If you mention gold in a public space, I believe that 100% of people in that place will actually know what gold is, and they know that gold is a valuable asset that can be traded for real money, but if you mention bitcoin in the same public space, only about 80% of people or less will know what bitcoin really is. Some of those people may have heard about Bitcoin but may not have the proper knowledge about Bitcoin.
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?
Let's share ideas.
I would suggest...both gold and bitcoin.
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset
I would suggest...both gold and bitcoin.
Damn! you too fast! :DSo, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset
I agree 100% with Dr. Beer
do both.
In gold forums you read often of investors playing with cryptos and then putting the gains into gold.
Sometimes someone announces selling gold in order to buy cryptos, but then they get a lot of s**t thrown at them :D
The most important part of this story is that when you buy gold you buy bars and coins of which you become the sole legal owner.
Many people think they are invested in gold while all they have bought is some creative finance product.
Real estate is a great option! And it is not necessary to buy a whole "residential complex" at once - it is enough to buy 1-2 apartments, normal layout, at the very beginning of the development and after commissioning - to sell!
Real estate is a great option! And it is not necessary to buy a whole "residential complex" at once - it is enough to buy 1-2 apartments, normal layout, at the very beginning of the development and after commissioning - to sell!
This is interesting
Usually at investing in real estate one think of buying already finished, ready-to-get-used objects. It's rare to think of buying an object at the beginning of the construction work and selling it before it gets occupied.
Me, I would buy objects from distressed owners. You know, public auctions following insolvency proceedings.
Usually not many people participate to those auctions, and if you are lucky and have the chance of inform yourself about the object before the auction - which isn't easy - you can catch some good bargain.
Having both gold and bitcoin is good when you are rich but for a pleb like myself, bitcoin is the best because it is open for both the poor and the rich to invest. Unlike gold that is only the rich that can invest in it because of the cost to buy gold. Bitcoin can be bought in fraction with a small as $5 or$10, and bitcoin gives more profit than gold over time. I believe that as time passes by bitcoin will be known by many and the rate of adoption will increase which will also make the price of bitcoin to increase significantly.
Having both gold and bitcoin is good when you are rich but for a pleb like myself, bitcoin is the best because it is open for both the poor and the rich to invest. Unlike gold that is only the rich that can invest in it because of the cost to buy gold. Bitcoin can be bought in fraction with a small as $5 or$10, and bitcoin gives more profit than gold over time. I believe that as time passes by bitcoin will be known by many and the rate of adoption will increase which will also make the price of bitcoin to increase significantly.
There is a small nuance, I do not know how it is in other countries, but in my country, if you buy from the company-developer, conditionally when they are just beginning to prepare the foundation of the house, the square of which I buy an apartment, it is cheaper than when the "box" is already built on all floors. This is the main option to reduce investments in the primary market. After the box of the house is built, the price of the same apartment is already higher by about 20-30%. After 3 years, when selling such an apartment, gives a total profit of about 100-120%. That, to me, looks quite good even in comparison with gold and bitcoin.
But again I note - so works this scheme in my country, with our legislation and our real estate market. I assume that in other countries it may work differently
Gold is not a bad investment to start with, just as Bitcoin is also a very good choice of investment. You are right that Bitcoin investment is actually what anyone can go into, both the poor and the rich. For gold investment too, I think you can choose to buy some fraction of gold that is very light and has a small weight that can equal the amount you actually want to buy; for example, you can get it for $100 or even less. If you want to invest in gold, you can make inquiries from trusted gold dealers in your region, and you will find out more information. Also, there are some pieces of jewelry that have a lower quantity of gold, so they have less weight, and you can actually get one for $50, and when the price of gold goes up, you can resell it.
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?
Let's share ideas.
There is a small nuance, I do not know how it is in other countries, but in my country, if you buy from the company-developer, conditionally when they are just beginning to prepare the foundation of the house, the square of which I buy an apartment, it is cheaper than when the "box" is already built on all floors. This is the main option to reduce investments in the primary market. After the box of the house is built, the price of the same apartment is already higher by about 20-30%. After 3 years, when selling such an apartment, gives a total profit of about 100-120%. That, to me, looks quite good even in comparison with gold and bitcoin.
But again I note - so works this scheme in my country, with our legislation and our real estate market. I assume that in other countries it may work differently
Well I think in all countries it is similar because paying before the building is finished you are basically paying upfront, so it's normal that the price paid is less than the price of the finished object.
Basically you are financing the construction of the building, taking up the risk that the company - for example - go insolvent, or that for whatever reason the building doesn't get finished making you lose the invested money.
I have some physical gold and more bitcoin relative to the gold I own. I have gold because I like it, it has a nice colour, it is a classic store of value and you can touch it. Bitcoin you can't touch but it's easier to hold large amounts and send it far away.
I have some physical gold and more bitcoin relative to the gold I own. I have gold because I like it, it has a nice colour, it is a classic store of value and you can touch it. Bitcoin you can't touch but it's easier to hold large amounts and send it far away.
Gold too is easier to hold large amounts and send it far away, just do it through gold-backed stablecoins.
With kinesis (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=129595.0) for example transfer fees are 0,45% of the transferred amount.
Sending 100$ of gold costs 0,45$.
Sending 1.000$ costs 4,5$.
Transfer is very quick, either seconds or few minutes, they use a fork of the stellar blockchain.
So quicker than Bitcoin.
Gold is stored in 7 major gold trading hubs around the world and audited 4x/year by a major auditing firm, so everybody knows the gold backing the coins is there.
Buying/selling gold on the kinesis exchange costs 0,22%
I would probably choose Bitcoin because it is an innovative technology that is still undervalued and has huge growth potential. It is also a digital currency with a limited supply, which makes it more unique. Of course, gold is always in price and it is a physical asset with a long history of stability, but still I am for technology!I understand your perspective. In the last several years, Bitcoin has undoubtedly grown significantly, and its potential for future expansion is really intriguing. Furthermore, despite the lengthy history of gold as a safe haven investment, there is merit to the revolutionary qualities of cryptocurrencies. However, it's crucial to keep in mind that cryptocurrencies are still a relatively new and erratic kind of investment, so not everyone should do it.
In this thread I received an answer to the question that was bothering me, about kinesis!
Those. Kinesis Has real gold reserves that are sold within their system, and can be requested at any time in the form of real metal bars?
At the same time, the volume of assets in Gold and silver undergoes regular verification (audit) and there is official confirmation of the ownership of Kinesis as well as compliance with their obligations to customers, in ensuring their purchases of precious metals, with real reserves of gold/silver?
In this thread I received an answer to the question that was bothering me, about kinesis!
Those. Kinesis Has real gold reserves that are sold within their system, and can be requested at any time in the form of real metal bars?
hi Doctor
"Kinesis Has real gold reserves that are sold within their system?"
No.
Kinesis' gold reserves are not sold. They must back Kinesis' stablecoins (they are called KAU).
If kinesis would sell part of those reserves, KAUs wouldn't 100% gold-backed anymore.
"...can be requested at any time in the form of real metal bars?"
Yes.
It's called redemption: For example, you have 100 KAU. You let those be canceled in exchange for 100 grams of gold sent to you at home.
This is not buying/selling!:
You already owned 100 grams of gold through your 100 KAU, so you don't buy anything.
You only exchange your KAU for physical gold which you already owned.
It's only a change in storage: before redemption those 100 grams were stored in a vault of Kinesis, after redemption they are stored at your home.
It's NOT a change in ownership: those 100 grams were always yours.
Likewise, kinesis is not selling you anything!
In order to sell the seller needs to own what he sells.
Kinesis don't sell anything because those 100 grams of gold that they send you, were already yours.
Kinesis only stored them.
If you mention gold in a public space, I believe that 100% of people in that place will actually know what gold is, and they know that gold is a valuable asset that can be traded for real money, but if you mention bitcoin in the same public space, only about 80% of people or less will know what bitcoin really is. Some of those people may have heard about Bitcoin but may not have the proper knowledge about Bitcoin.
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?
Let's share ideas.
but for me bitcoin will not kill the gold market because it has a lot of physical applications in jewellery and industry that bitcoin doesn't have.
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?
Let's share ideas.
Bitcoin is a virtual currency whereas gold is a physical asset. Physical assets are never more risky especially if they were perishable raw materials there would be a lot of risk but gold is not a perishable raw material so it is not risky to invest here. On the other hand if you invest in bitcoin and if that investment is not at the right time then you will not get much profit even if you invest in it, on the other hand if you invest in bitcoin at the right time you will get much more profit than gold. But for the time being both gold and bitcoin are valuable investments so it would be wise to invest in both if you have a plan.
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?
Let's share ideas.
Gold is more popular than Bitcoin, and we know that gold has lower risks.
Bitcoin has a higher risk but more profit if we buy it when the price is low.
Imagine we both bought gold and bitcoin ten years ago, surely bitcoin was more profitable.
So, I think It's the reason why rich people that know crypto will invest in bitcoin , not in Gold.
that's the fact
So, I think It's the reason why rich people that know crypto will invest in bitcoin , not in Gold.
that's the fact
So, I think It's the reason why rich people that know crypto will invest in bitcoin , not in Gold.
that's the fact
Yes, and this is another fact
Monetary authorities all around the world - the Central Banks -, people who know a couple of things more than me and you about money, are accumulating gold, not bitcoin.
How about that as a fact :D
which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?If money is not a problem to you then buying both assets will diversify your investments. I love both assets so If given a chance to have them both then will probably hodl them. These assets are future proof so no need to worry about anything.
With the way inflation is going on in Bangladesh, investing in our local currency will not make any profit, but if I invest in Bitcoin or gold, I will have a chance of getting a lot of profit. Every day the value of money in my country is depreciating at the dollar rate, in this case if I buy bitcoins or gold and store it then there will be no possibility of devaluing my money. So I decided to invest in Bitcoin.which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?If money is not a problem to you then buying both assets will diversify your investments. I love both assets so If given a chance to have them both then will probably hodl them. These assets are future proof so no need to worry about anything.
So, I think It's the reason why rich people that know crypto will invest in bitcoin , not in Gold.
that's the fact
That is a wise choice to be honest. We are unsure of what our future will bring but given the current situationwe have an idea on how we can prepare for our future so I think these assets namely, Bitcoin, precious metals and real estate will surely give us the financial freedom we wanted in the long run.With the way inflation is going on in Bangladesh, investing in our local currency will not make any profit, but if I invest in Bitcoin or gold, I will have a chance of getting a lot of profit. Every day the value of money in my country is depreciating at the dollar rate, in this case if I buy bitcoins or gold and store it then there will be no possibility of devaluing my money. So I decided to invest in Bitcoin.which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?If money is not a problem to you then buying both assets will diversify your investments. I love both assets so If given a chance to have them both then will probably hodl them. These assets are future proof so no need to worry about anything.
Gold has been confirmed to be a safe haven, and bitcoin will soon be under this class. The three most valuable assets that are worth investing on to save your funds from depreciation is gold, bitcoin and real estate. These investments generate money over time and that is what we need to invest in. Real estate, and gold are not for the average or low class to invest in, but bitcoin brought the opportunity for all class of people to invest, and for this reason, I will take bitcoin over gold. I am not rich.That is a wise choice to be honest. We are unsure of what our future will bring but given the current situationwe have an idea on how we can prepare for our future so I think these assets namely, Bitcoin, precious metals and real estate will surely give us the financial freedom we wanted in the long run.With the way inflation is going on in Bangladesh, investing in our local currency will not make any profit, but if I invest in Bitcoin or gold, I will have a chance of getting a lot of profit. Every day the value of money in my country is depreciating at the dollar rate, in this case if I buy bitcoins or gold and store it then there will be no possibility of devaluing my money. So I decided to invest in Bitcoin.which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?If money is not a problem to you then buying both assets will diversify your investments. I love both assets so If given a chance to have them both then will probably hodl them. These assets are future proof so no need to worry about anything.
Gold has been confirmed to be a safe haven, and bitcoin will soon be under this class. The three most valuable assets that are worth investing on to save your funds from depreciation is gold, bitcoin and real estate. These investments generate money over time and that is what we need to invest in. Real estate, and gold are not for the average or low class to invest in, but bitcoin brought the opportunity for all class of people to invest, and for this reason, I will take bitcoin over gold. I am not rich.Totally agree with you mate, Bitcoin is all for one and one for all. All these assets generate passive income in the long run that is why Billionaires love them.
I meant exactly the possibility of redeeming real gold/silver for "virtual assets". This is a good indicator, and it means that this asset (token) has real and collateral, which stabilizes its value, and also does not allow to manipulate the market and consumers.
The higher they can invest is the bigger they can gain and businesses knows that and also gamblers are billionaires , they knew where and when to bet and knew when to take their money out and this is the problem from many small investors that keeps expecting price to gain when it may lose in the end.Gold has been confirmed to be a safe haven, and bitcoin will soon be under this class. The three most valuable assets that are worth investing on to save your funds from depreciation is gold, bitcoin and real estate. These investments generate money over time and that is what we need to invest in. Real estate, and gold are not for the average or low class to invest in, but bitcoin brought the opportunity for all class of people to invest, and for this reason, I will take bitcoin over gold. I am not rich.Totally agree with you mate, Bitcoin is all for one and one for all. All these assets generate passive income in the long run that is why Billionaires love them.
So, I think It's the reason why rich people that know crypto will invest in bitcoin , not in Gold.
that's the fact
Yes, and this is another fact
Monetary authorities all around the world - the Central Banks -, people who know a couple of things more than me and you about money, are accumulating gold, not bitcoin.
How about that as a fact :D
I have an assumption that the world financial system, at the beginning of the "cryptocurrency era" simply did not pay attention to this concept, and remained faithful to the "old school" - multi-currency baskets, gold, .....
Or at least they hoped that having total control over the financial world, easily and effortlessly "put in place a youngster. But then "something went wrong" ... :)
Now it is difficult to say whether they have or are running companies and wallets with stocks of cryptocurrencies. But I think now we will observe an interesting game on the market - on the one hand, bitcoin-ETF was launched where big players can play, and very successfully.
On the other hand, these players probably don't have so many cryptocurrency reserves to fully manipulate the market.
On the third side, there are "private" players who own cryptocurrencies and can influence this market, which is not pleasant for financial elites, as they used to consider themselves the inhabitants of the financial Olympus, and "mere mortals" should not be a hindrance for them.... But cryptoworld has "broken the scheme" here too :)
However, I've noticed a concerning trend: people are primarily driven by profit motives rather than a genuine interest in blockchain technology and its transformative potential.
It's ironic that blockchain technology was initially hailed as a potential game-changer, yet many individuals remain indifferent to its intricacies and ultimately value it solely based on financial gains ::)
3. In the long term from a pessimistic perspective, BTC Spot ETF could be a poison pill for BTC and crypto. Stay calm and let's look at it together.
Losing the historical mission of Bitcoin: In 2008, Satoshi Nakamoto introduced Bitcoin as a method for people to have the right to self-custody of money, not dependent on third parties, escaping the traditional financial model that has a lot of problems.
It is certain that both are very attractive investments with their own share. Gold has been used as an investment for longer, but with the development of the digital era, bitcoin has emerged, which is also an attractive investment.I would probably choose Bitcoin because it is an innovative technology that is still undervalued and has huge growth potential. It is also a digital currency with a limited supply, which makes it more unique. Of course, gold is always in price and it is a physical asset with a long history of stability, but still I am for technology!I understand your perspective. In the last several years, Bitcoin has undoubtedly grown significantly, and its potential for future expansion is really intriguing. Furthermore, despite the lengthy history of gold as a safe haven investment, there is merit to the revolutionary qualities of cryptocurrencies. However, it's crucial to keep in mind that cryptocurrencies are still a relatively new and erratic kind of investment, so not everyone should do it.
The three most valuable assets that are worth investing on to save your funds from depreciation is gold, bitcoin and real estate. These investments generate money over time and that is what we need to invest in.
Real estate, and gold are not for the average or low class to invest in, but bitcoin brought the opportunity for all class of people to invest, and for this reason, I will take bitcoin over gold. I am not rich.
The three most valuable assets that are worth investing on to save your funds from depreciation is gold, bitcoin and real estate. These investments generate money over time and that is what we need to invest in.
Hi Sim
real estate, gold and bitcoin, I like that!
The traditional partition was 30% real estate, 30% stocks, 30% gold.
I think they called it the jewish rule, or something like thatReal estate, and gold are not for the average or low class to invest in, but bitcoin brought the opportunity for all class of people to invest, and for this reason, I will take bitcoin over gold. I am not rich.
This has been the case until recently Sim,
but today we have - among others - gold-backed cryptos.
One of the benefits offered by gold-backed coins is their fractionality.
For example, one of the reason why the Indonesian gov is promoting Kinesis' gold-backed stablecoins in Indonesia is to give the opportunity to non-rich people to buy gold, as gold-backed cryptos - unlike physical gold - can be fractioned down.
What is the minimum amount of gold, or silver, I can purchase with Kinesis? (https://support.kinesis.money/hc/en-gb/articles/12355307874333-What-is-the-minimum-amount-of-gold-or-silver-I-can-purchase-with-Kinesis-)
"On the Kinesis Exchange, you can purchase as little as 0.00001 KAU and 0.00001 KAG"
Today 1 gram of gold = 66 $
0.00001 = 0,00066 $
The minimum amount requested to buy physical gold through Kinesis is 0,00066 $
"On the Kinesis Exchange, you can purchase as little as 0.00001 KAU and 0.00001 KAG"
Today 1 gram of gold = 66 $
0.00001 = 0,00066 $
The minimum amount requested to buy physical gold through Kinesis is 0,00066 $
I hold a good amount of silver. And btc. They are my primary holdings. Not a fan of holding gold. But it is a decent metal. It is less bulky than silver.
"On the Kinesis Exchange, you can purchase as little as 0.00001 KAU and 0.00001 KAG"
Today 1 gram of gold = 66 $
0.00001 = 0,00066 $
The minimum amount requested to buy physical gold through Kinesis is 0,00066 $
On one hand it's a great solution - a minimum entry threshold, allowing even low-income people to stock up a little at a time. This is very important for countries where the population does not have large incomes and is not able to immediately buy 10-100 grams of gold as an investment asset.
On the other hand, for example, I and my family bought 1 gram of gold and.... decided to turn it into real bullion and take it home. Yes I know that refineries produce bank bars from 1, 2, 2.5, 5 grams and then in multiples of 10. But I assume that Kinesis assets are most likely in large ingots, from 100 grams, which is easier, more convenient and cheaper to store.
Question - is there a minimum milestone for "withdrawal" of gold bought in the Kinesis network?
Hi doc
from the Tether Gold thread (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=315185.msg1472378#msg1472378)
6) Kinesis minimum redemption
Gold: 100 grams
Silver: 200 ounces
"Kinesis enables users to redeem as little as 100 grams of gold or 200 ounces of silver, with a fee of 0.45% + $100 USD + delivery costs."
Just as a comparison:
Tether Gold minimum redemption = 13,3 kilograms
Now it's my turn to ask: that 1 gram of gold that you bought, can you remember how much premium did you pay? More or less?
Premium is the difference between spot price (the official, international price) and the price that you actually pay to the seller.
For ex. this is today Bullionstar (https://www.bullionstar.com/buy/product/1gram-gold), a very good vendor based in Singapore
....
Hi Peter !
Thanks for your reply ! One issue that concerns me here is the volume of the minimum redemption is 100g, this at today's world market prices is about $6548 ($65.48 / gram). +100 dollars = 6648 Dollars. For people with a small income, and partially spend their income to buy these tokens (gold), according to your assumption - how long will it take until they can take 100 grams of gold ?
Hi Peter !
Thanks for your reply ! One issue that concerns me here is the volume of the minimum redemption is 100g, this at today's world market prices is about $6548 ($65.48 / gram). +100 dollars = 6648 Dollars. For people with a small income, and partially spend their income to buy these tokens (gold), according to your assumption - how long will it take until they can take 100 grams of gold ?
Good morning doc
Gold-backed stablecoins companies are not in the business of selling & shipping gold bars.
They don't aim to compete with bullion sellers (like Bullionstar) or local coin shops.
Stablecoins' users and investors redeeming coins is obviously an exception.
People don't buy gold-backed cryptos in order to bring home some piece of gold.
So if someone wants to buy and bring home some piece of gold gold-backed SC are not the natural way.
And by itself I answer your question: if I got it right, honestly - I can't say. Yes, I have bank bars, though not 100 grams, but I have :) I bought in banks, several times "for the future", and frankly speaking I was not interested in this "difference"
And by itself I answer your question: if I got it right, honestly - I can't say. Yes, I have bank bars, though not 100 grams, but I have :) I bought in banks, several times "for the future", and frankly speaking I was not interested in this "difference"
You rich man you :D
Premium is the difference between the value of the gold item (= spot price, official, international price) and the price paid to the seller.
Usually, the smaller the gold item, the higher (in percentage) the premium.
Since gold-backed SC companies buy standard investment size bars (400 ounces = 12,5 kg) users can buy their SC at spot. No premium.
But you must consider not only the buying but also the selling moment.
Here too gold-backed SC offer an advantage vs. gold dealers (and banks... local coin shops... etc): when you go to sell your gold item, the gold dealer won’t pay you at spot. Usually they pay you under spot.
Instead, when you convert your gold stablecoin into fiat, you get the spot price.
So if the premium you paid was, say, 10% (not unusual), deploying the same amount of money through a gold-backed SC you’d own now 10% more gold.
On a 1g bar, that’s... 1 decigram more :D
It is more correct to say that I am not rich, but I managed to become richer after I converted unnecessary spending into investments, which I wish everyone ! :)Saving from what is not needed and saving in the form of investment is certainly something that is very appropriate. It's easy to say but not easy in practice to make savings that can be invested. All of this, in time, will be able to provide added value to the life you live. Of course, you could, as you say, "succeed in becoming richer.".
And thank you for describing everything in such detail, I can say - not everyone understands this scheme.
Well and as a result, to the last phrase, there is a saying, I do not know how accurately I can convey the meaning, but it is very useful I will try to adapt "a cent - a dollar saves"
It is more correct to say that I am not rich, but I managed to become richer after I converted unnecessary spending into investments, which I wish everyone ! :)Saving from what is not needed and saving in the form of investment is certainly something that is very appropriate. It's easy to say but not easy in practice to make savings that can be invested. All of this, in time, will be able to provide added value to the life you live. Of course, you could, as you say, "succeed in becoming richer.".
And thank you for describing everything in such detail, I can say - not everyone understands this scheme.
Well and as a result, to the last phrase, there is a saying, I do not know how accurately I can convey the meaning, but it is very useful I will try to adapt "a cent - a dollar saves"
By the way, I had an interesting thought. Let's imagine that 5 years have passed, for example, the world has accepted cryptocurrency, and let's assume that it has replaced fiat currency. I.e. cryptocurrency has replaced dollars, rupees, yuan and other euros :) Let's call it for example BitcoinWorldCoin.
As we understand from classical world economics - a currency with constant deflation is NOT good for the economy. I will not describe why, we can put it in a separate topic, as it requires a lot of explanations. But for interest you can ask your economists, they will confirm this idea.
What is going on? The world is forced to find ways to stabilize the "price" of BitcoinWorldCoin. And what happens ? That's right - BitcoinMicroCoin, becomes unattractive from an investment point of view. And loses its appeal. Yes, as a means of accumulation and savings - it will still be in demand among ordinary people, but large investors will leave it - why do they need something that is stable in price. Another option - Bitcoin World Coin still has an inflationary component, contrary to the essence of Bitcoin World Coin replacement of other currencies.
In both the first and the second scenario investment attractive will be ... GOLD ! :)
Your opinion ?
By the way, I had an interesting thought. Let's imagine that 5 years have passed, for example, the world has accepted cryptocurrency, and let's assume that it has replaced fiat currency. I.e. cryptocurrency has replaced dollars, rupees, yuan and other euros :) Let's call it for example BitcoinWorldCoin.
As we understand from classical world economics - a currency with constant deflation is NOT good for the economy. I will not describe why, we can put it in a separate topic, as it requires a lot of explanations. But for interest you can ask your economists, they will confirm this idea.
What is going on? The world is forced to find ways to stabilize the "price" of BitcoinWorldCoin. And what happens ? That's right - BitcoinMicroCoin, becomes unattractive from an investment point of view. And loses its appeal. Yes, as a means of accumulation and savings - it will still be in demand among ordinary people, but large investors will leave it - why do they need something that is stable in price. Another option - Bitcoin World Coin still has an inflationary component, contrary to the essence of Bitcoin World Coin replacement of other currencies.
In both the first and the second scenario investment attractive will be ... GOLD ! :)
Your opinion ?
My opinion is that you really don't like your national currency as you constantly phantasise about replacing fiat currencies with cryptocurrencies ;D
I'm not enough sophisticated to be able to say something meaningful to your question.
The first thing I do is to keep separated the money/currency from the investment part, otherwise it becomes too complicated :D
I'm more interested in the money part, because sound money for a society is more important than good investments.
People - ordinary people - need sound money i.e. a currency that keep its purchasing power over time and don't change it.
Stability is the opposite both of inflation and of deflation.
10 years ago 5 apples costed 1 €
Last year 5 apples costed 1 €
Today 5 apples cost 1 €
Next year 5 apples will cost 1 €
In 10 years 5 apples will cost 1 €
People need "sound" money. Good money. A store of value.
People need stability, predictability.
We are not talking about investments, we are talking about money.
History shows that the the most stable currency is gold.
Gold per se is not an investment, it is money. It becomes an investment only within an unhealthy monetary environment where fiat currencies loose purchasing power.
It's like the Swiss franc: the chf is not an investment, it's a fiat currency, but people around the world - particularly in Europe - "invest" in Swiss francs because their national currencies loose purchasing power.
If you mention gold in a public space, I believe that 100% of people in that place will actually know what gold is, and they know that gold is a valuable asset that can be traded for real money, but if you mention bitcoin in the same public space, only about 80% of people or less will know what bitcoin really is. Some of those people may have heard about Bitcoin but may not have the proper knowledge about Bitcoin.I want to add that amongst those 80% there will be most people who only know about the negative side of Bitcoin because that's how the government portray Bitocin to the public. And those people think that the government is right and Bitcoin is the enemy of humanity.
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?Why not both? I will consider choosing both because both of them provide us with great opportunities. One is slow but the profit is almost guaranteed and the market is not that much volatile. And other is volatile for sure but also gives us great profit in the long run.
And about "stable money". The problem is that stable money, is not very useful for the economy. The problem with "stable money" is that it stops the development of the economy, investment.... The essence of the problem, very simplistically - Why invest / develop or build a business (which saves from controlled small inflation), if nothing will happen with money !?
And about "stable money". The problem is that stable money, is not very useful for the economy. The problem with "stable money" is that it stops the development of the economy, investment.... The essence of the problem, very simplistically - Why invest / develop or build a business (which saves from controlled small inflation), if nothing will happen with money !?
Stable money is a currency whose purchasing power is stable.
This is mostly useful for the life of ordinary people and hence for the economy.
The reason why BTC isn't used yet as everyday money is because of its volatility i.e. its instability.
This 5 years chart compares gold with BTC
(https://i.ibb.co/nfN4Qsk/3.png)
Ordinary people and businesses don't want to carry the risks connected to volatility.
When they receive money - when they get paid for something they did or sold etc... - they want to become neither speculators nor investors.
They just want to get paid and they want to know what that amount of money will be able to purchase next week, next month, next year...
They prefer predictability to the chance of big gains.
They need that kind of financial security.
This is what gold offers, this is what BTC doesn't offer.
BTC offers the chance of increasing money i.e. BTC is a good investment, but functioning as a good investment doesn't necessarily imply functioning as good money.
I want to add that amongst those 80% there will be most people who only know about the negative side of Bitcoin because that's how the government portray Bitocin to the public. And those people think that the government is right and Bitcoin is the enemy of humanity.
And this is the matrix we are in right now.
Sometimes having too much knowledge or the right knowledge could be a curse. Because people around you are so much in the matrix already, you can't take them out of it and teach them what the reality or the truth is. It is so easy to make people believe is something these days. And the government knows it very well. They use that to control the people.
I want to add that amongst those 80% there will be most people who only know about the negative side of Bitcoin because that's how the government portray Bitocin to the public. And those people think that the government is right and Bitcoin is the enemy of humanity.
And this is the matrix we are in right now.
Yeah mate,
That's been on the minds of almost everyone in the world, friends, they've only heard something bad about bitcoin and crypto.There has been a lot of negative information since Bitcoin was launched. Governments in several countries are also against bitcoin, banning bitcoin which causes their citizens to be hesitant and afraid to invest in bitcoin.
Hi Peter !
I heard you. Then the question is: what is the key goal of the project ?
Look, it turns out as follows: the population was given the opportunity through some convenient and accessible mechanism, to make some savings of their funds, and what is important - even increase their income, through the purchase of a minimum amount of gold. Great. But to get this accumulation, you can only under certain conditions - it is the withdrawal of savings, with a volume of 100 grams.
I will simulate the situation, of course, I warn you right away, I specially "distort" some indicators.
For example, the average income of the head of the family - 500 dollars (in terms of local currency). He has a family that he supports. Children are growing up, his wife brings up the children, his parents are still "on the balance sheet". He puts aside 50 dollars every month to buy gold in this system. I.e. 450 dollars remains in the family's budget and the prospect of benefiting from investing in gold.
According to my estimates - it turns out, in this scheme, he will be able to withdraw, sell and get fiat currency FOR LIFE, somewhere in: $6548 / 50 = 131 months or almost 11 years. Taking into account the commission and the cost of withdrawal - 11 years and 3 months. Until then, he CANNOT get his funds. And he will get the amount equivalent to the value of gold in DOLLAR at that time (the gold market is valued in dollars). Here is the math problem - is it exactly profitable, or have I not understood how the system works ?
....
the second one :D
People don't buy gold-backed cryptos in order to bring home some piece of gold.
If someone wants to buy and bring home some bullion, they go to gold dealers, either locally or online.
Gold dealers sell bullion.
Gold-backed cryptos companies sell gold-backed cryptos.
„the population was given the opportunity ... But to get this accumulation, you can only under certain conditions - it is the withdrawal of savings, with a volume of 100 grams“
Why?
After buying 1 KAU one is the owner of 1 gram of gold.
One doesn’t need to redeem (withdraw) it in order to get that accumulation i.e. to become owner of that gold.
"According to my estimates ... 11 years and 3 months. Until then, he CANNOT get his funds."
Of course he can.
If he has a Kinesis account, he can sell his KAUs on the Kinesis exchange (https://kinesis.money/kinesis-exchange/) vs. whatever currency is available on that exchange.
Or he can open an account on exchanges where kinesis currencies get traded, and do the same.
"And he will get the amount equivalent to the value of gold in DOLLAR at that time (the gold market is valued in dollars)."
No. Indonesians will get the amount equivalent to the value of gold in rupee.
If I sell gold I receive €
If you go tomorrow to the bank and sell your gold you are only interested in the gold price in the currency of your country.
You don’t care about the $ price of gold.
Then a couple more questions :)
1. Ok, everything is clear with the “withdrawal” of gold, in general it’s a login. If a token is backed by gold, it is essentially a virtual gold coin and this eliminates many questions. But there is another question :) What is the liquidity of this token? What am I talking about?
For example, today I bought 1 gram of gold, the price of gold on the world market (hereinafter all prices are conditional, for ease of calculation) - for 1 gram, let it be 60 dollars (rate 15,600 rupees / dollar). The purchase price in rupiah is 936,000 rupees. For example, 3 years have passed. The price of gold on the market is, say, 100 dollars/*gram, and the rupee is 20,000 rupees/dollar.
Can I sell this gold-backed token at the current price per gram? And get 2,000,000 rupees?
2. "You don't care about the $ price of gold." - on the one hand, yes, but we understand that the WORLD price of gold is formed in the dollar, and the price in Indonesia also has a direct connection with this price in the dollar. Yes, the public will not get a dollar, but the dollar price affects the rupee price.
Then a couple more questions :)
1. Ok, everything is clear with the “withdrawal” of gold, in general it’s a login. If a token is backed by gold, it is essentially a virtual gold coin and this eliminates many questions. But there is another question :) What is the liquidity of this token? What am I talking about?
For example, today I bought 1 gram of gold, the price of gold on the world market (hereinafter all prices are conditional, for ease of calculation) - for 1 gram, let it be 60 dollars (rate 15,600 rupees / dollar). The purchase price in rupiah is 936,000 rupees. For example, 3 years have passed. The price of gold on the market is, say, 100 dollars/*gram, and the rupee is 20,000 rupees/dollar.
Can I sell this gold-backed token at the current price per gram? And get 2,000,000 rupees?
2. "You don't care about the $ price of gold." - on the one hand, yes, but we understand that the WORLD price of gold is formed in the dollar, and the price in Indonesia also has a direct connection with this price in the dollar. Yes, the public will not get a dollar, but the dollar price affects the rupee price.
Hi doc,
"everything is clear with the “withdrawal” of gold"
I understand what you mean but maybe other people don't, so it's better to use the proper term, redemption, in order to avoid misunderstandings.
With stablecoins backed by x: you ask for x --> x exits the system --> the stablecoin must be canceled otherwise there would be a stablecoin in the system without backing.
This process is called redemption.
It concerns not only gold-backed SC but every kind of SC as long as they are backed by something.
"If a token is backed by gold, it is essentially a virtual gold coin"
Virtual gold coin... it's too generic for my ears :D
KAUs are legal title of gold ownership recorded on the blockchain.
"For example, today I bought 1 gram of gold, the price of gold on the world market (hereinafter all prices are conditional, for ease of calculation) - for 1 gram, let it be 60 dollars (rate 15,600 rupees / dollar). The purchase price in rupiah is 936,000 rupees. For example, 3 years have passed. The price of gold on the market is, say, 100 dollars/*gram, and the rupee is 20,000 rupees/dollar.
Can I sell this gold-backed token at the current price per gram? And get 2,000,000 rupees?"
Of course
It's not that you can, rather you don't have another choice :D
When you make a transaction, only the exchange rates of the moment of that transaction apply.
But one more question - is this system available for non-residents of Indonesia ? :) After receiving from you detailed answers to all questions that I was interested in, I would love to "participate" in this system ! If it's not a secret - are you a resident of Indonesia ? Or do you use this system ?
But one more question - is this system available for non-residents of Indonesia ? :) After receiving from you detailed answers to all questions that I was interested in, I would love to "participate" in this system ! If it's not a secret - are you a resident of Indonesia ? Or do you use this system ?
Europe here! ... more precisely... eurozone :D
I have a kinesis account, of course. I haven't used their app nor their virtual debit card though. I'm not that sophisticated...
I use them only for buying and storing: compared to local dealers and local banks, their spreads are extremely low, and compared to ETFs, there are no storage fees and their metal stocks get regularly audited.
You want to open an account, go to their website and sign in. It's free.
Actually I'd advise everybody who is not allergic to KYC to do it. Sign in and look around, maybe you'll like it.
Maybe you'll find something useful, who knows.
A couple of days ago a user commented on the Kinesis exchange (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=310443.msg1500192#msg1500192). I hope he will follow up.
If you open an account I'm interested in your impression - bad or good is irrelevant.
If you click on the affiliate link in my signature you'll land on their sign-in page, there are no downsides in using my affiliate link.
Thank you again for the very interesting and useful information. I’ll try to register this week, see what the service offers to non-residents of the country, conditions, opportunities. After that I will publish my report here. Well, I’ll try to buy gold - I’ll invest in the economy of the country, which I really liked, at least as a tourist :)
Well, if everything works out, I can periodically report on the balance and the results of transactions with tokenized gold :)
Thank you again for the very interesting and useful information. I’ll try to register this week, see what the service offers to non-residents of the country, conditions, opportunities. After that I will publish my report here. Well, I’ll try to buy gold - I’ll invest in the economy of the country, which I really liked, at least as a tourist :)
Well, if everything works out, I can periodically report on the balance and the results of transactions with tokenized gold :)
Hi doc,
....
That said, it would be great if you just open an account for fun and then report here your first impressions.
Very curious me
I hear their support is good - in case you have problems with KYC - but I don't know whether they support your national language
The essence of the project - A large agricultural holding with 2000 hectares of land, attracts investment in business development through its token. In essence, each token is a "digital share". Entry threshold - from 1USDT. I myself checked the project for a long time before investing. Since February 2023, I have been investing, traveling, checking the work, and getting to know the owners.
The scheme is extremely simple. On each token, once a quarter is charged 75% of the net income of the agroholding. The amount of dividends per 1 token = total net income of the company for the quarter / total amount of tokens sold.
They keep 25% of the net profit for themselves. The basis of the business is industrial greenhouses, currently about 20 pcs. Now they are developing a mushroom business - built and put into operation, growing mycelium. In the plans - increasing greenhouse areas, as well as the development of "vertical" cultivation (already purchased equipment). At the above link - my live photo reports. Perhaps also interested :)
Registered on the exchange. Registered. Passed verification. There were no restrictions, at least for Ukraine. Very nice and fast interface, convenient registration/verification system.
Registered on the exchange. Registered. Passed verification. There were no restrictions, at least for Ukraine. Very nice and fast interface, convenient registration/verification system.
Happy to hear that
I have an account only with kinesis so I can't compare it with other companies.
I think the most interesting part for you will be the exchange
The essence of the project - A large agricultural holding with 2000 hectares of land, attracts investment in business development through its token. In essence, each token is a "digital share". Entry threshold - from 1USDT. I myself checked the project for a long time before investing. Since February 2023, I have been investing, traveling, checking the work, and getting to know the owners.
The scheme is extremely simple. On each token, once a quarter is charged 75% of the net income of the agroholding. The amount of dividends per 1 token = total net income of the company for the quarter / total amount of tokens sold.
They keep 25% of the net profit for themselves. The basis of the business is industrial greenhouses, currently about 20 pcs. Now they are developing a mushroom business - built and put into operation, growing mycelium. In the plans - increasing greenhouse areas, as well as the development of "vertical" cultivation (already purchased equipment). At the above link - my live photo reports. Perhaps also interested :)
I'm interested in the "digital share" part.
This is not crowdfunding - as in the latter, I think, one doesn't expect a return.
This is, as you rightly define it, something like a company share.
I opened a thread about the benefits of cryptocurrencies for society. I see so many crypto people here consider cryptocurrencies only as a way to make money, I'm rather focused on how cryptos can improve society.
Beside trading, what's the point of cryptos for ordinary people and businesses? (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=315042.0)
Could you go over there and share this experience?
Why did they choose to use blockchain?
What are the advantages of using a token? instead of asking for a bank credit?
Will they pay the "dividends" using a crypto too?
Do they plan to use blockchain only for financial transactions or in other ways too?
You can copy this post and paste it over in that thread, together with your reply
After we managed to get rid of such investors and their money, the owners made a decision, and turned their eyes to the scheme that was realized.
After we managed to get rid of such investors and their money, the owners made a decision, and turned their eyes to the scheme that was realized.
Thanks doc, just a quick note
I've seen you referring to your project using the word "scheme".
I'm not an English native speaker but I think that word has a bad connotation. A scheme is something mischievous, a cheating plan, like in "Ponzi scheme".
I'd use "structure", or something else
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?
Gold has always been one of the best assets to have. Many countries have also been holding gold as a reserve. It has always been considered as a reliable asset. There is no match between gold and bitcoin. Because bitcoin is quite new, a lot of people have not heard about it yet. So Bitcoin has a long way to go to be considered a safe asset.Gold is indeed very good for long-term storage, but do we realize that gold is a very ancient currency? Gold has been around since the time of the pharaohs, even long before the glory of the pharaohs, gold has been used until now gold is still widely used and is still an entity with a price. selling very expensively, the problem is, what is the total supply of gold in the world? Can gold be created again? Why does gold have such a high selling price if it can be regenerated?
Yeah that is why it has huge which is the highest market capitalization in the history as it has been used in jewelries, electronics, currency and more. It's usage and importance I mean demand to humans is what makes it expensive even if it has also huge supply.Gold has always been one of the best assets to have. Many countries have also been holding gold as a reserve. It has always been considered as a reliable asset. There is no match between gold and bitcoin. Because bitcoin is quite new, a lot of people have not heard about it yet. So Bitcoin has a long way to go to be considered a safe asset.Gold is indeed very good for long-term storage, but do we realize that gold is a very ancient currency? Gold has been around since the time of the pharaohs, even long before the glory of the pharaohs, gold has been used until now gold is still widely used and is still an entity with a price. selling very expensively, the problem is, what is the total supply of gold in the world? Can gold be created again? Why does gold have such a high selling price if it can be regenerated?
Gold is indeed very good for long-term storage, but do we realize that gold is a very ancient currency?
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?Life and its investment go with what we know of more than the other.
Let's share ideas.
So, my question is, for those of you that actually have good knowledge about Bitcoin and gold, which will you love to invest in, and what is your reason for choosing the asset?Life and its investment go with what we know of more than the other.
Let's share ideas.
Bitcoin and gold, someone can choose to invest in one, or both, or forget about investing in both, or choose another investment approach because of the knowledge they have of one better than the other.
As a bitcoin believer, I would prefer to have my investment done in bitcoin than in gold. Why I am doing that, is because of the future profits I stand to gain, hodling bitcoin for long. I can make thousands of dollars in gains by hodling bitcoin for at least 4 years.
For gold, can I make such gains? The gold investors will tell us that if they can make thousands of dollars in gains within a space of 4 years compared to bitcoin. That's why people ought to invest in what they know more than the other to avoid making wrong investment moves.
ahh this is misleading.
just cherry pick dates and gold looks decent with btc looking like shit or vice versa.
April 2021 btc 67.1k
May 2024 btc 66.8k
April 2021 gold 1759
May 2024 gold 2343
see above gold smoked btc in that that time frame
but
may 2021 btc 37,1k
May 2024 btc 66.8k
may 2021 gold 1852
may 2024 gold 2343
btc Clearly wins.
so saying one is better than the other based on past history is just about picking spots to compare
Gold has always been one of the best assets to have. Many countries have also been holding gold as a reserve. It has always been considered as a reliable asset. There is no match between gold and bitcoin. Because bitcoin is quite new, a lot of people have not heard about it yet. So Bitcoin has a long way to go to be considered a safe asset.The world is getting to know bitcoin as a good asset and that is why ETF has been launched in some countries this year in order for people to buy bitcoin and keep it in their custody as this will make a lot of people to have easy access to bitcoin, which will increase the value of bitcoin. I will go for bitcoin because its bull run is every four years, while gold is every ten years. This shows that bitcoin gives higher profit over time than gold. You should be marveled how bitcoin that was created recently have now gain the attention of many government because of her value.
If we compare bitcoin and gold for investing, of course as crypto lovers we will choose bitcoin because it will bring greater profits than gold. but the older generation still believes in gold, because they don't understand crypto. Bitcoin ETFs are already making bitcoin expensive and reaching ATH before the halving, this is something extraordinary.Gold has always been one of the best assets to have. Many countries have also been holding gold as a reserve. It has always been considered as a reliable asset. There is no match between gold and bitcoin. Because bitcoin is quite new, a lot of people have not heard about it yet. So Bitcoin has a long way to go to be considered a safe asset.The world is getting to know bitcoin as a good asset and that is why ETF has been launched in some countries this year in order for people to buy bitcoin and keep it in their custody as this will make a lot of people to have easy access to bitcoin, which will increase the value of bitcoin. I will go for bitcoin because its bull run is every four years, while gold is every ten years. This shows that bitcoin gives higher profit over time than gold. You should be marveled how bitcoin that was created recently have now gain the attention of many government because of her value.