Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Further Discussions => Economics , Sociology & Politics => Topic started by: admin on February 25, 2024, 09:42:39 PM
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That was funny but it still makes sense. Basically, the message was that the Government take back the money they printed through citizen taxes in order to keep the value of the currency up. It's use to keep fooling the citizens that inflation is under control. The cycle of collecting high taxes also allows the Government to keep printing fiats and fund military expansions in other countries.
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We all know that taxes will be used to fund the government but the only problem here is that instead of spending it on something like infrastructure projects for the betterness of the country, corrupt politicians used it for their own personal interest including the justice system, law enforcers and government agencies. Though not all of them are involved in this unlawful act but yeah that is where our taxes go.
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We all know that taxes will be used to fund the government but the only problem here is that instead of spending it on something like infrastructure projects for the betterness of the country, corrupt politicians used it for their own personal interest including the justice system, law enforcers and government agencies. Though not all of them are involved in this unlawful act but yeah that is where our taxes go.
that is why sometimes People in my country tries to prevent paying taxes by not telling the exact capital and income , because of the government attitude to corrupting the collected taxes , not mentioning also those from gambling area that also runs by the government .
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But answering the question literally , taxes was imposed even in the early years of the world that this is peoples obligation for the government .
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We all know that taxes will be used to fund the government but the only problem here is that instead of spending it on something like infrastructure projects for the betterness of the country, corrupt politicians used it for their own personal interest including the justice system, law enforcers and government agencies. Though not all of them are involved in this unlawful act but yeah that is where our taxes go.
that is why sometimes People in my country tries to prevent paying taxes by not telling the exact capital and income , because of the government attitude to corrupting the collected taxes , not mentioning also those from gambling area that also runs by the government .
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But answering the question literally , taxes was imposed even in the early years of the world that this is peoples obligation for the government .
It looks like neither of you watched the video. I suggest you do because President Nayib offered a different perspective. What I got is that he's implying that it's not needed because they keep on printing money to fund to so called infrastructures and other Government services.
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We all know that taxes will be used to fund the government but the only problem here is that instead of spending it on something like infrastructure projects for the betterness of the country, corrupt politicians used it for their own personal interest including the justice system, law enforcers and government agencies. Though not all of them are involved in this unlawful act but yeah that is where our taxes go.
that is why sometimes People in my country tries to prevent paying taxes by not telling the exact capital and income , because of the government attitude to corrupting the collected taxes , not mentioning also those from gambling area that also runs by the government .
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But answering the question literally , taxes was imposed even in the early years of the world that this is peoples obligation for the government .
It looks like neither of you watched the video. I suggest you do because President Nayib offered a different perspective. What I got is that he's implying that it's not needed because they keep on printing money to fund to so called infrastructures and other Government services.
I already watched that video right after admin posted it but I did not post a reply right away, just got the thought of it in relation to what is currently happening in my country since topic is all about taxes and corruptions. I just forgot to include in my country on the highlighted text on my previous reply sorry for that.
Anyways, I like this part here at 19:50 on that video.
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We all know that taxes will be used to fund the government but the only problem here is that instead of spending it on something like infrastructure projects for the betterness of the country, corrupt politicians used it for their own personal interest including the justice system, law enforcers and government agencies. Though not all of them are involved in this unlawful act but yeah that is where our taxes go.
that is why sometimes People in my country tries to prevent paying taxes by not telling the exact capital and income , because of the government attitude to corrupting the collected taxes , not mentioning also those from gambling area that also runs by the government .
__________________________________
But answering the question literally , taxes was imposed even in the early years of the world that this is peoples obligation for the government .
It looks like neither of you watched the video. I suggest you do because President Nayib offered a different perspective. What I got is that he's implying that it's not needed because they keep on printing money to fund to so called infrastructures and other Government services.
+1 for actually watching the video before commenting on it
;D
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before i opened this thread i was already remembring what Bukele said in his speech about why should we pay tax when they can print money. this guy is revolutionary, he changed the country to one of the safest as he claimed. i'm not from El Salvador but we do have this kind of president once in my country, the liberal party is just way too strong here.
i'm not against paying taxes though, i think we need to contritbute as a citizen but i hope they really put the money at work to make the country better. we put the politicians in place but they are not serving well. instead they make laws that punishes people.
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Re: Why do we pay taxes?
As a citizen of a country, citizens have certain responsibilities and duties towards the country and the government, one of the main of which is to pay taxes regularly. A state requires some capital to maintain order and good governance and to maintain foreign cooperation and trade, one of the main sources of which is revenue or taxation. These taxes are used by governments to control their trade agreements with different countries. Moreover, the state treasury is definitely needed to maintain the economy of a country without this tax, the government of a country cannot manage its country properly.
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before i opened this thread i was already remembring what Bukele said in his speech about why should we pay tax when they can print money. this guy is revolutionary, he changed the country to one of the safest as he claimed. i'm not from El Salvador but we do have this kind of president once in my country, the liberal party is just way too strong here.
i'm not against paying taxes though, i think we need to contritbute as a citizen but i hope they really put the money at work to make the country better. we put the politicians in place but they are not serving well instead they make laws that punishes people.
This is what gets me aside from those statement President Nayib has said that government can print money out of thin air so why do we need to pay taxes?
I think inflation is one reason why government in a specific country do not have plans to print too much money or else it will become worthless.
the real problem is that you pay high taxes only to uphold the illusion that you are funding the government which you are not
Meaning the government is fooling it's own people right? Why do they do that? Maybe some kind of control.
I pay taxes, you pay taxes, most of us pay taxes and I don't think there is a problem with that but the main drawback here is on how our taxes are spent in our own country which I am referring to my first reply on this thread. The corrupt misused these taxes for their own personal interests and this is the time we will be having our disappointment with the system. Lucky for the people of El Salvador because their leader has already found a solution to this global problem.
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Taxes are our obligation, not to the government, but to the citizens of our own country. "The state has no money of its own, the state has only taxes" - a phrase not mine, but very accurate. It is we, the taxpayers, who form the budget of the state. From which everything else is financed - from social programs to ensuring the country's defense capability. Yes, we do not like to pay a lot of taxes. But there is "the other side of the coin" - the less we pay in taxes, the more the state is forced to print unsecured money, the poorer we become. The worse the social programs are for our pensioners, the poor, the disabled.
The only nuance is how effectively the state manages this budget
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Taxes are our obligation, not to the government, but to the citizens of our own country. "The state has no money of its own, the state has only taxes" - a phrase not mine, but very accurate. It is we, the taxpayers, who form the budget of the state. From which everything else is financed - from social programs to ensuring the country's defense capability. Yes, we do not like to pay a lot of taxes. But there is "the other side of the coin" - the less we pay in taxes, the more the state is forced to print unsecured money, the poorer we become. The worse the social programs are for our pensioners, the poor, the disabled.
The only nuance is how effectively the state manages this budget
well if the money they print is sent to ukraine and not for a program to help the homeless in your country, that's really a big problem. and this is the argument of the people in US not just from Bukele. this is the kind of policy that will make the people revolt.
the money given by the people are to be given back to them in the form of services form the government. lets say people keeping the peace. and some road constructions for example or collecting the garbage. everybody happy in this situation but if the money goes somewhere else its an issue.
and the less payers will pay tax and the government should not blame it to the people.
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Taxes are our obligation, not to the government, but to the citizens of our own country. "The state has no money of its own, the state has only taxes" - a phrase not mine, but very accurate. It is we, the taxpayers, who form the budget of the state. From which everything else is financed - from social programs to ensuring the country's defense capability. Yes, we do not like to pay a lot of taxes. But there is "the other side of the coin" - the less we pay in taxes, the more the state is forced to print unsecured money, the poorer we become. The worse the social programs are for our pensioners, the poor, the disabled.
The only nuance is how effectively the state manages this budget
well if the money they print is sent to ukraine and not for a program to help the homeless in your country, that's really a big problem. and this is the argument of the people in US not just from Bukele. this is the kind of policy that will make the people revolt.
the money given by the people are to be given back to them in the form of services form the government. lets say people keeping the peace. and some road constructions for example or collecting the garbage. everybody happy in this situation but if the money goes somewhere else its an issue.
and the less payers will pay tax and the government should not blame it to the people.
A very erroneous opinion :)
I will explain - aid to Ukraine is not money printing, it is aid to the state, the security of which the USA and Britain guaranteed according to the Budapest Memorandum. And the fight against the world terrorist is supported by other countries, realizing the danger of what is happening.
If we take the USA as an example, each citizen has paid several dozens of dollars in taxes. The rest of the money remained inside the USA, because the state order for arms is a payment to the manufacturers of the USA, and these means remain in the USA. So your assumption is wrong :)
Regarding the idea that "money should be returned" - I absolutely agree with you. But you should realize that this process is actually underway. Only while you are able to work, you don't notice their impact on you so much. But when your ability and earning power diminishes, the more you will notice the taxes that others pay. While we work - we pay for those who can no longer support themselves. Then we take their place and the younger ones replace us.
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Citizens have their duties which they are to carry out to enable the country to grow, and at the same time, the government also have their duties to carry out to enable the citizens to be happy. One of the duty of a citizen is to pay tax, and one of the duty of the government is to provide job for its citizens. The money that the citizens use to pay tax, is suppose to be used to develop the country, but it is not so these days, because of corrupt leaders that are after their own selfish desires. This is why citizens are not happy to pay their taxes anymore, since the money is not used for the right purposes, but if the money is used accordingly, why wouldn't anyone be happy to pay his tax for the country's development.
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This is what gets me aside from those statement President Nayib has said that government can print money out of thin air so why do we need to pay taxes?
I think inflation is one reason why government in a specific country do not have plans to print too much money or else it will become worthless.
Here's my analogy on this:
You're familiar with the buy back and burn program of various crypto projects right? It's almost the same with the Government issuing newly printed fiats, then collecting them back through taxes. The process is controlling the fiat in circulation, thereby controlling inflation.
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the money given by the people are to be given back to them in the form of services form the government. lets say people keeping the peace. and some road constructions for example or collecting the garbage. everybody happy in this situation but if the money goes somewhere else its an issue.
Ain't no way the US just giving those billions of fiat (printed out of thin air) without getting anything in return ;D
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What I got is that he's implying that it's not needed because they keep on printing money to fund to so called infrastructures and other Government services.
President Nayib is right. Taxation was invented when some form of gold standard existed, before national currencies could be produced at will by Govs and Central Banks.
The only way for the gov to finance their expenses was to get money from their citizens - or from abroad, through international agreements, international trade, war, colonialism etc...
With the abolition of the gold standard and the introduction of fiat currencies produced at will, taxation becomes unnecessary.
We can discuss whether it is better with taxation or without taxation.
I'm not saying that taxation is bad. Maybe it is better to keep it.
I'm just saying it isn't necessary - within a fiat currencies system.
Pres. Nayib is 100%
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You're familiar with the buy back and burn program of various crypto projects right? It's almost the same with the Government issuing newly printed fiats, then collecting them back through taxes. The process is controlling the fiat in circulation, thereby controlling inflation.
Yeah that is exactly what it's all about controlling inflation. The only problem in collecting taxes is that it sometimes landed in someone's purses not in the exact place where it should be. But if taxes really was collected, stored and used in a lawful way it will bring better result on the economic growth of a specific country.
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Admin first of all let me thank you for designing the forum to play video. Though I didn't finished watching the video but I like the speech of El Salvador President. And concerning the Tax. Paying tax is very good and if only the government of the country utilize it well for the purpose of the tax collecting from the people. And tax is collected for the development of the society, community and the Nation. Most people are not paying tax because the government agencies are not doing their jobs well. And instead they are corrupted. So they are also defaulters of the crime of not paying tax. We pay tax for the development of the nation for the government to provide the social amenities like, electricity, water, security, etc.
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You're familiar with the buy back and burn program of various crypto projects right? It's almost the same with the Government issuing newly printed fiats, then collecting them back through taxes. The process is controlling the fiat in circulation, thereby controlling inflation.
Yeah that is exactly what it's all about controlling inflation. The only problem in collecting taxes is that it sometimes landed in someone's purses not in the exact place where it should be. But if taxes really was collected, stored and used in a lawful way it will bring better result on the economic growth of a specific country.
It is also worth adding about taxes, in addition to their proper use, it is necessary to create a favorable environment in the economy for the development of private business, which in turn creates new businesses, new jobs, and as a result - new tax revenues. Without private business, the economy becomes very "sluggish" and inefficient, which in the end also negatively affects tax revenues. This is due to the low efficiency of companies that are run by the state and its management.
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Has anyone realized that Salvador can't print money?
They use the USD, they can't print money out of thin air so, how does that work in their case? ::)
Anyhow, if a country like the ones in Europe would resolve to printing money instead of collecting taxed they would need to add each year around 40-50% of their GDP in monetary mass, imagine Europe printing 10 trillions euros each year and giving it basically away, how do you think inflation would look like? Just one year healthcare and education spending in the EU is 20% of the total M1 supply.
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Yeah that is exactly what it's all about controlling inflation. The only problem in collecting taxes is that it sometimes landed in someone's purses not in the exact place where it should be. But if taxes really was collected, stored and used in a lawful way it will bring better result on the economic growth of a specific country.
It often happens that those who know the rules regarding taxation will always do as you say. That is no longer an open secret. Lining personal pockets from results that should not be with, so that the benefits that should be used from taxes taken cannot be fully absorbed and returned for the benefit of society, to improve economic growth. It is difficult to improve this kind of mentality if the rules made are not strict and government officials do not punish them firmly to provide a deterrent effect so that it will not happen again and again.
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Yeah that is exactly what it's all about controlling inflation. The only problem in collecting taxes is that it sometimes landed in someone's purses not in the exact place where it should be. But if taxes really was collected, stored and used in a lawful way it will bring better result on the economic growth of a specific country.
It often happens that those who know the rules regarding taxation will always do as you say. That is no longer an open secret. Lining personal pockets from results that should not be with, so that the benefits that should be used from taxes taken cannot be fully absorbed and returned for the benefit of society, to improve economic growth. It is difficult to improve this kind of mentality if the rules made are not strict and government officials do not punish them firmly to provide a deterrent effect so that it will not happen again and again.
hanging a corrupt politician right on the town square in front of the many people will be a good example for all politician in a country. this will make them afraid of spending the money that is not theirs.
putting them in prison will only make worse since people will still be paying taxes to feed this politician in the prison. they should be hang but the justice system in the country is just to coward in doing all these.
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Yeah that is exactly what it's all about controlling inflation. The only problem in collecting taxes is that it sometimes landed in someone's purses not in the exact place where it should be. But if taxes really was collected, stored and used in a lawful way it will bring better result on the economic growth of a specific country.
It often happens that those who know the rules regarding taxation will always do as you say. That is no longer an open secret. Lining personal pockets from results that should not be with, so that the benefits that should be used from taxes taken cannot be fully absorbed and returned for the benefit of society, to improve economic growth. It is difficult to improve this kind of mentality if the rules made are not strict and government officials do not punish them firmly to provide a deterrent effect so that it will not happen again and again.
hanging a corrupt politician right on the town square in front of the many people will be a good example for all politician in a country. this will make them afraid of spending the money that is not theirs.
putting them in prison will only make worse since people will still be paying taxes to feed this politician in the prison. they should be hang but the justice system in the country is just to coward in doing all these.
Sometimes, for a deterrent effect, we have to, as you say, take responsibility for everything in public, especially to the public. The most important thing is that their assets are confiscated and their rights to be free in politics, speak in public, and obtain easy facilities are no longer applied to them. Imprisoning them is not a solution if they still have access and assets. Everything should have been confiscated by the state so that they don't have the ability to manage everything anymore, especially if they are imprisoned, they will manage with the abilities they still have because they haven't been confiscated and limited.
Maybe if you hang, it will still involve human rights violations, but impoverishment is certainly the most effective, so that they can no longer manage with the money they have.
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That was funny but it still makes sense. Basically, the message was that the Government take back the money they printed through citizen taxes in order to keep the value of the currency up. It's use to keep fooling the citizens that inflation is under control. The cycle of collecting high taxes also allows the Government to keep printing fiats and fund military expansions in other countries.
There are many other important reasons for the collection of taxes by the government, among which you have mentioned that the most amount of money is spent in the military sector. It is never possible for the government to carry that money alone. Therefore, it pays for the country's education and military sectors by collecting taxes from the public. Moreover, there are hundreds of other important reasons through which the government is forced to collect taxes. MoreoverIf the tax is not collected, the rate of inflation in the country will increase to a great extent and the country incurs a lot of expenses for running the country and dealing with the outside world.
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The reason why we pay tax to the government is for the betterment of the country because tax is used, for infrastructures, it is used to fund education, it is used to pay salaries of workers and pensions of retiree's . It is very important that all citizens of the Nation are taxpayer, so that the money can be used for the betterment and improvement of the country.
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What I got is that he's implying that it's not needed because they keep on printing money to fund to so called infrastructures and other Government services.
President Nayib is right. Taxation was invented when some form of gold standard existed, before national currencies could be produced at will by Govs and Central Banks.
The only way for the gov to finance their expenses was to get money from their citizens - or from abroad, through international agreements, international trade, war, colonialism etc...
With the abolition of the gold standard and the introduction of fiat currencies produced at will, taxation becomes unnecessary.
We can discuss whether it is better with taxation or without taxation.
I'm not saying that taxation is bad. Maybe it is better to keep it.
I'm just saying it isn't necessary - within a fiat currencies system.
Pres. Nayib is 100%
And in this case, I'm willing to argue with you :)
Taxes are not some ethereal entity. It is money paid by the citizens of a country for the state to exist. The state has no other money than public sector revenues, and taxes. But the public sector is not the biggest part of the budget revenue. If people and businesses don't pay taxes - where will the state get the money to pay for pensions, benefits, compensation for medical care, education,... ? ? There are 2 options here:
Either the state provides nothing to citizens, at the expense of "state business" providing the work of the state itself, or it starts printing money. Both options you will obviously not like, as well as I do :)
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You're familiar with the buy back and burn program of various crypto projects right? It's almost the same with the Government issuing newly printed fiats, then collecting them back through taxes. The process is controlling the fiat in circulation, thereby controlling inflation.
Yeah that is exactly what it's all about controlling inflation. The only problem in collecting taxes is that it sometimes landed in someone's purses not in the exact place where it should be. But if taxes really was collected, stored and used in a lawful way it will bring better result on the economic growth of a specific country.
It is also worth adding about taxes, in addition to their proper use, it is necessary to create a favorable environment in the economy for the development of private business, which in turn creates new businesses, new jobs, and as a result - new tax revenues. Without private business, the economy becomes very "sluggish" and inefficient, which in the end also negatively affects tax revenues. This is due to the low efficiency of companies that are run by the state and its management.
Exactly, because that is where local and international business investors are up to since they don't bother pouring their capital into an economy that is unstable unless they are willing to take the risk. Taxes really has a lot of advantages and few disadvantages. For advantages it bring the economy up but for disadvantages it becomes a cash cow for corrupt politicians. That is why I can see some substandard projects here in my country and funny thing about it is that even if roads are still in good condition, they will intentionally destroy and reconstruct it so they can get portion of the budget which is pretty obvious in the eyes of the masses. I wish this kind of wrong doings will come to an end soon.
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hanging a corrupt politician right on the town square in front of the many people will be a good example for all politician in a country. this will make them afraid of spending the money that is not theirs.
All governments and especially dictatorships that have turned to this to make it look like they are protecting the average citizen and care about the country have ended up killing more innocents than any other regime, even if those were corrupt to the bone.
All of human history is filled with those who strat as freedom or equality fighters and ended up as genocidal dictators, Mao did this anti-corruption thing with the Three-anti Campaign, and Five-anti Campaign hundreds of thousands died and corruption became even more engraved in the country.
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You're familiar with the buy back and burn program of various crypto projects right? It's almost the same with the Government issuing newly printed fiats, then collecting them back through taxes. The process is controlling the fiat in circulation, thereby controlling inflation.
Yeah that is exactly what it's all about controlling inflation. The only problem in collecting taxes is that it sometimes landed in someone's purses not in the exact place where it should be. But if taxes really was collected, stored and used in a lawful way it will bring better result on the economic growth of a specific country.
It is also worth adding about taxes, in addition to their proper use, it is necessary to create a favorable environment in the economy for the development of private business, which in turn creates new businesses, new jobs, and as a result - new tax revenues. Without private business, the economy becomes very "sluggish" and inefficient, which in the end also negatively affects tax revenues. This is due to the low efficiency of companies that are run by the state and its management.
Exactly, because that is where local and international business investors are up to since they don't bother pouring their capital into an economy that is unstable unless they are willing to take the risk. Taxes really has a lot of advantages and few disadvantages. For advantages it bring the economy up but for disadvantages it becomes a cash cow for corrupt politicians. That is why I can see some substandard projects here in my country and funny thing about it is that even if roads are still in good condition, they will intentionally destroy and reconstruct it so they can get portion of the budget which is pretty obvious in the eyes of the masses. I wish this kind of wrong doings will come to an end soon.
You make all the right points. And most importantly, you have voiced the key problem - it is CORRUPTION. You can attract investors, you can create good legislation, you can make even low taxes - but until the impact of corruption in the country is destroyed or minimized, it will all be ineffective. Unfortunately, corruption is a very serious, "chronic" disease of the state. And corruption, as an insidious disease, makes the "whole organism", i.e. all other citizens of the country to work very hard, after which corruption steals the fruits of the work of all people without any problems.
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Some believe that the social portable is unfair since not everyone receives equal advantages from the government's services. For example, some people may live in rural locations with few public amenities or they may not use roads or schools as frequently as others. On the other hand, some say that even if you do not use government services, you profit by living in an atmosphere that provides them. Even if you don't drive on the road, you benefit from the fact that others can commute to work and provide goods and services to you. So we all agree to pay taxes to fund services provided to the public, and as a return, we get the benefit of all of these advantages.
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If people and businesses don't pay taxes - where will the state get the money to pay for pensions, benefits, compensation for medical care, education,... ? ? There are 2 options here:
Either the state provides nothing to citizens, at the expense of "state business" providing the work of the state itself, or it starts printing money. Both options you will obviously not like, as well as I do :)
Hi doc
you are right, I don't like neither one of those 2 options.
The point is, like it or not, states do print money.
So as long as they print money, they can get the money they need from that printing = as long as they print money, taxation is not necessary.
As soon as they stop printing money, taxation becomes necessary.
Imo
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If people and businesses don't pay taxes - where will the state get the money to pay for pensions, benefits, compensation for medical care, education,... ? ? There are 2 options here:
Either the state provides nothing to citizens, at the expense of "state business" providing the work of the state itself, or it starts printing money. Both options you will obviously not like, as well as I do :)
Hi doc
you are right, I don't like neither one of those 2 options.
The point is, like it or not, states do print money.
So as long as they print money, they can get the money they need from that printing = as long as they print money, taxation is not necessary.
As soon as they stop printing money, taxation becomes necessary.
Imo
Hard to disagree with you Peter90 ! :)
But there is another problem, which I often talk about - additional issue, inflation, taxes - it's all very much intertwined. Without additional emission the state system cannot work. Additional emission generates inflation, inflation motivates people to inject money into the economy and consume more. In the end, all this turns into taxes, which form a large part of the budget of the state, and at the same time restrain the additional emission !
The only question is the balance of this system. As soon as the emission becomes the main process of filling the budget - inflation becomes uncontrollable, and this leads to the shutdown of the economy, and.... a decrease in tax revenues, and the launch of new "printing presses".
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-snip-
The point is, like it or not, states do print money.
So as long as they print money, they can get the money they need from that printing = as long as they print money, taxation is not necessary.
As soon as they stop printing money, taxation becomes necessary.
Imo
As long as the country still needs paper money as a means of payment, it is natural that the state will prepare it as a means of transaction, Because without money there will be bartering of goods, not buying and selling anymore. There is no connection between directly printing money or stopping printing money by asking for taxes, because taxes are imposed by the government on the services we receive from income, buying and selling, etc.
The government cannot stop printing money as long as it is necessary for legal tender. CMIIW
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In a country, it is the duty of the citizens to pay taxes in order to maintain the development of the country. These taxes are imposed on the citizens by the government. In my country, they deduct it directly from the salaries of the citizens, in only government institutions only, and they are called the civil servants.
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Taxes are paid to enable the government to function properly. This is similar to what happens in every group. Members are compelled to pay dues to ensure that the group keeps running. So it is with the government. Government is there to ensure that the citizens have a good life and to provide infrastructures and services that can guarantee the good life, citizens must pay taxes.
The morality behind the payment of tax by citizens is justifiable but sadly, the government especially in Nigeria uses these taxes to enrich themselves thereby neglecting the provision of a good life for citizens. Because of this, most taxpayers are hoping that they can stop paying tax since it's not worth it.
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Taxes are paid to enable the government to function properly. ... Government is there to ensure that the citizens have a good life and to provide infrastructures and services that can guarantee the good life, citizens must pay taxes.
No, because the money that the state needs, he's producing it, at will.
Taxes are not necessary where the state produce money out of thin air.
If you are the state, you can't during the day ask me money and in the night go in your basement and print banknotes.
You want too much.
You have to choose.
That banknotes printing devalue my money.
So not only I have to give you part of my money, but also the part that I can keep, gets devalued by you?
This is similar to what happens in every group. Members are compelled to pay dues to ensure that the group keeps running.
No, it's not similar: in those groups the leaders can't produce money out of thin air.
I have never be part of a group in which someone could produce money at will.
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In a country, it is the duty of the citizens to pay taxes in order to maintain the development of the country.
This is true only where the monetary authorities don't create money at will.
You don't know it but are talking about the civil duties within a Gold Standard.
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Has anyone realized that Salvador can't print money?
They use the USD, they can't print money out of thin air so, how does that work in their case? ::)
Printing money increases the chances of inflation in the country. When a country's government fails to manage money to run its country, passes bills and prints money at will, only inflation occurs. Moreover, if the international currency dollar is used, then the government can change the country's economic index by making a special strategy or policy determination road map in using that dollar. There is no possibility of inflation in the country as there is no authority to use the scarce dollar at will. This step is considered to be the most important and epoch-making among the various revolutionary steps taken by the President of El Salvador.
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Tax are used for encouraging saving for retirement.
There are different reasons we pay taxes as well as different types of tax's for example we have
income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, estate taxes etc... Income taxes are used to provide funding for the government. Sales taxes to generate revenue for local government and funding public services.Each tax has its own function Within it's overall tax system.
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In a country, it is the duty of the citizens to pay taxes in order to maintain the development of the country.
This is true only where the monetary authorities don't create money at will.
You don't know it but are talking about the civil duties within a Gold Standard.
Printing money "at will" and for no reason is the worst case scenario. Mindlessly plugging holes in the budget with new money not only does not solve the problem, but makes it much worse. A well-thought-out balanced model, when the money supply corresponds to the balance of costs and revenues of the state, gives the best option for economic development and maintaining acceptable living standards of citizens. Balance and thoughtfulness are the key to an adequate economy and an adequate standard of living for citizens. Unfortunately, there is no other working practical model today. The theoretical concepts with which I am familiar are good only in theory, but in the real world can work only in isolated communities and under certain "ideal" conditions
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Printing money "at will" and for no reason is the worst case scenario.
Yes but consider that At will is different from for no reason
In our fiat system, currency is created at will, meaning the Central Bank of your country can create - at any time - how much money the want.
That doesn't mean for no reason, because there is always a reason, and many times the reasons are good ones, e.g. stimulate the economy.
The problem - the fundamental, essential flaw - of fiat system is the creating currency at will part.
Unfortunately, there is no other working practical model today.
True
No country is working on a gold standard base.
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Printing money "at will" and for no reason is the worst case scenario.
Yes but consider that At will is different from for no reason
In our fiat system, currency is created at will, meaning the Central Bank of your country can create - at any time - how much money the want.
That doesn't mean for no reason, because there is always a reason, and many times the reasons are good ones, e.g. stimulate the economy.
The problem - the fundamental, essential flaw - of fiat system is the creating currency at will part.
Unfortunately, there is no other working practical model today.
True
No country is working on a gold standard base.
I agree, like the words are similar but the meaning is totally different :)
"At will", and it is correct to say probably "forced" - this is exactly the case when the state should start the machine for additional emission, when there are OBJECTIVE reasons for it.
But "without reason" is really a crime against the economy and the population.
The gold standard is probably not a bad solution, but.... probably not for the modern world. The gold standard, like any solution, has its advantages and disadvantages. And it seems that today's economy is not really ready for the gold standard, for any number of reasons.
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And it seems that today's economy is not really ready for the gold standard, for any number of reasons.
The gold standard could be here tomorrow morning.
The fact that we don't have it is a political decision.
Abandoning the gold standard - the convertibility of the $ - in 1970 by the Nixon administration was a political decision.
Abandoning the gold standard allowed the USA to create as much currency as they pleased
Goverments and politicians don't want the limitations to create&spend represented by the Gold standard
Central Banks don't want competition to the currency they control
This has nothing to do with the economy
The economy needs hard currency
Businesses want hard currency
Once you have a trustable and working gold-backed digital currency, ask businesses if they prefer to be paid with gold or with fiat
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And it seems that today's economy is not really ready for the gold standard, for any number of reasons.
The gold standard could be here tomorrow morning.
The fact that we don't have it is a political decision.
Abandoning the gold standard - the convertibility of the $ - in 1970 by the Nixon administration was a political decision.
Abandoning the gold standard allowed the USA to create as much currency as they pleased
Goverments and politicians don't want the limitations to create&spend represented by the Gold standard
Central Banks don't want competition to the currency they control
This has nothing to do with the economy
The economy needs hard currency
Businesses want hard currency
Once you have a trustable and working gold-backed digital currency, ask businesses if they prefer to be paid with gold or with fiat
I have already written, if we are talking about a real gold standard - this scheme will not work, for a banal reason - there are no mechanisms to verify the real gold reserves of the holding countries. And the times of "we are gentlemen - we take our word for it" have unfortunately passed....
The second reason is a strong enough stratification of the world. Someone simply does not want, someone denies gold and "world agreements", someone is not profitable !
Well and most importantly - if we choose the concept not "to create a convenient for all", and "why the U.S. is living so well, we need to fix it" - we will not achieve the result :)
The USA at a certain point was nimbler, smarter, because no one else could "promote" their position, and the majority agreed with this system.
Another question - how much will the gold standard really make the world a better place, give everyone equal rights, remove "monopolies" - are we talking about this or only about transferring the "palm of superiority" to someone who is not called the USA ? :)
There are no perfect systems, there are systems with better balance and acceptance of compromise by the majority of participants. The dollar - while such a system, the Gold Standard - must prove its right to exist and acceptance in the COUNTRY, and only then it can replace the dollar.
And about the last sentence: wasn't there some analogy when paper money had the inscription "backed by gold", and when the situation demanded proof - it turned out that it was backed by gold only on paper. Who on the state and world level will guarantee the reality of gold backing of some "gold-bitcoin" for example?
Yes I know there are private solutions you mentioned, but it is a private company controlled by consumers, government, etc. What about real gold backing of pseudo-international currency ? And its control ? In the world today, fundamental treaties and obligations are not being fulfilled, and for the opportunity to manage the world financial system, there will be even more violations....
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there are no mechanisms to verify the real gold reserves of the holding countries.
Of course there are
They are called audits
Something the US government is refusing to do since 1953
They even refuse of auditing the gold reserves that other countries keep in the USA
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there are no mechanisms to verify the real gold reserves of the holding countries.
Of course there are
They are called audits
Something the US government is refusing to do since 1953
They even refuse of auditing the gold reserves that other countries keep in the USA
Well, you see, it all comes down to "and the US...", "and the US doesn't do this....", "and the US does that..." :) I.e. the goal is not to create a better scheme for everyone, but to force the USA not to live the way they used to live :)
And this is an indicator that the project is not realized. When we do something "AGAINST" (in this case the emphasis is against the USA, without mentioning any other countries) and not "FOR" (everyone), we destroy but not create.
PS Tell me, China, Russia, South Africa, Iran, Germany, and other countries are conducting audits, I understand correctly ? :)
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In a country, it is the duty of the citizens to pay taxes in order to maintain the development of the country. These taxes are imposed on the citizens by the government. In my country, they deduct it directly from the salaries of the citizens, in only government institutions only, and they are called the civil servants.
In my country income tax is currently made mandatory especially excise duty is levied on the purchase of goods. But the government cannot run its country well without the taxes we pay. It takes money to run a country and that money is collected by the government from the people called taxes. Citizens at all stages of life have certain mandatory responsibilities from which the country has to be managed. To manage a country, the government alone does not have to perform the responsibility, in this case, the citizens have to play a role in the economic development of the country by performing the responsibility with the government. The biggest challenge facing the government in this economic development is collecting taxes from the citizens.
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I have already written, if we are talking about a real gold standard - this scheme will not work, for a banal reason - there are no mechanisms to verify the real gold reserves of the holding countries.
Of course there are
they are called audits
If you say, gold standard can't work today, it's your opinion.
I disagree, but I respect it.
If you say, gold standard was abandoned because it didn't work, that's factually false.
Gold standard was abandoned not because it didn't work.
It worked very well.
It was a political decision.
The US gov needed money in order to keep throwing bombs on the Vietnamese
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I have already written, if we are talking about a real gold standard - this scheme will not work, for a banal reason - there are no mechanisms to verify the real gold reserves of the holding countries.
Of course there are
they are called audits
If you say, gold standard can't work today, it's your opinion.
I disagree, but I respect it.
If you say, gold standard was abandoned because it didn't work, that's factually false.
Gold standard was abandoned not because it didn't work.
It worked very well.
It was a political decision.
The US gov needed money in order to keep throwing bombs on the Vietnamese
With all due respect, I can't agree :) Or let's discuss what would be more productive and interesting !
1. audit - where can we read the results of the audit of state gold reserves in China, Russia, Iran, and let it be Germany ?
I will answer in advance, from my side - there is no such data. There are only official statements, but not the audit.
2. With the gold standard not everything is so simple.... The gold standard worked well in times before the 20th century. By the second half gold became not the most convenient measure of value, for many, both subjective and objective reasons (we can discuss).
And most countries have embraced the idea of changing the asset to measure value. No, they were not forced or coerced, they accepted the idea themselves because of the lack of others and the inconvenience of the "gold standard".
And after that gold became not a measure of price, but a commodity, the price of which was regulated by the market, including speculative actions. That is why the time of stability and low volatility ended, and from about 60s gold as a commodity started market price rally. That is what we are witnessing now. The key point is that gold ceased to be a currency or a measure of price and became a commodity.
I'm ready to hear your opinion !
PS the US changed the gold standard to bomb Vietnam ? ! I have heard many "interesting" versions, but this is new :)) Ok - then it turns out that gold was necessary for example Gaddafi - to destroy the opposition. Russia - for international terror, and China - well, let it be for the seizure of Taiwan ? Or maybe the U.S. needed money to weaken the USSR, which in Vietnam did not organize a nuclear and biological war and did not destroy Mexico and then the whole world ? :) My THEORY also has a right to life, and a logical statement ! Or ? :)
Let's not use dubious PROPOSALS ? We are intelligent adults, aren't we ?
When a problem is solved by "assigning a single culprit" because "it's convenient" or "it's the way you like it" - it usually indicates some bias in the solution, or a search for a "convenient answer". Yes, I recognize that the U.S. has been both more cunning and smarter and more nimble than others. But it also suggests that the rest of the world was dumber, less resourceful and unconvincing against the US. Let's not confuse PREFERENCES with AWESOMENESS or PERSONAL INFLUENCE, and assess the situation objectively.
It is more interesting that way, and what is important - you can find a logical and truthful explanation of the situation :)
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In a country, it is the duty of the citizens to pay taxes in order to maintain the development of the country. These taxes are imposed on the citizens by the government. In my country, they deduct it directly from the salaries of the citizens, in only government institutions only, and they are called the civil servants.
In my country income tax is currently made mandatory especially excise duty is levied on the purchase of goods. But the government cannot run its country well without the taxes we pay. It takes money to run a country and that money is collected by the government from the people called taxes. Citizens at all stages of life have certain mandatory responsibilities from which the country has to be managed. To manage a country, the government alone does not have to perform the responsibility, in this case, the citizens have to play a role in the economic development of the country by performing the responsibility with the government. The biggest challenge facing the government in this economic development is collecting taxes from the citizens.
For me the only challenge was that government being too corrupt to even use taxes for their own interest as it is a given fact even in the early ages that we the people has to pay taxes as it is the norm but not the corrupt. And you are correct based on my understanding taxes runs a country and the lesser the tax I think it also has a lesser economic growth not unless a country is a wealthy one.
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I just wanted to say that all the government knows what they are doing. In reality, without taxes been paid, there wouldn't be developments and when people py taxes, they are mean to enjoy their taxes but because of corruptions and looting, they don't properly allocate these funds and even when they allocate this money, they embezle the money.
If one day the government decide to make it's fiat money run through a decentralized blockchain where the money inflow and outflow can be trace, trust me corruption will cease to exist, people will b scared to looth government taxes because clearly that's what they do.
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Perhaps the simplest and most straightforward explanation of why we pay taxes is the "economic interaction" between the citizen and the state. We can think of it as a "hotel" where citizens stay. However, the hotel is clearly not 5* and the service is clearly not of ultra-all level :)
But, to us (the state) the hotel provides some services, maintains some minimum stability, sometimes gives free medicines, sometimes takes children to study or entertainment, old people - gives a chaise longue on the beach,.... And for all this we pay. How much or not - that's another question.... But we have to pay to keep this hotel running and providing services to us.
Are there tax-free models of government? I'm not sure. It's more like tribal relations, but there no one will long maintain a member of the community who does not benefit (payment to society in kind). Maybe someone knows about tax-free models? I would like to understand how this model could look like !??
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I just wanted to say that all the government knows what they are doing. In reality, without taxes been paid, there wouldn't be developments and when people py taxes, they are mean to enjoy their taxes but because of corruptions and looting, they don't properly allocate these funds and even when they allocate this money, they embezle the money.
If one day the government decide to make it's fiat money run through a decentralized blockchain where the money inflow and outflow can be trace, trust me corruption will cease to exist, people will b scared to looth government taxes because clearly that's what they do.
At first taxation system was introduced with the purpose of doing good for the people who are poorer by collecting the money from the people who have money that can't be spent in their entire life time.
Now the ideology is reversed, rich pay fewer taxes than the poor and this is because the rich control the system so they made changes that will benefit them most, poor people in terms of finance and knowledge still believes that money collected in taxes is being used for the developments of their citizen while in reality it's utilized to make more earning opportunities for the top 1%...
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I just wanted to say that all the government knows what they are doing. In reality, without taxes been paid, there wouldn't be developments and when people py taxes, they are mean to enjoy their taxes but because of corruptions and looting, they don't properly allocate these funds and even when they allocate this money, they embezle the money.
If one day the government decide to make it's fiat money run through a decentralized blockchain where the money inflow and outflow can be trace, trust me corruption will cease to exist, people will b scared to looth government taxes because clearly that's what they do.
At first taxation system was introduced with the purpose of doing good for the people who are poorer by collecting the money from the people who have money that can't be spent in their entire life time.
Now the ideology is reversed, rich pay fewer taxes than the poor and this is because the rich control the system so they made changes that will benefit them most, poor people in terms of finance and knowledge still believes that money collected in taxes is being used for the developments of their citizen while in reality it's utilized to make more earning opportunities for the top 1%...
Well yeah that is what President Bukele was saying it's an illusion thing. But for me tax is good if implemented fairly and is done in due process. Taxes has been here since the old days so there is no way we are going to evade on it unless you are Robert Kiyosaki. 😅✌️
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Well yeah that is what President Bukele was saying it's an illusion thing. But for me tax is good if implemented fairly and is done in due process. Taxes has been here since the old days so there is no way we are going to evade on it unless you are Robert Kiyosaki. 😅✌️
Anyone can evade taxes but you will be considered as a criminal if you do.
While the term you should be using is avoid taxes and that's what every rich person is doing to stack their earned money for themselves which is only possible for the rich people who make money in other forms than getting paid via salary.
This is why experts says the system is rigged cause it's made in the favor of rich people.
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Well yeah that is what President Bukele was saying it's an illusion thing. But for me tax is good if implemented fairly and is done in due process. Taxes has been here since the old days so there is no way we are going to evade on it unless you are Robert Kiyosaki. 😅✌️
Anyone can evade taxes but you will be considered as a criminal if you do.
While the term you should be using is avoid taxes and that's what every rich person is doing to stack their earned money for themselves which is only possible for the rich people who make money in other forms than getting paid via salary.
This is why experts says the system is rigged cause it's made in the favor of rich people.
Well yeah I totally agree on this one and I think they do it the right way as well unless their riches came from blood money which is inappropriate. Yeah "avoid" is the right term instead of "evade" as the last one is a bit of rude sorry for that as english is not my native language.
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Well yeah that is what President Bukele was saying it's an illusion thing. But for me tax is good if implemented fairly and is done in due process. Taxes has been here since the old days so there is no way we are going to evade on it unless you are Robert Kiyosaki. 😅✌️
Anyone can evade taxes but you will be considered as a criminal if you do.
While the term you should be using is avoid taxes and that's what every rich person is doing to stack their earned money for themselves which is only possible for the rich people who make money in other forms than getting paid via salary.
This is why experts says the system is rigged cause it's made in the favor of rich people.
As a tax payer (as an individual and as a businessman), I will add for myself:
- There are criminal schemes of income concealment and as a consequence - crimes in the economic sphere - non-payment of taxes. This is a crime.
- There is a concept of tax optimization. This is a legal way to reduce tax pressure on business. Conditionally speaking, for example, I believe that up to 10% of tax, a person will pay almost voluntarily and few people will try to cheat the fiscal service. At 50% tax - business will look for ways to optimize. This is normal, because high taxes are a heavy burden for both people and businesses. Optimization is limited by the legal framework, and therefore does not lead to violation of the law
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What makes one a bonafide citizen of a country is when they stay out of crime and pay their tax. A citizen not paying tax simply means they are not in support of the government towards the country's development and infrastructure. The income generated from taxes paid goes along with footing some government bills. It would not be an idea for someone who calls themselves a bonafide citizen of a country to refuse to pay their tax and blame the government for not performing their duty in infrastructure development
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What makes one a bonafide citizen of a country is when they stay out of crime and pay their tax. A citizen not paying tax simply means they are not in support of the government towards the country's development and infrastructure. The income generated from taxes paid goes along with footing some government bills. It would not be an idea for someone who calls themselves a bonafide citizen of a country to refuse to pay their tax and blame the government for not performing their duty in infrastructure development
I partially disagree - there are many groups of people who for one reason or another simply cannot pay taxes, but this does not mean that they do not support the country. For example: under-age people, pensioners, people with disabilities, people who are unemployed, etc. so-called "social groups of people". And it is the taxes of other people that allow the state to provide financial support to such groups of people, and this is normal - this is how the state system works. Yes, there are nuances - the balance of tax generators and consumers of social programs. Or corruption....
And criminals are those who purposefully, deliberately, receiving income in the country, do not pay taxes.
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At first taxation system was introduced with the purpose of doing good for the people who are poorer by collecting the money from the people who have money that can't be spent in their entire life time.
At first taxation system was introduced within the Gold Standard, when governments couldn't produce money at will.
Today governments produce money at will so there is no point for taxation.
President Nayib is right.
Taxation is the same as gov selling bonds to the people in order to borrow money:
Why does the government need to borrow money from the people if they (gov) can create it (money) themselves?
They asked this question to the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors of the President of the USA.
He couldn't answer.
The video is going viral on X, and is so embarrassing ...
(https://i.ibb.co/hgRPkFt/1.png)
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"At first taxation system was introduced within the Gold Standard"
After this phrase you should add "but it's not certain" - no offense :) It's just that the history of taxation is "a little bit" older than the gold standard....
Some interesting facts about taxes and taxation.
1. Taxes appeared earlier than states. They existed already in the Neolithic period in the form of temple donations, were mandatory for all members of the community and were perceived by "payers" as an integral part of the system of the universe.
2. In ancient Rome, tax rates were revised every five years and depended on the activity of military actions. In peacetime no taxes were collected, and during the war they were compensated by the captured booty.
3. To replenish the treasury, depleted because of the war with Napoleon, English King George III introduced luxury taxes. They were paid by buyers of hats and cane tips.
4. To fill the treasury and stimulate population growth, the Roman Emperor Octavian Augustus introduced a tax on celibacy and childlessness. For example, unmarried women aged 20-50 paid 1% of all their property annually.
5. The incentive for Norman merchants to embrace Islam was the complete exemption of converts from taxes on commercial transactions within the Arab world.
6. After the murder of her husband, Prince Igor, during the traditional tribute collection, Princess Olga carried out a tax reform in the middle of 946-7, in which a clear regulation of fees appeared, taxable administrative units "pogosts" were designated, and an apparatus of fiscal officials "tiuns" was established.
7. The first census in history, conducted by King William the Conqueror of England in 1088, was referred to by his subjects as the "Book of Dreadful Judgment," which caused them to pay more taxes to support the growing bureaucratic apparatus.
8. University professors and students were exempted from paying the land tally, the first universal direct tax introduced in 12th-century France, and were thus equated with the privileged classes of nobility and clergy.
9. One of the richest Florentines of the early XV century, merchant and banker Giovanni Morelli in his diary gave advice to his son to optimize taxation: "Hide your income from the authorities, always show only half of what you have".
10. At the time of the Golden Horde yoke in the lands of Kievan Rus paid "tyagar" in favor of the khan - a measure of wheat, two ropes, one coin, an arrow and a horseshoe.
9 out of 10 facts about taxes, occurs much earlier than the introduction of the "gold standard".
By the way, the question - and why in your opinion was introduced exactly the GOLD standard and not, for example, platinum, tungsten or other ? Isn't there someone's benefit in this and an attempt to make the whole world dependent on the "more successful position" of one of the participants of this standard? A question for reflection :)
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The US government borrows money by selling US Treasuries (federal debt).
The US government prints money.
Question:
Why does the US government need to borrow money if they print it?
(https://i.ibb.co/ByQN9HV/12.png)
12 millions klicks only from this account.
Many more considering re-tweeting.
Unbelievable
Got gold? :D
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Everybody wants to pay taxes. Government meet its expenses and do all types of infrastructure, other development activities by collecting taxes on various sources. But in many developing and poor countries corrupt politicians use these funds for there own personal benefits. That is why people in these countries don't want to pay taxes
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Everybody wants to pay taxes.
Sure, I can't wait
Here in the neighbourhood every year when we finally can wire transfer the money to the tax agency people are so happy they make a huge party
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Everybody wants to pay taxes. Government meet its expenses and do all types of infrastructure, other development activities by collecting taxes on various sources. But in many developing and poor countries corrupt politicians use these funds for there own personal benefits. That is why people in these countries don't want to pay taxes
On the one hand, I envy you very much ! It seems that you live in such a beautiful country, where such positive conditions for the life of citizens are created that they WANT to pay taxes ! That's wonderful ! It's actually a paradise on earth !
On the other hand, I can assume that you just mixed up the words "want" and "must" :)
I have seen countries both poor and rich, but they all have one thing in common - they MUST pay taxes, and everyone is trying to OPTIMIZE them. And some people break the law and use criminal schemes to hide income and not pay taxes
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Everybody wants to pay taxes.
Sure, I can't wait
Here in the neighbourhood every year when we finally can wire transfer the money to the tax agency people are so happy they make a huge party
Which country is that? I really want to join in the party with the money generated from taxes. It seems like it would be really fun to waste people's money to have fun and toast until morning.