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Author Topic: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.  (Read 1558 times)

Offline Yamane_Keto

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2024, 05:36:36 AM »
To make it more clear to understand, someone should explain what is P2WPKH or P2PKH for for example. Because first post looks confusing. OP described what type of addresses there are, but when I open https://bitcoinops.org/en/tools/calc-size/, how can I use that information? According to tool, difference between P2WPKH and P2PKH in fee cost is 87%. OP showed example with Segwit wallet. Ok, I have a Legacy address, what should I choose from the list ?

Moreover, even if we understand how to use that tool, information is still not full. With current mempool priorities are 64/72/80 sat/vB. What is the time difference between them? I dont want to overpay for extra 5 minutes, which option should I take?
In calculating virtual size, which is used to calculate the appropriate fees, you need to specify the number of input addresses, the number of output addresses, and the type of address.
As for the address type, these are the available Bitcoin addresses:

1) P2PKH: Pay-to-Public-Key-Hash or Legacy address (starting with 1)
2) P2SH: Pay-to-Script-Hash or SegWit address (starting with 3)
3) P2WPKH: Pay-to-Witness-Public-Key-Hash or Native SegWit or bech32 (starting with bc1)
4) P2TR: Pay-to-Taproot or Taproot address (starting with bc1p)

You can search on Google for the differences between them, but I will focus on virtual size (in vbyte), and this table shows you the differences (https://bitcoinops.org/en/tools/calc-size/ This table calculates for you by changing the entries)

          Type         |  Input  vbyte | Output vbyte |  transaction vbyte
-------------------------+----------------- +----------------------+--------------------------
       Legacy         |      140        |            34          |           192 
         segwit        |        93        |           32           |           134
 Native segwit      |        68        |           31           |         109.5
          P2TR         |      57.5       |           43           |           111

If you notice that for the same number of input and output addresses, the transaction size differs because we use a different address type or in other words Using an address type saves more fees than other types, so it is always recommended to use addresses starting with bc1 to reduce fees.

The wallet performs this step automatically, so if you do not understand it, always remember to use an address that begins with bc1.

After using the address, you need to search for the appropriate fees, which are what you find in mempool priorities. These fees are an estimate of the time that you have to wait, but this time may differ from the truth, and we can say that the difference between them is:

Low Priority: There is a high probability that your transaction will be confirmed within 30-60 minutes
Medium Priority: There is a high probability that your transaction will be confirmed within 20-30 minutes
High Priority: There is a high probability that your transaction will be confirmed within 10-20 minutes

They are all guesses.

If you are in a hurry to confirm your transaction, use the bc1 address. Go to https://mempool.space and set the High Priority fee (more than these fees will help confirm your transaction, but do not pay much more than them. If it is 90, put in your wallet any number between 90 and 120)

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2024, 05:36:36 AM »

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Offline masudginanjar

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2024, 11:52:30 AM »
And if you are multi-millionaire or billionaire than you don't have to worry about fees at all  ;)
@Yamane_Keto and @dkbit98 , You two really understand what Bitcoin is and how Bitcoin works.
I appreciate that and to understand every rare in Bitcoin this definitely requires long learning.
But it will be easy to answer and be sanggah when Raja Arthur has 100,000 Bitcoin and is sent to the Wallet for his mother worth 100 Bitcoin at a fee of 0.1 Bitcoin and the answer is "no problem".  :D
As long as King Arthur still has a lot of bitcoin in his wallet for transaction fees of up to tens of thousands of USD also certainly will not question the transaction costs.
And it will definitely be different from me when I only have Bitcoin 0,0001 and have to pay a transaction fee of 0.001 BTC, this is a absurdity for myself. LOL
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Offline DaNNy001

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2024, 09:11:31 PM »
Recently, Bitcoin fees have increased significantly, and because many beginners want to confirm their transaction and do not know how to calculate fees, so they pay more fees. In this case, a user paid 648 sat / Vbyte, and after a few minutes he discovered that the transaction had not been confirmed, so he increased it to 1116 sat, then 1,293, then increasing it to 1,585, then finally confirming it with 7,895 sat/Vbyte. Thus, instead of paying $30 to confirm the transaction, he paid $367.


Thanks for the update although I normally just check the mempool price whenever I want transact as it clearly shows how the transaction fee priority in the status bar below so you can know if it's the right time to sell or not because if the transaction fee rate is above 50sats then I don't think I can transact besides payment of low fees is actually one of the reasons and advantage of us using Bitcoin as means of transaction but this ordinance issue has changed the whole concept and made the whole thing look awkward, I mean look at what someone actually did, paying a whooping sum of 300$+ for just fee I mean that's fucking crazy and that's why lack of knowledge can also kill or maybe the person has the funds and wouldn't mind but we can't say the same for every crypto or Bitcoin user.

Offline IvugeoEvolutionCoin

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2024, 11:58:25 PM »
Thanks for the update although I normally just check the mempool price whenever I want transact as it clearly shows how the transaction fee priority in the status bar below so you can know if it's the right time to sell or not because if the transaction fee rate is above 50sats then I don't think I can transact besides payment of low fees is actually one of the reasons and advantage of us using Bitcoin as means of transaction but this ordinance issue has changed the whole concept and made the whole thing look awkward, I mean look at what someone actually did, paying a whooping sum of 300$+ for just fee I mean that's fucking crazy and that's why lack of knowledge can also kill or maybe the person has the funds and wouldn't mind but we can't say the same for every crypto or Bitcoin user.
Transaction fees from the mempool will follow from the transaction conditions on the blockchain network. When many people make transactions, miners need quite a long time to work on ongoing requests. Therefore,  when you want to send money using Bitcoin, you have to often look at the blockchain to see how many transactions are still pending, and if miners want them to be executed quickly, then they have to increase transaction fees.

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2024, 12:31:13 AM »
When a transaction is marked RBF, delivery will be very slow because the costs are very cheap, which will prevent miners from being quick enough to carry out the transaction process that is taking place.
I don't think you understand what you are saying, when a tx is flagged as rbf, it simply means that in a situation were that tx gets stuck, the sender can replace the tx with a new one paying a higher fee this time, so that miners will mine it and that will then make the initial tx invalid.

Very soon most BTC nodes will adopt the full-rbf feature, and that means you will be able to replace a tx with a new one, even if the tx was not originally rbf-enabled.

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2024, 06:56:45 AM »
You know we can't actually stop other bitcoin holders from paying high fees if they withdraw a large amount of bitcoin. Then there are actually other holders who do that; no matter what reminders others do for people like them, it can't really be avoided, in my opinion.

But most bitcoin holders still do not tolerate the payment of higher fees when there is a congestion crisis in the bitcoin network. It's just that; it's just a little annoying when something like that actually happens.
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Offline Yamane_Keto

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2024, 10:18:55 AM »
Transaction fees from the mempool will follow from the transaction conditions on the blockchain network. When many people make transactions, miners need quite a long time to work on ongoing requests.
IvugeoEvolutionCoin, both of the information you mentioned are wrong.

RBF does not affect the speed of transaction confirmation and makes it slow. RBF is a flag that is either activated or not, but even if your transaction does not have an RBF flag, Full RBF nodes can replace it.
You don't need to look at the number of pending transactions to know the appropriate fees, there are already services that analyze this mentioned in the topic.


is above 50sats then I don't think I can transact besides payment of low fees is actually one of the reasons and advantage of us using Bitcoin as means of transaction but this ordinance issue has changed the whole concept and made the whole thing look awkward, I mean look at what someone actually did, paying a whooping sum of 300$+
Even with 500 sats and 50 sats, if you know how Bitcoin works you will pay low fees and in most cases they will be reasonable.

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2024, 10:18:55 AM »


Offline ABCbits

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2024, 01:16:41 PM »
Very soon most BTC nodes will adopt the full-rbf feature, and that means you will be able to replace a tx with a new one, even if the tx was not originally rbf-enabled.

I wouldn't say it's very soon when Bitcoin Core 26.0 (current latest version) still disable full RBF by default[1]. And when Bitcoin Core makes it enabled by default, we still have to wait until node owner/operator update their software.

[1] https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v26.0/src/kernel/mempool_options.h#L24-L25
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Offline IvugeoEvolutionCoin

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2024, 11:32:46 PM »
You know we can't actually stop other bitcoin holders from paying high fees if they withdraw a large amount of bitcoin. Then there are actually other holders who do that; no matter what reminders others do for people like them, it can't really be avoided, in my opinion.

But most bitcoin holders still do not tolerate the payment of higher fees when there is a congestion crisis in the bitcoin network. It's just that; it's just a little annoying when something like that actually happens.
The high fees at the current exchange rate are so pronounced that many people do not want to pay very expensive fees. Many of them ultimately prefer to make transfers using altcoins or other networks that have cheaper transaction fees than using Bitcoin.

Offline JoyMarsha

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2024, 10:50:47 PM »
Sending Bitcoin with an overpay amount is mostly carried out by newbies. Newbies are the ones guilty of making high-cost transaction fees of bitcoin.

I remember years back when I didn't know how to reduce the transaction fee of bitcoin using a trust wallet. It is always a price that appears on my trust wallet, I will send my bitcoin like that without having a thought of how to reduce the gas fee.

I think that's the same encounter that the person you used as an example had. He has no idea of how to reduce the gas fee of bitcoin. If he had already know, he won't have tried to send bitcoin with such amount without reducing it before sending.

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2024, 12:44:11 AM »
Sending Bitcoin with an overpay amount is mostly carried out by newbies. Newbies are the ones guilty of making high-cost transaction fees of bitcoin.
This is not always true, even paxos made on overpayment of around $500k, though the excess amount was returned to them by F2pool. People can also make mistake when they use bots or very bad software to make their tx's.
I remember years back when I didn't know how to reduce the transaction fee of bitcoin using a trust wallet. It is always a price that appears on my trust wallet, I will send my bitcoin like that without having a thought of how to reduce the gas fee.
I hope you are no longer using Trust Wallet and you are now using recommeded BTC wallets like Electrum and BlueWallet, so you can customize your fee as you like. Take note that it is also not called gas fee, in the BTC network it is tx fees.

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2024, 01:01:24 AM »
Sending Bitcoin with an overpay amount is mostly carried out by newbies. Newbies are the ones guilty of making high-cost transaction fees of bitcoin.
This is not always true, even paxos made on overpayment of around $500k, though the excess amount was returned to them by F2pool. People can also make mistake when they use bots or very bad software to make their tx's.



I don't think newbies or anyone is the reason for the high-cost transaction fees if you keep checking the mempool.space chart for incoming transactions there a spikes that make transaction fees also have spikes meaning many people make transactions at that time that make transaction fees increase.

Pools mostly choose transactions that pay more but that doesn't mean that's the reason why their fees increase congestion is the reason and Ordinals is the culprit.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 01:05:33 AM by BitMaxz »
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Offline Yamane_Keto

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Re: DO NOT OVERPAY your Bitcoin transaction fees.
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2024, 02:28:30 AM »
Sending Bitcoin with an overpay amount is mostly carried out by newbies. Newbies are the ones guilty of making high-cost transaction fees of bitcoin.

I remember years back when I didn't know how to reduce the transaction fee of bitcoin using a trust wallet. It is always a price that appears on my trust wallet, I will send my bitcoin like that without having a thought of how to reduce the gas fee.

bad software wallet will always make you pay higher fees. Even if the “memepool fees” are low, those wallets have a bad estimate of the fees, cannot control the number of inputs (coin control), do not have an ideal algorithm to reduce the number of inputs according to the fees. some bad wallets, if you receive $100 in address A, $50 in address B, and $20 dollars in address C. If you want to spend $60 and your wallet wallet choose to spending from B and C, then you will pay higher fees, no matter how low the “memepool fees” are.


Pools mostly choose transactions that pay more but that doesn't mean that's the reason why their fees increase congestion is the reason and Ordinals is the culprit.
Although there is Unconfirmed TXs are 284,112 still Avg Block Fees 0.5171 BTC/block, which means that the spam does not come from beginners.

 

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