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Author Topic: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum  (Read 12153 times)

Offline Tokenista - Rev. Sasha Van Kush

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The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« on: November 28, 2020, 03:25:32 AM »
I will explain in Detail because some continue to ask "Why create another Ethereum Clone", and I have responded with the Clear Human Reason, which is that if we make ETH Chains local or business based, or Government owned in some cases even, then the Technology and Currencies are more well distributed which furthers the goal of Decentralization and is simply good for Crypto Technology because it sends it into more people's hands in the Future.

But now I will explain maybe a "why" that has been missed:

Ethereum is a IaaS, like AWS, or Azure, then it is also at the same time a PaaS like Android, as you can create an entire system of dApps and Bots.

Having a Corporate, or State, or Church, or Temple Ethereum chain is like launching your own Cloud, with no Datacenter but instead Miners setting up nodes, with everything stored and pushed through the Blockchain.

TRON and EOS are Ethereum Clones with changes or in the case of TRON, using old ETH Tech to advance in Java. There was what could be called the Parable of ETH Classic, where when the Fork happened it was unneeded and only happened because of a Hacker stealing from the largest Exchange hosted on ETH, EtherDelta. The Hacker took so many ETH, many wanted to go back to before the hack. But many did not, so there was a Fork and something of a Fued, but both survived and people's funds existed on both chains. Showing what makes the Coin is actually the Community.

Which is why there should be local chains.

TRON has a perfect example of what can be done. Metamask is confusing, TRON Link makes the ETH Environment better with its GUI, TRON seemed to be geared towards UX.

Why not have everyone in the world use these chains, and work on Local projects on chains in which they hold larger stakes and can mine more efficiently.

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The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« on: November 28, 2020, 03:25:32 AM »

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Offline Tokenista - Rev. Sasha Van Kush

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2020, 03:29:44 AM »
Currencies, both fiat and crypto, don't actually contain any value they simply represent value. They are called Trade Instruments, meaning, instruments that facilitate trade. Stocks are an example of trade instruments that aren't money, they have no actual value but they represent a share of a company and the company itself does the work that turns the profits that gives a share its theoretical value. All trade Instruments work along the same lines: Fiat is traded by banks and Foreign Exchange companies, Stock is traded on Stock Exchanges such as the New York Stock Exchange and Cryptocurrencies are traded on various Cryptocurrency Exchanges. All of their values are representations of real things, for example Stocks Represent created and distributed goods and services by a particular company, while fiat currency represents created and distributed goods and services of a nation. Both change based on industrial/technological/scientific/developmemtal, etc advancements within those companies or nations, as well as various factors such as Trade Volume and Inflation, War, or Political Upheaval. For example, because ISIS Soldiers stole tons of Gold from the Bank of Mosul, Iraqi Dinar are now not worth as much, because they don't have the Gold to back their currency, and their country is in a Civil War. If in the next 5-10 years Iraq were to become a Peaceful place where people wanted to invest their money, Iraqi Dinar would go back up. It is best to trade your trade instruments at the highest value possible and use them to buy real items, such as: Precious metals, Livestock, Software, Machines, Produce/Seeds, Land, Realestate, etc and then use those to get more trade instruments.

Trade volume is how many people are buying and selling a particular currency or stock. The more people who are buying it, the higher the value will rise.

An example of Inflation is when the United States starts printing too much money. When this happens a dollar starts being worth less, which in turn means it will take more money to buy the same materials. For instance, if you go to the store and one day Milk is $3/Gallon but then you go a few months later and notice it is $5/Gallon, this is because of inflation. Inflation also drives things like the minimum wage and social security checks, which are usually based on the cost of living. Cryptocurrencies with no cap will eventually inflate into eternity and lose value, unless they have a high trade volume.

Supply and Demand is the comparison of how many people want something against how many there are of that thing. For example, when Apple creates a new IPhone the value is higher than it really should be and as the technology slightly or drastically ages, the value goes down.

A Whale is a person who has a large quantity of a certain trade instrument and uses that to effect the markets. For example, if someone has 51% of a particular stock they could either sell them all quickly which would bring the value of that stock down, or they could hold on to all of them which makes them more rare and makes them more valuable.

Bubbles are when something is artificially high in value, 2 examples of this are: IPhones as mentioned before, and Gasoline. Gasoline raises in value based simply on the speculation that "one day we might run out", this creates bubbles which raises prices. But Gasoline will probably be replaced by ethanol before it ever even gets close to being used up.

Look at different exchanges- Sometimes you can get more on one site than you can on another site, for the same coins. And sometimes you can even buy coins on one site and sell them on another site for more. This works better when you are trading Crypto to Crypto rather than Crypto to fiat.

Use coins to create goods and services- Don't just use coins to buy random things, buy software and other goods that you can use to produce things or spend them on things like textbooks. Create a product if you can.
Promote your favorite coins- If you have a favorite coin and buy some, don't forget to share it on social media.
Create a currency- Satoshi gave out the Bitcoin source code so that people could make their own currencies.
Create an exchange- Transaction fees can earn the owners a lot of coins and you can help fledgling altcoins by offering them on your exchange.

Don't buy above spot- If you are trading coins for precious metals, check the current global value of that metal and buy as close to that value as you can.
Invest in foreign countries- Don't think America is the be all end all.

Offline Tokenista - Rev. Sasha Van Kush

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2020, 12:51:45 AM »
Someone brought this up on Bitcointalk

Quote
every one can create many things, but it will not be more popular just only for friens community, need some unique and supporting of mass media

You do not need that at all.

If I right now had a Sandwhich shop or Pizza shop, with lots of materials that might go bad, and not many people coming because of Covid, more so a few months ago but still now Business is low.

Say I own that shop, I am paying for Rent, and Lights, and everything. Maybe I have kept all my employees on because of the Virus trying to support them, maybe I couldn't. So now I need more money.

Think for a second about this:
If we look at the Giftcard aspect of Bitcoin and Crypto generally, if Grandma buys Billy a Bitcoin or part of one, he can either hold it or go spend it on his favorite things, where Bitcoin is accepted, or he can Buy a Giftcard on Gyft, etc. So we have to acknowledge that part of Crypto, where it is bought to be spent.

So if I am the shopowner with spoilage happening, and no one coming in, I could issue a Giftcard type currency. Or Coupon.

50% of all orders can be paid for in our currency, or 1 Crypto purchase per customer. Now, say you make an Ethereum Clone, Tokens would be easier but for the sake of this thread let's say the Pizza shop makes PizzaETH Chain. Now, they make an ANN thread here on Bitcointalk and say:

Pizza Coin, 2% Premine for Corporate use, 1 in store Pizza Purchase by Crypto per person, join the Pizza Mining Pool.

Pizza Pool also mines ETH and ETC and other ETH Chains.


So now the Pizza shop is mining ETH, they can say 10,000 PIZZA coins for 1 Pizza, until the coin is listed and traded regularly.

When the Price goes up the Pizza store says "1,000 PIZZA for a Pizza" and maybe eventually 50 PIZZA for a Pizza, but the shop owner is still holding all the PIZZA traded at 10,000 per Pizza. So there is incentive to hold, because if the price goes up you actually get more Pizzas, or you can sell the Coin.

And anyone could do this.

This could be done for actual gift cards, or in the McDonalds Monopoly peel sticker prizes "You won 100 PIZZA coins!", or at the State Fair as Coupons, at Venues for Concert or Sporting event Tickets, or by a City Bus App for Tickets, or any system that itself creates a product that can be traded for the Crypto product.

And, because it is Ethereum based, now people are making apps, and creating PIZZA games.

And any company could do this.


Offline Senin

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2020, 08:06:35 AM »
Well, if programmers see the need for ethereum clones, let them create them, and we will already assess the practical need for their creation.  If clones significantly improve this coin, then they will be in demand and remain on the cryptocurrency market.  Otherwise, they will go into oblivion, like many others.  Besides, good competition is always the way for further development.

Offline Lukamaxin

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2020, 08:38:44 AM »
The ether price not touch $1000 at now so many traders think that it's price not increase it is freezing but truth is today 8.3% increase today .the improvement not to satisfied the traders so they argue for cloning ethereum.

Offline Tokenista - Rev. Sasha Van Kush

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 04:10:38 PM »
I'm not a developer or anything close to it. Can you point out the main advantages and ELI5?

What are these local chains for?

Can we also refrain comparing Ethereum with Tron and Eos while discussing this?
And by the way, Metamask isn't complicated at all.

What do you mean the main advantages and ELI5? I think the advantages were explained here. The PIZZA coin market, from the example, is something the shop owner can sell his own PIZZA coins to, making it like a Giftcard market where people are giving him money in return for future PIZZA.

They can be for anything, but the Local Dev can see it as a cheaper ETH or Sandbox chain, depending on the value of the Currency. And if the Coin Total Cap is good, and the Block number, etc, then getting in while it is that cheap is good, because as a Coin with a purpose it will likely go up from there.

TRON and EOS actually are ETH, so I was not comparing them actually, but explaining different directions taken when Cloning ETH. Those are ETH Clone examples, no matter how different they seem from ETH.

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 04:10:38 PM »


Offline Tokenista - Rev. Sasha Van Kush

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2020, 04:21:18 PM »
Also, you may Fork your own Clone.

The substantiality of this is that if I start a plain Jane ETH Clone, but build a good community, and then we eventually have 1,000 people mining and they decide they have a new idea, we can all form consensus and Fork to the new chain where everyone can upload their wallets and have the same balance.


Offline not1

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2020, 04:29:41 PM »
Also, you may Fork your own Clone.

The substantiality of this is that if I start a plain Jane ETH Clone, but build a good community, and then we eventually have 1,000 people mining and they decide they have a new idea, we can all form consensus and Fork to the new chain where everyone can upload their wallets and have the same balance.
I feel ethereum currently rises quite slowly but still ok, no need to humanily?

Offline Tokenista - Rev. Sasha Van Kush

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2021, 03:18:04 PM »
ELI5 is Explain It Like I'm 5 y/o.

Ok,
So ETH is expensive now, it was not long ago when ETH was $5 or $7, and people did not see how it could grow much bigger, while people on the outside of the Crypto world were just hearing about ETH in the news for the first time, while still figuring out Bitcoin which was like $1,000 or so. Steemit was also new at that time, so that will make a good time marker.

Now it is much more expensive, and cluttered, there are great tools like State of the dApps to help you sift through it all, but it is Cluttered. And ETH itself is expensive now, and the Transfer Fees are no longer Convenient, it is not good for Micropayments.

So creating your own Chain, for a City, State or Nation, or University, Church, Temple, etc, is:

1. At first it is like a Sandbox Testnet, but real. So everyone in your Community with Programing skills gets to build things, or even "steal" good things straight from ETH Blockchain and Launch them on yours. This allows a new Organism to grow with your community at the center, one day it could even be as well known as ETH with your community at the center, with their Software being the most used, and most Widespread.

2. This also opens not just value, but space, like Storage Space. The Blockchain is less cluttered, even your online searchability becomes better, instead of someone searching "Ethereum State if the dApps", and finding the University Gridcoin application at number #1357 in the Rankings, they search "University Chain" on Google, and find it the Gridcoin application on the first page of the Google Search. It makes it like a Dedicated Data center for your Community.

3. You are the biggest holders. Not only is it cheaper to start with, your Community will get all the cheap ones before other people really learn about it, because they either just don't know, or are using ETH and think yours is a stupid Shitcoin (that's what people say to trash new Coins) until they are $0.10 each abd ranked #100 on CoinMarketCap and suddenly they want to take a look. So your Community builds their wealth with the price.

4. ETH hosted seminars for years and probably still do, meet ups, everything to teach people how to do this. And the Chain itself is built to Easily Build a Testnet, and then to make it real by simply engaging in it as a Community.

Offline Tokenista - Rev. Sasha Van Kush

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2022, 09:02:02 PM »
We are going to do this in Dallas in the Coming months, and probably end up making Several for different Organizations.

Offline Tokenista - Rev. Sasha Van Kush

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2022, 03:49:42 PM »
Everyone in the Government is about to find out how Blockchain works, then they aren't going to have jobs anymore.

We are about to replace most of the Welfare provided by State and Federal Governments.

And because they already despise the people using the systems (UI, SNAP, WIC, CHIP, etc), it won't even be very hard.

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Re: The Argument for Cloning Ethereum
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2024, 10:12:13 AM »
I will explain in Detail because some continue to ask "Why create another Ethereum Clone", and I have responded with the Clear Human Reason, which is that if we make ETH Chains local or business based, or Government owned in some cases even, then the Technology and Currencies are more well distributed which furthers the goal of Decentralization and is simply good for Crypto Technology because it sends it into more people's hands in the Future.


Creating more centralized chains (like a business or a locals chain) won't make things more decentralized

You are confusing decentralized and distributed  systems

More chains , more distributed
But if the chains are centralized,  it won't be decentralized,  as we will still have few points of failure
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