this point and no longer a case of fighting money laundering.
I have been thinking what it would be like to have privacy in a few years from now, would it be completely impossible?
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I have been thinking what it would be like to have privacy in a few years from now, would it be completely impossible?
I believe that it will be as always, the more you press something, the more resistant it becomes.
Increasing pressure on privacy will probably provoke more sophisticated methods to protect it.
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Those wallets and services that give privacy to the users will always be disliked by the feds and other top authorities.
Samourai Wallet was seized because they might have got something against them but it could also be true that the seized it just by representing it as a money laundering protocol.
Who knows which service that's available to give privacy to users will be targeted next time. I'm not sure what's going to happen next but I believe we may hear some news this year again.
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The seizure is based on the allegation that Samourai Wallet laundered over $100 million in criminal proceeds through the years starting in 2015. While I am personally not so keen on money laundering, I am sure that the government will be using this pretext in order to run after crypto-based platforms that are offering privacy to their users because for them privacy means you must be hiding something. I am hoping that founders Keonne Rodriguez and William Lonergan Hill will be given their fair hearing on their case and that they will fight to the end to regain their freedom, if not the business itself. Let's hope that this is not another overreach on the part of the government and they are really just doing their mandated job in the process.
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Who knows which service that's available to give privacy to users will be targeted next time.
That's what I wonder, which one will be next, but we can be sure that some other service is already being investigated. In this particular case, according to the release they defended the use of Samourai for black money:
"At Samourai we are entirely focused on the censorship resistance and black/grey circular economy,"
I wonder if they would not have said these things if they had been seized the same way. I suppose they would have a better defence but I don't think they would have got away with it.
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Samourai Wallet was seized because they might have got something against them but it could also be true that the seized it just by representing it as a money laundering protocol.
The government will call every privacy solution a money laundering tool in this their fight against money laundering, if they cannot track the activities of its users or trace and link tx's, then they try to seize it and call it a money laundering tool. According to the government, they should know about every single thing you do with your money.
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Another service focused on user privacy that is closed with the excuse of money laundering. Another example of the control over citizens that governments want to have, and to a certain extent already have. If governments were really that concerned about money laundering, the first thing they would have to close are the banks and the first people they should arrest and jail are the bankers and people who engage in systematic theft. But that is something they will never do, since the governments themselves are an active part of that corruption.
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That's what I wonder, which one will be next, but we can be sure that some other service is already being investigated.
Yes, I also think that they might already be investigating some other service and who knows how long it will take them to seize that one.
The government will call every privacy solution a money laundering tool in this their fight against money laundering
I agree, that's why they try their best to force centralized exchange to delist privacy coins like Monero, and that's why I also deeply believe that they're fully against the concept of privacy.
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For those who haven't seen it
The FEDs are again in action against services that provide privacy, of course, all under the auspices of the fight against money laundering.
Federal prosecutors charged Samourai Wallet founders Keonne Rodriguez and William Lonergan Hill with conspiracy to commit money laundering
Another wicket for the SEC and DOJ, Although I am not a user of this wallet but heard a lot about it as people prefer to use Samourai instead of Wasabi or any other. But now I guess the wasabi wallet's downloads will increase more. I won't say it's a bad thing that another wallet was taken down by the authorities because what they did was for the safety of us, although its a loss to those who prefer anonymity but still there are alternatives in the market.
The funny thing is Wasabi also provides a conjoin service but due to some centralization in it, it's been not faced any warnings or seizures like Samourai did. I think these authorities really want to eliminate all the products providing anonymity, and on the article, they only mentioned that the CTO and CEO made 4 million dollars via fee and they were unregistered, but not a proof that they laundered illegal funds.
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For those who haven't seen it
The FEDs are again in action against services that provide privacy, of course, all under the auspices of the fight against money laundering.
Samourai Wallet became the new dangerous terrorist as they run out of those terrorist stories.
One day they are going to come to house of every single person on earth to confiscate and seize something, but we dont have to worry because this is all done for our safety ;D
Now they need more tax payer scam money stolen from people.
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One down, more to go.
First it was mixers then Samourai. Expect more in the future.
They are just saying "money laundering" blah, blah, blah. It might be true, it might be not, but the government really doesn't want privacy. I'm a user of the wallet, and unfortunately, I have some funds in it. Just saw the news a day after it happened, and with how much I have with that wallet, I felt sad like what other Samourai users are.
Anyway, can I ask if there's a way for me to withdraw the funds that I have from the wallet? Or I can't get it anymore. I'm still ok if I can't get it anyway.
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Anyway, can I ask if there's a way for me to withdraw the funds that I have from the wallet? Or I can't get it anymore. I'm still ok if I can't get it anyway.
Just read this documentation https://docs.samourai.io/wallet/restore-recovery (https://docs.samourai.io/wallet/restore-recovery), section "Export to external wallet". https://docs.samourai.io/en/wallet/advanced-usage (https://docs.samourai.io/en/wallet/advanced-usage) also shows private key for individual address/UTXO.
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Another service focused on user privacy that is closed with the excuse of money laundering. Another example of the control over citizens that governments want to have, and to a certain extent already have. If governments were really that concerned about money laundering, the first thing they would have to close are the banks and the first people they should arrest and jail are the bankers and people who engage in systematic theft. But that is something they will never do, since the governments themselves are an active part of that corruption.
Banks are the government's instrument of control over people, and they also serve to launder money in quantities that are probably in the trillions of $. Let's just remember the case of HSBC Bank, which was involved in money laundering for drug cartels and various other criminal activities around the world, so when they were threatened with closure in the US, the entire political elite of the UK came to lobby to prevent this from happening, and instead of a ban, they paid a fine of $1.92 billions and continued as if nothing had happened.
The message that the authorities send with such actions is that if you want to engage in criminal activities, you must be very big and powerful - otherwise the system will show all its strength on you.
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Banks are the government's instrument of control over people, and they also serve to launder money in quantities that are probably in the trillions of $. Let's just remember the case of HSBC Bank, which was involved in money laundering for drug cartels and various other criminal activities around the world, so when they were threatened with closure in the US, the entire political elite of the UK came to lobby to prevent this from happening, and instead of a ban, they paid a fine of $1.92 billions and continued as if nothing had happened.
The message that the authorities send with such actions is that if you want to engage in criminal activities, you must be very big and powerful - otherwise the system will show all its strength on you.
People wonder why the darknet and others exist. I do not defend what is done on many of these sites, but when we talk about privacy I think it is an example to follow. Especially with tools like Tor, which, despite having limitations, means that many people can have a little more privacy and freedom. I hope privacy tools continue to appear for the attack that we are suffering as users who have nothing to hide, but who do not consent to being spied on. With each passing day, the control that governments want to have over citizens becomes more blatant.
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Another service focused on user privacy that is closed with the excuse of money laundering.
According to them everyone and everything will be laundering money soon, except them :P
I was never a supporter and regular user of Samourai wallet but I respect all the work they did for privacy.
They probably made some mistakes along the way, but we all did, and I never once thought they should be arrest for creating bitcoin wallet.
Question is what wallet and service is next on the list in their evil agenda?
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Question is what wallet and service is next on the list in their evil agenda?
Good question, because surely there must be other privacy focused wallets and services under their radar, i saw a few people mentioning Wasabi in bitcointalk, i don't know if it is just speculation or if there is actually any hint at that. Privacy is taking a big hit right now and soon anyone who wants privacy could be called a money launderer without any evidence or fact.
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Question is what wallet and service is next on the list in their evil agenda?
Good question, because surely there must be other privacy focused wallets and services under their radar, i saw a few people mentioning Wasabi in bitcointalk, i don't know if it is just speculation or if there is actually any hint at that. Privacy is taking a big hit right now and soon anyone who wants privacy could be called a money launderer without any evidence or fact.
Yeah, most likely Wasabi and Sparrow are now in the cross-hair of the US government agency and maybe just gathering enough data to nail down the owners just like what they did to Samourai.
And they really sending a hard message to crypto enthusiast specially those who uses anonymous wallet or mixer or any services that obfuscated Bitcoin transaction, that they will be hot on their tail.
Nevertheless, it's just a matter of time before a new service will emerge from the ashes of Samourai.
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According to them everyone and everything will be laundering money soon, except them :P
I was never a supporter and regular user of Samourai wallet but I respect all the work they did for privacy.
They probably made some mistakes along the way, but we all did, and I never once thought they should be arrest for creating bitcoin wallet.
Question is what wallet and service is next on the list in their evil agenda?
I haven't used Samourai Wallet much either, I tried it a while ago, but nothing more. But the problem is that little by little they are closing and prohibiting everything that is related to privacy, while many governments and agencies use Pegasus (and other software) with impunity in the same way they used Carnivore a few decades ago, violating international laws on privacy rights.
The next to fall? It could be another wallet, a mixer, or anything that makes them think it's used to launder money, which is really stupid. That is why it is normal that every day there are more services available only on .onion domains. It's not always about hiding something, but about being able to use it freely.
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~snip~
The next to fall? It could be another wallet, a mixer, or anything that makes them think it's used to launder money, which is really stupid. That is why it is normal that every day there are more services available only on .onion domains. It's not always about hiding something, but about being able to use it freely.
It seems that some will take drastic steps to avoid a similar fate, which means that they will stop offering their "services" in the US. From what can be read, it is possible that mixers are not the only target, at least that is what the move of a well-known LN wallet suggests.
Realistically, if "they" want to regulate (ban) something, we can do a little to fight against it. However, we should not lose hope, because unless they shut down the entire internet, there will always be a way for privacy.
Phoenix Wallet, a non-custodial Bitcoin lightning wallet, has announced that it’s being removed from US-based app stores and encouraged users to make sure to empty their wallets.
This decision seems to have been made by ACINQ, the company behind Phoenix Wallet, which stated in a tweet that “recent announcements from US authorities cast a doubt on whether self-custodial wallet providers, Lightning service providers, or even Lightning nodes could be considered Money Services Businesses and be regulated as such.”
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Good question, because surely there must be other privacy focused wallets and services under their radar, i saw a few people mentioning Wasabi in bitcointalk, i don't know if it is just speculation or if there is actually any hint at that.
It's possible Wasabi could be next, but I think they played a bit smarter game than Samourai developers.
Coinjoin is not illegal, but they can always make some bitcoin address connections with ''hackers'' and blame them for them.
Government is so very lucky to always have ''evil'' hackers from N.Korea and other countries for that purpose :P
Yeah, most likely Wasabi and Sparrow are now in the cross-hair of the US government agency and maybe just gathering enough data to nail down the owners just like what they did to Samourai.
There is no real reason to touch Sparrow wallet.
They didn't directly do anything except providing different interface to Samourai wallet, and in latest version they removed all that from their code.
The next to fall? It could be another wallet, a mixer, or anything that makes them think it's used to launder money, which is really stupid. That is why it is normal that every day there are more services available only on .onion domains. It's not always about hiding something, but about being able to use it freely.
Or maybe a cryptocurrency forum? :-\
They like to mix things, so maybe they will take a break and move on some exchange next.
Now would be the best time to improve security and privacy for any crypto service.
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Or maybe a cryptocurrency forum? :-\
It could be, lol, and that is why Theymos has gone ahead to ban mixers in bitcointalk, even though mixers are still very much legal. However, i don't think they would care about crypto forums, they do not enhance their users privacy and it even gives the government the opportunity to send their reps here, who create accounts lowkey and monitor new privacy services.
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It's possible Wasabi could be next, but I think they played a bit smarter game than Samourai developers.
https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-now-blocking-u-s-residents-and-citizens/
Saturday, April 27th 2024—Effective immediately and until further notice, zkSNACKs is now blocking U.S. citizens and residents from visiting its websites, downloading and using Wasabi Wallet and any related products and services, including APIs and RPC interfaces.
In light of recent announcements by U.S. authorities, zkSNACKs is now strictly prohibiting U.S. users from using its services. An IP address blocking for U.S. residents is effective on wasabiwallet.io, api.wasabiwallet.io and zksnacks.com.
“U.S.” refers to “United States” and includes the several states of the United States and related territories. If you are a United States Citizen or United States Resident, you are not allowed to visit any sites aforementioned, download Wasabi Wallet or use the Wasabi Wallet coinjoin feature. This includes if you are a U.S. permanent resident or if you are an individual that holds a U.S. passport.
Let's see how this works for them, and if it wasn't too late.
Probably next is mandatory KYC....
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Good question, because surely there must be other privacy focused wallets and services under their radar, i saw a few people mentioning Wasabi in bitcointalk, i don't know if it is just speculation or if there is actually any hint at that.
It's possible Wasabi could be next, but I think they played a bit smarter game than Samourai developers.
Coinjoin is not illegal, but they can always make some bitcoin address connections with ''hackers'' and blame them for them.
Government is so very lucky to always have ''evil'' hackers from N.Korea and other countries for that purpose :P
Yeah, most likely Wasabi and Sparrow are now in the cross-hair of the US government agency and maybe just gathering enough data to nail down the owners just like what they did to Samourai.
There is no real reason to touch Sparrow wallet.
They didn't directly do anything except providing different interface to Samourai wallet, and in latest version they removed all that from their code.
The next to fall? It could be another wallet, a mixer, or anything that makes them think it's used to launder money, which is really stupid. That is why it is normal that every day there are more services available only on .onion domains. It's not always about hiding something, but about being able to use it freely.
Or maybe a cryptocurrency forum? :-\
They like to mix things, so maybe they will take a break and move on some exchange next.
Now would be the best time to improve security and privacy for any crypto service.
For now you can say that, but we all know that US government will do anything to shut down this operations that they deemed "evil".
Interface, they could also include that in their witch hunt, everything that provided anything to anyone, ;D will again be at their arm's length.
Or yeah, maybe the honeypot of them all, cryptocurrency forum, :)
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Interface, they could also include that in their witch hunt, everything that provided anything to anyone, ;D will again be at their arm's length.
Anything that provides privacy to people, and they also believe that most crypto services are being used for money laundering, so they are going after them all. I also believe they are witch hunting at this point, and every crypto service will be under their radar at some point, however i don't think they will care about crypto forums.
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~snip~
Let's see how this works for them, and if it wasn't too late.
Probably next is mandatory KYC....
It seems that real panic has reigned in the country of the "biggest democracy", and I suppose that it is only a matter of time before the bureaucrats in the EU will follow the same path. If nothing else, at least it won't bother us until the elections for the European Parliament take place or until the MiCA comes into full force.
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It seems that real panic has reigned in the country of the "biggest democracy", and I suppose that it is only a matter of time before the bureaucrats in the EU will follow the same path. If nothing else, at least it won't bother us until the elections for the European Parliament take place or until the MiCA comes into full force.
I'm not surprised at all by what the US is doing, I think we have a big misconception of things because they haven't acted before and have left a lot of time pass by before they did so. The thing about democracy has nothing to do with their financial stuff, the IRS has been for decades the nightmare of everyone even during the golden era of growth, you can't even get rid of your citizenship that easily and it has also been the case for years, they tax everything they have a hundred laws about capital control, they just left crypto alone and everyone thought well, this is the norm when it was actually an exception.
You (not you personally!) wanted regulation this is what comes with regulation, it's the same in every branch, from ridesharing to prostitution, you finally do lawfully things by the book and you cry at night about the times when it wasn't regulated and everything was nice and easy!
In terms of right and privacy and freedom things will get only worse, and this is just the beginning!
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A reminder that running your own node and wallet is perfectly legal.
And performing coinjoin with random people, as long as you know that they aren't wanted folks, is also legal.
And running your own lightning node and channels is also legal.
And also exchanging your cryptocurrency for another kind of crypto is also legal, ID or no ID.
This is FUD. This particular agency of the feds is very good at it. So, don't fall for this FUD, and keep using Bitcoin.
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This is FUD. This particular agency of the feds is very good at it. So, don't fall for this FUD, and keep using Bitcoin.
I agree, even mixers are not illegal, but the government is seriously going after them, we all know all of these things you mentioned is still legal, but the government is attacking BTC's fungibility and treating certain coins that go through privacy tools as 'tainted'.
And also exchanging your cryptocurrency for another kind of crypto is also legal, ID or no ID.
Better to do that on a p2p exchange. If you deposit coins that have been mixed or from a CoinJoin tx into a centralized exchange, it would be confiscated, even though mixers & CoinJoin are not illegal. :D
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According to them everyone and everything will be laundering money soon, except them :P
Almost all laundered money are in two places. Either bank or underground buried somewhere.
Question is what wallet and service is next on the list in their evil agenda?
Maybe Sparrow or another centralized mixer. Those banks are not arrested but many of the money they have with them are not clean.
And also exchanging your cryptocurrency for another kind of crypto is also legal, ID or no ID.
Better to do that on a p2p exchange. If you deposit coins that have been mixed or from a CoinJoin tx into a centralized exchange, it would be confiscated, even though mixers & CoinJoin are not illegal. :D
If it was before, they ask for KYC. Many of them are now KYC exchanges. Some will still ask for source of the coin. Some are given back to the owner. But this has been a way those centralized exchanges scam people. Send in many hops before sending to a centralized exchange.
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--snip--
Or yeah, maybe the honeypot of them all, cryptocurrency forum, :)
Unless you refer to deep/dark-web forum (such as Dread), they will only get data about average investor and signature/bounty hunter which have little value :).
Question is what wallet and service is next on the list in their evil agenda?
Maybe Sparrow or another centralized mixer. Those banks are not arrested but many of the money they have with them are not clean.
IMO another centralized exchange (who had weak or optional KYC) will be next target. After all, it happened to Binance in last year.
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--snip--
Or yeah, maybe the honeypot of them all, cryptocurrency forum, :)
Unless you refer to deep/dark-web forum (such as Dread), they will only get data about average investor and signature/bounty hunter which have little value :).
Well, theymos managed to remove any doubt about a honeypot there, he started banning things faster than the government and he openly said that if a request came, watch your history! I don't think that there is anything important on these forums other than IP data and internal mails, things the feds can get anyhow pretty easily.
As for darkwebs, that's a known fact they ran at least one after they seized it, and probably they have a few under their control as we speak.
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Let's see how this works for them, and if it wasn't too late.
Probably next is mandatory KYC....
Smart play from Wasabi team, but there is no guarantee this will protect them from anything.
Phonix wallet did something similar with removing their apps from stores for all US citizens.
People think only US is the problem, but it's not, this is coordinated worldwide attack on people and privacy.
A reminder that running your own node and wallet is perfectly legal.
I always tell people that they can make anything illegal whenever they want, and I am sure they can find holes with bitcoin keys.
Owning a gold was once illegal also.
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~snip~
You (not you personally!) wanted regulation this is what comes with regulation, it's the same in every branch, from ridesharing to prostitution, you finally do lawfully things by the book and you cry at night about the times when it wasn't regulated and everything was nice and easy!
In terms of right and privacy and freedom things will get only worse, and this is just the beginning!
I personally would like "them" to focus more on other things when it comes to cryptocurrencies, such as for example stablecoins, or all those shitcoins that are listed on CEXs, and anyone who looks a little closer to that topic sees that 99% of all that is just a nicely packaged scam.
Realistically, the real problems are elsewhere and are much bigger than mixers or LN wallets, but it is obviously much easier for them to fight against mixers because that is how they actually fight against the privacy that they can provide. Maybe it sounds a bit selfish, but I'm glad that we "elderly" will begin to "retire" a little bit and we won't have to witness everything that's coming.
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Smart play from Wasabi team, but there is no guarantee this will protect them from anything.
Phonix wallet did something similar with removing their apps from stores for all US citizens.
People think only US is the problem, but it's not, this is coordinated worldwide attack on people and privacy.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to make KYC mandatory, in case the team is thinking about it. That would immediately mean the loss of a large percentage of users who, precisely what they are looking for, is that no one requires them to do KYC to try to maintain privacy. Like the Phoenix wallet team, the US cryptocurrency market is the largest, as I remember.
Personally, I don't think the United States is the problem, but I think you will agree with me that right now everything is orchestrated from that country. At least in the news we don't see cases like this coming from other countries, and if such cases exist, they must be very few.
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That's what I wonder, which one will be next, but we can be sure that some other service is already being investigated.
I was thinking about Wasabi wallet but now they have taken some action by stopping their service for US citizens.
That counteraction taken by Wasabi wallet could be harmful for them as well because now users may say more negative words about them.
They already have seen enough negative words and now their this act may allow the ones who are against the concept of that wasabi wallet and consider their wallet useless.
According to the government, they should know about every single thing you do with your money.
So in laymen terms, they want everyone to be as transparent as possible, and that's something privacy oriented activists would never even think about. Government is against privacy because they don't want others to be secure from their eyes, but privacy activists would always try their best to do things as privately as they possibly can.
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At least in the news we don't see cases like this coming from other countries, and if such cases exist, they must be very few.
The U.S are very strong in their 'fight' against privacy in the guise of fighting money laundering, but i believe some parts of Europe are also doing the same thing. The wave of attacks against crypto services is spreading and i agree that very soon, it would be almost everywhere, the government will want to know exactly what you do with your coins.
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~snip~
Personally, I don't think the United States is the problem, but I think you will agree with me that right now everything is orchestrated from that country. At least in the news we don't see cases like this coming from other countries, and if such cases exist, they must be very few.
I've already written something about this over the years on BTT, and one of the things I mentioned is that we shouldn't be too surprised if one day the US takes an identical (or just a little milder) attitude towards Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general, as China did. The only difference is that China can do it literally overnight with regard to its political system, while the US still has to do it gradually in order to leave the appearance of a country where human rights still exist to the extent that they are presented to the world as a nation.
Although if we look at the facts, we see that the obsession with control over everything and everyone is fiercely expressed in the US and that they will stop at nothing in the fight for that control. The problem is that a lot of things that have to do with cryptocurrencies have been centralized in the US, be it CEXs, mining, ETFs - but also the fact that the US has a great influence on a large part of the world, which means that others will follow their lead.
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The U.S are very strong in their 'fight' against privacy in the guise of fighting money laundering, but i believe some parts of Europe are also doing the same thing. The wave of attacks against crypto services is spreading and i agree that very soon, it would be almost everywhere, the government will want to know exactly what you do with your coins.
Governments around the world are the biggest scammers with money laundering and crazy taxation system.
I dont see any benefit to anyone, and nobody is going to be protected becasue they arrested some wallet developers.
Some time in future people are going to laugh when they hear and read why they put people in prison for >:(
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The U.S are very strong in their 'fight' against privacy in the guise of fighting money laundering, but i believe some parts of Europe are also doing the same thing. The wave of attacks against crypto services is spreading and i agree that very soon, it would be almost everywhere, the government will want to know exactly what you do with your coins.
Governments around the world are the biggest scammers with money laundering and crazy taxation system.
I dont see any benefit to anyone, and nobody is going to be protected becasue they arrested some wallet developers.
Some time in future people are going to laugh when they hear and read why they put people in prison for >:(
Scammers are still seeing many ways to scam successfully with their fiat. Terrorists still spend their fiat but they will be talking about cryptocurrencies if little of it is link to terrorism. Most laundered money are in banks and some are buried somewhere underground most especially by the political leaders. This life is just fucked. Fiat system itself is a scam, they still prefer to go against privacy when their non privacy way is not working.
I have a brother, he messaged me on Whatsapp recently but from how he was chatting, I knew he was not him. His account was compromised, not him but a scammer. The scammer is using it to contact people he (my brother) saved their contact. He asked me for money and he gave me a bank that you will think you will be able to trace. But if you trace it, it will be linked to an innocent person. I did not even know the bank or what it is. But I know there are many fake KYCs this days on the online banks that you can open directly on your device without going anywhere.
Their fiat system or monetary system is a failure against scam, money laundering, terrorism, banditry and other criminals activities.
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I have a brother, he messaged me on Whatsapp recently but from how he was chatting, I knew he was not him. His account was compromised, not him but a scammer. The scammer is using it to contact people he (my brother) saved their contact. He asked me for money and he gave me a bank that you will think you will be able to trace. But if you trace it, it will be linked to an innocent person. I did not even know the bank or what it is. But I know there are many fake KYCs this days on the online banks that you can open directly on your device without going anywhere.
Their fiat system or monetary system is a failure against scam, money laundering, terrorism, banditry and other criminals activities.
The matter of fact is that these are exactly the kinds of fraud that need to be cracked down on, but since it is "expensive" to go and track every single person doing these things who are in different countries, as well as "inconvenient" for the platform owners who will lose money as a result of lack of revenue made by having these scammers as users, nothing is done about it. Private company interests (which are just money, money, and more money) always get in the way, and the governments go after small fish who can't defend themselves.
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Or maybe a cryptocurrency forum? :-\
They like to mix things, so maybe they will take a break and move on some exchange next.
Now would be the best time to improve security and privacy for any crypto service.
A forum?. Well, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they point out a cryptocurrency forum one day. The way theymos has acted and managed BTT since January (although logically he made those decisions before) of this year is a telling clue and something that should make all users think about how things could be. And it is something whose solution is not simple.
It is not as easy as "moving" the forum to the Darknet, Tor and .onion is not the solution, since part of the traffic always comes from the clearnet and the "technical" issues, although simple, would make many users decide not to enter to the forum. The (possible) solution would be a decentralized software for forums, something similar to Mastodon (although its servers, called instances, are centralized) but focused on forums, and as far as I know there is no software of that type available.
Sorry, I read this post while checking the thread but forgot to reply to you.
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A forum?. Well, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they point out a cryptocurrency forum one day.
I don't think forum is their main target yet, but they will eventually try to shut down every free speech platforms that talks about bitcoin.
If they don't shut down bitcointalk and other crypo forums they could always try the takeover tactics.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to make KYC mandatory, in case the team is thinking about it.
What KYC?!
They never mentioned any KYC and me neither.
Only thing they can do is to exclude someone from using their service based on IP address.
Personally, I don't think the United States is the problem, but I think you will agree with me that right now everything is orchestrated from that country.
They became just a puppet state, so no they are not the main problem.
Country that is the main source of problem is much smaller and younger than US ;)
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I think that if the time comes when they try to close forums like Bincointalk or this one (which I hope does not happen), the communities as a first solution could try to stay on the Darknet, but I also think that they would be much smaller communities, for fear of a situation such as the closure of forums and the possible "hunting" of users. I mean, I think panic would cause many users to stop participating in the forums. All this makes me think what would happen to X, which is one of the social networks where cryptocurrencies are most talked about... Something tells me that X would not have any problem even if it is not a forum per se.
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I have been thinking what it would be like to have privacy in a few years from now, would it be completely impossible?
I believe that it will be as always, the more you press something, the more resistant it becomes.
Increasing pressure on privacy will probably provoke more sophisticated methods to protect it.
I believe you examplens. There's an African bird which said "if men have learnt how to shoot without missing, he also has learnt how to fly without perching.
As you have said, the more the fight against privacy intensifies, privacy men will develop ways to remain relevant. It is necessity that breeds innovation. I am not deterred. In as much as there's internet, there'll always be a way...
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Their fiat system or monetary system is a failure against scam, money laundering, terrorism, banditry and other criminals activities.
It is total failure but most people still believe everything is going to be fine and they can continue to use it.
They always invert things, if something is white they will say it is black and they will convince people in this.
When they say something is bad there is good chance it is really good.
Privacy is not bad.
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Let's see how this works for them, and if it wasn't too late.
Probably next is mandatory KYC....
Smart play from Wasabi team, but there is no guarantee this will protect them from anything.
They Wasabi went a step further. Shutting down its Coinjoin service, effective from June 1st, 2024.
https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/
Wasabi Wallet will continue to function as a regular bitcoin wallet, users can generate private keys to receive and send bitcoin. Even without coinjoins, Wasabi’s client-side filtering architecture, Tor integration and custom coin selection make it the most private light wallet available. However, the nature of the bitcoin blockchain prevents users from obtaining complete privacy without coinjoins.
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They Wasabi went a step further. Shutting down its Coinjoin service, effective from June 1st, 2024.
https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/
The mistake decentralized mixers did was that they are kind of centralized in one way or the other. A true decentralized system can not be taking down by the government because it will be made up of decentralized nodes instead.
US government are trying all possible means to make cryptocurrencies to be centralized and in a way people can not use it privately, even if it can cause problems in the future to coins holders, they do not care.
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Smart play from Wasabi team, but there is no guarantee this will protect them from anything.
Phonix wallet did something similar with removing their apps from stores for all US citizens.
I don't think that any of those teams were that stupid to say let's just ban people from US and we will be safe.
I mean, you have guys doing something similar to you getting arrested and maybe face a decade in prison and you just take an app offline for a country and get over it, no way they didn't talk with some lawyers or even asked through some channels if somebody is coming after them.
I personally would like "them" to focus more on other things when it comes to cryptocurrencies, such as for example stablecoins, or all those shitcoins that are listed on CEXs, and anyone who looks a little closer to that topic sees that 99% of all that is just a nicely packaged scam.
And the irony in this is that when they finally label a coin or a cex a scammy behavior group, the users light more pitchforks then than they would have for protecting privacy wallets or mixers. The whole thing is so divided at this point that we won't see any consensus in fighting back on those regulations and actions, as long as they package it with promises of more acceptance and being more legal thus more $ there will be no real fighting back. We've entered the stage where $ matters the most and I'm not sure this is the right way.
They Wasabi went a step further. Shutting down its Coinjoin service, effective from June 1st, 2024.
https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/
Total capitulation, huh?
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Total capitulation, huh?
Add to that the Tumbler mixer becoming unavailable https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=320992 , pretty bad days for Bitcoin & privacy
:(
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pretty bad days for Bitcoin & privacy
:(
Very bad days and it is sad to see it happen like this, the government is clearly winning the battle. Now developers know they risk being charged and could face jail time if they write any code or run a service that enhances privacy, so they are obviously not going to do that, using BTC privately would be gone soon.
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They Wasabi went a step further. Shutting down its Coinjoin service, effective from June 1st, 2024.
https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/
Total capitulation, huh?
Wasabi's CoinJoin was going to be tainted anyway. If you remember the UTXO blacklisting nonsense that they announced two years ago, that got a lot of angry reactions, they never did end up implementing that.
I wonder when the court date for the Samourai developers will be though. They need legal support to win this otherwise they might become the next Ross Ulbricht.
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Wasabi's CoinJoin was going to be tainted anyway. If you remember the UTXO blacklisting nonsense that they announced two years ago, that got a lot of angry reactions, they never did end up implementing that.
It's interesting that Coinjoin volume is now biggest ever, everyone is trying to use very low coinjoin fees and grace period of one month.
Tainted is stupid concept and that existing would mean that Bitcoin is not fungible at all, like it or not, that is the fact.
I wonder when the court date for the Samourai developers will be though. They need legal support to win this otherwise they might become the next Ross Ulbricht.
It would be great for everyone (except government parasites) if they could win the case against them, but I don't believe regulators will allow that to happen.
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As is currently being discussed, there are lots of local news portals in my country that discuss money laundering... The government in my country immediately took the decision to tighten the KYC process for every cryptocurrency transaction. There has been no privacy here since I started being actively involved in the world of cryptocurrency (around 2017). P2P transactions are also closely monitored by the government...
I worry about the continued existence of our privacy in a Bitcoin world that the government seems to be ending soon.
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The mistake decentralized mixers did was that they are kind of centralized in one way or the other. A true decentralized system can not be taking down by the government because it will be made up of decentralized nodes instead.
US government are trying all possible means to make cryptocurrencies to be centralized and in a way people can not use it privately, even if it can cause problems in the future to coins holders, they do not care.
The United States government, as always, wants to control everything. In this case, knowing who has (traceable) cryptocurrencies and knowing who they send them to, knowing where citizens spend them and also knowing which countries those cryptocurrencies are sent to. Any type of service or product that makes everything I have said more difficult and consumes more time and resources will be declared illegal by the government, it's as simple as it seems. They make the laws at their convenience to be able to control not only citizens, but also their money and cryptocurrencies.
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Any type of service or product that makes everything I have said more difficult and consumes more time and resources will be declared illegal by the government, it's as simple as it seems.
The U.S government are yet to declare mixers and CoinJoins illegal, so i think their approach is not even to illegalize it, but to directly attack privacy options, arrest people who write and develop codes for privacy softwares, and then use custodial services like centralized exchanges to attack BTC's fungibility with the nonsense of tainted coins.
So if they do all these and devs are scared of writing codes for the purpose of privacy and people are scared of using privacy options so their coins won't be confiscated, then they have achived their goal without making it illegal.
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The U.S government are yet to declare mixers and CoinJoins illegal, so i think their approach is not even to illegalize it, but to directly attack privacy options, arrest people who write and develop codes for privacy softwares, and then use custodial services like centralized exchanges to attack BTC's fungibility with the nonsense of tainted coins.
So if they do all these and devs are scared of writing codes for the purpose of privacy and people are scared of using privacy options so their coins won't be confiscated, then they have achived their goal without making it illegal.
The thing is, you can't really outlaw mixers and coinjoins without also outlawing privacy coins such as Monero. The reason being, that it makes no sense to ban mixers when people will just do BTC <=> XMR <=> BTC exchanges on different exchanges.
I saw a stat on a chain analysis website that says one of four wallets is suspicious. Technically they mean, one of four addresses is suspicious. But if they actually think they can try to segregate dirty bitcoins from "clean" (i.e. passed through an exchange) bitcoins, then that is very dangerous and alarming.
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I saw a stat on a chain analysis website that says one of four wallets is suspicious. Technically they mean, one of four addresses is suspicious. But if they actually think they can try to segregate dirty bitcoins from "clean" (i.e. passed through an exchange) bitcoins, then that is very dangerous and alarming.
It is a bit hypocritical that confiscated "dirty" coins suddenly become "clean" after they come into the ownership of the FEDs. In their fight against money laundering, they are the biggest coin cleaners, while there is no one above them to sanction them.
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It is a bit hypocritical that confiscated "dirty" coins suddenly become "clean" after they come into the ownership of the FEDs. In their fight against money laundering, they are the biggest coin cleaners, while there is no one above them to sanction them.
Hypocritical is even an understatement :D :D.
They confiscate coins and call it 'dirty', but once they auction the coins off and collect the money for it, the coins now become 'clean' coins and centralized exchanges are no longer to confiscate or blacklist such coins. Anyway, we know they are just attacking BTC's fungibility and we do no believe in their nonsense about tainted coins.
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The thing is, you can't really outlaw mixers and coinjoins without also outlawing privacy coins such as Monero. The reason being, that it makes no sense to ban mixers when people will just do BTC <=> XMR <=> BTC exchanges on different exchanges.
I don't think they would care about that as long as it's done on centralized fully regulated and KYC-enforced exchanges, they have no intention of tracking all the stopping points, they want to know that X took 100 BTC out of exchange z and that Y deposited 100 BTC on exchange w, as long as they know the full identity of X and Y they are happy because they know you have 100 BTC, and then the IRS comes sweeping in, anything out of the ordinary and they will catch up!
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The thing is, you can't really outlaw mixers and coinjoins without also outlawing privacy coins such as Monero. The reason being, that it makes no sense to ban mixers when people will just do BTC <=> XMR <=> BTC exchanges on different exchanges.
I saw they are already preparing new law to ban such things and anything related with privacy, that only means their CBDC crap is going to be released very soon.
Think of them as ICO scammers who are selling junk, but trying to make it look good with whitepaper, while trying to kill competition before that.
Something seriously stinks here, they are in hurry and acting nervous, as if someone ordered them to do this quickly.
And don't get fooled thinking they will ever leave Bitcoin alone :P
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I saw they are already preparing new law to ban such things and anything related with privacy, that only means their CBDC crap is going to be released very soon.
Think of them as ICO scammers who are selling junk, but trying to make it look good with whitepaper, while trying to kill competition before that.
Something seriously stinks here, they are in hurry and acting nervous, as if someone ordered them to do this quickly.
And don't get fooled thinking they will ever leave Bitcoin alone :P
But even the normal people don't want to use CDBC. They think that it is too complicated ("why should I use that when Venmo/Zelle/Cash App works just fine for me?") and most are not at all interested in trying to learn complicated things that they don't understand like what a CDBC even is - they'll just think of it as yet another money account.
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But even the normal people don't want to use CDBC. They think that it is too complicated ("why should I use that when Venmo/Zelle/Cash App works just fine for me?") and most are not at all interested in trying to learn complicated things that they don't understand like what a CDBC even is - they'll just think of it as yet another money account.
I agree with what you have said, but we must add the older population to that. Not everyone knows how to use smartphones (in fact, most don't even have these devices, and if they do have them, they are very basic models that do not allow the installation of external software.), not everyone knows how to use applications to manage their finances, since many of these people only use cash. If CDBC is a standard in the near future, who will teach these people how to use it?. We only have to see what has happened in the areas of China where a pilot test was carried out, total chaos in some cases.
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But even the normal people don't want to use CDBC. They think that it is too complicated ("why should I use that when Venmo/Zelle/Cash App works just fine for me?") and most are not at all interested in trying to learn complicated things that they don't understand like what a CDBC even is - they'll just think of it as yet another money account.
I actually tried talking about CBDC with people who don't know anything about Bitcoin or crypto, and they really don't care much about it.
They think it's going to be the similar thing like with credit cards, and I am sure governments are first going to give it away for ''free'' first, and we all know everybody loves free helicopter money.
If they don't have job, no money and no food, they will probably wait in lines to get ''injected'' with CBDC crap.
Maybe they even start arresting more developers and people who reject safe and effective CBDC :P
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But even the normal people don't want to use CDBC. They think that it is too complicated ("why should I use that when Venmo/Zelle/Cash App works just fine for me?") and most are not at all interested in trying to learn complicated things that they don't understand like what a CDBC even is - they'll just think of it as yet another money account.
That's right, I see CBDC as just another digital alternative to FIAT... instead of utilizing cryptography and blockchain, but in reality complete control is with the creator of the coin, as well as the lack of privacy makes everyone who originally liked Bitcoin give it no respect which is a lot for a CBDC.
CBDC may be able to prevent money laundering, but it is really far from what we expect as people who value freedom and privacy.
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But even the normal people don't want to use CDBC. They think that it is too complicated ("why should I use that when Venmo/Zelle/Cash App works just fine for me?") and most are not at all interested in trying to learn complicated things that they don't understand like what a CDBC even is - they'll just think of it as yet another money account.
That's right, I see CBDC as just another digital alternative to FIAT... instead of utilizing cryptography and blockchain, but in reality complete control is with the creator of the coin, as well as the lack of privacy makes everyone who originally liked Bitcoin give it no respect which is a lot for a CBDC.
CBDC may be able to prevent money laundering, but it is really far from what we expect as people who value freedom and privacy.
Exactly. And if it's an alternative to fiat, do you think that normal people are going to use it? They are happy with their dollars, for now.
It is mainly intended for the banks and other financial institutions who already use all sorts of weird and strange coins, tokens, blockchains, payment methods from the dinosaur age, who are going to be the main customers of this thing. So all of these people going to events such as WEF for example and promoting this are just doing it for the sake of their rich friends at the banks to make, well, more money.
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I just went over the DoJ papers, while other owners of wallets or mixers might have a chance to get away with a few months or maybe a year or two, Rodriguez and Hill, the two highlighted behind Samurai are done for and seems to me that compared to other cases they want to set and example, I've never seen the US attorney going full blast with incriminating stuff from the start and especially with sensitive stuff as the welcoming by the devs of Russian Oligarsh to Samuray wallet tweet when sanctions where enabled.
Also, kind of interesting of them to mention this one:
(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/05/16/1Ia2m.png)
I'm 99% sure this will be one hell of a conviction and prison term, it's going to be really bad for the two above.
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I'm 99% sure this will be one hell of a conviction and prison term, it's going to be really bad for the two above.
Yeah I think that also, unless their lawyers manages to do something amazing with support of community and other people who support Bitcoin and privacy.
I would not be surprised if they end up in similar way like Ross Ulbricht founder of Silk Road, just as an example to other developers.
Another interesting ''coincidence'' news I heard today about arrested Roger Ver, he is currently held in the same prison in Spain as late John McAfee... and we all know how they suicided him back in 2021. :P
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Another interesting ''coincidence'' news I heard today about arrested Roger Ver, he is currently held in the same prison in Spain as late John McAfee... and we all know how they suicided him back in 2021. :P
Common, that's the last man the US would want to kill, he was already being extradited, he was going to face a full lifetime sentence in the US, it was clear he will be found guilty on at least five counts of tax evasion and wire fraud, if the US would have wanted him dead they would have killed him the first time he was deported to the US from Belize, he spent 4 years back in the US and nobody touched him despite being arrested twice for DIU.
He was a nutcase, there was nothing else about him.
Yeah I think that also, unless their lawyers manages to do something amazing with support of community and other people who support Bitcoin and privacy.
It's one thing to care about privacy it's one other thing to advertise your business as helping to evade the laws of the country you reside in.
You have a US citizen enjoying his life in the States and then advertising how Russian oligarchs can bypass US sanctions by using his service, see the irony?
They are done for and you can see nobody is going to go out in the open and defend them.
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if the US would have wanted him
Such naive thinking... ::)
He literally said before several times that if anyone in future ever claims that he performed suicide, that is a lie.
Sure they wanted him dead, and not because of some stupid taxes charge but because he knew dirty things about them.
They started arresting developers, and one day they will come for everyone else...
He was a nutcase, there was nothing else about him.
Sure he was crazy, but what government is doing all the time is ''normal''. :P
It's one thing to care about privacy it's one other thing to advertise your business as helping to evade the laws of the country you reside in.
When laws became crazy it's not such a bad thing to evade them.
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Also, kind of interesting of them to mention this one:
(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/05/16/1Ia2m.png)
Every single sector of non-custodial crypto is a threat to Europol.
But instead of trying to understand it so that they can better catch the criminals in the act, they want to carpet-bomb the whole space.
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Such naive thinking... ::)
He literally said before several times that if anyone in future ever claims that he performed suicide, that is a lie.
Sure they wanted him dead, and not because of some stupid taxes charge but because he knew dirty things about them.
They started arresting developers, and one day they will come for everyone else...
Saylor has been arrested three times in the US, he was already deported once from Bermuda, they let him go and he ran away for 5 years, claiming he has...what?
Think for a moment, if you would know so much, if you would have such a fan base wouldn't you put all that info aside and have it released if something happened? If I knew something so important the first thing would be to post an ecrypted message here on the forum and then timelock the password for 1000 newspapers and 100 relatives, yet...nothing!
We're talking about a guy who when he saw a police car in his yard ran to the beach with a shovel dug a pit put a tarp over it and was found the next morning there after he nearly smoked himself with pot to death. Father of 47 children and ...penisless.... ;)
There are 12 000 deaths each year from people falling from a stair but god forbid a politician to die like that cause nobody would believe.
There are 700 000 suicides each year, 700 000 but no, once you're famous you can't suicide, they are all killed, right?
When laws became crazy it's not such a bad thing to evade them.
Oh no banning foreign people from a foreign nation that threatens you every day it will nuke your whole country to do business in your country and using your banks is crazy?