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Author Topic: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?  (Read 3743 times)

Offline yohananaomi

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2024, 11:48:23 PM »
Yeah , after ETF approved, I think the number of investors will increase, and the price of bitcoin will increase significantly.
BTC spot ETF si market poison, I think it's true, poison that make people want to invest in crypto currency.
That's good.
We hope that it will be like what you said, and of course it will have a good impact—maybe not now because it is too early to be able to produce that, but in the future.As long as the ETF provides a positive side, it will certainly make many investors continue to be interested in the crypto money market. Once again, it may take time, and we have to be patient for new things.​

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2024, 11:48:23 PM »

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Offline MrSpasybo

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2024, 01:44:02 AM »
Grow some balls and a spine!
Reported

@TomPluz @sirty143 @alltalk
I always like this forum because of the relaxed climate here. That's why I'm not going to react. I don't know if you are able to handle this kind of people, until now I never saw one of them on this forum. Through teleporting many new users are entering, unfortunately teleporting doesn't filter. If user pakhitheboss had reacted with the same tone this guy treated him the situation would have degenerated into classic forum bickering. Let him do it, others will start doing the same. Bickering everywhere. Many will refrain from posting. Active participation will decrease. People will leave. It’s up to you.
Well, please calm down Peter90, I believe that Stompix just wants to discuss freely, we should not guess other people's attitudes just from a few sentences on the forum.

AltcoinsTalks is a friendly forum, I don't want anything bad to happen to any member. I created this topic not to create discord, we all come to the market to find profit, not to find hostility.

No, I think Bitcoin Spot ETF isn't poison, It's a good thing which will make bitcoin price will increase. Why we think It's poison ?
I think ETF proposal is the result of researchbefore. So, Bitcoiners already think it will improve the bitcoin price when bullish
I hope you will re-read the content of my topic: I believe that the BTC Spot ETF will provide bullish momentum for BTC and ALTS in the medium term. But in long-term, looking at the decentralized and self-custodial nature of the assets that BTC is built on, the BTC Spot ETF could be poison to the crypto market.
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Offline Captain Corporate

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2024, 02:23:11 AM »
The fact that a trillion+ dollar company would start to put in some money into bitcoin means a lot. I mean we are talking about a situation that would get us higher, and it should very well be something that will benefit everyone. I get that its not going to be all that confusing to start, but it is definitely a thing that we should care about. A company that size would not end up putting in a few million dollars, they are so rich that putting in a few billion dollars wouldn't really matter. I think its quite important that we end up with something that would give us the best benefit if we could, and they will increase the price a lot.

Offline EthereumDev_

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2024, 09:17:36 AM »
The fact that a trillion+ dollar company would start to put in some money into bitcoin means a lot. I mean we are talking about a situation that would get us higher, and it should very well be something that will benefit everyone. I get that its not going to be all that confusing to start, but it is definitely a thing that we should care about. A company that size would not end up putting in a few million dollars, they are so rich that putting in a few billion dollars wouldn't really matter. I think its quite important that we end up with something that would give us the best benefit if we could, and they will increase the price a lot.
It will not be easy for a company to put that amount of money into Bitcoin because if it is a company, then it will definitely think about the risks involved, and of course it has to be considered or get approval from a team that has carried out a proper analysis because, as far as I know, the company will carry out a deeper search before determining future steps, which means the company will consider it when making decisions.

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2024, 10:22:25 PM »
I hope you will re-read the content of my topic: I believe that the BTC Spot ETF will provide bullish momentum for BTC and ALTS in the medium term. But in long-term, looking at the decentralized and self-custodial nature of the assets that BTC is built on, the BTC Spot ETF could be poison to the crypto market.

If you meant short/medium term by month long, then al the signs point at you pretty much nailing it!
Now, when's time for the lethal poison injection, we stagnate below 100k till I retire? That's two decades!  ;)

Anyhow, I'm all ears on all forums to hear how the attitude about ETF has changed, it's such a swing it's beyond ridiculous funny!
First everyone as happy we had a jump before the 11th and everyone was choo choo mode, then it came the sell-off and I count hear my thought from scream of the manipulation, wall street is killing the coin, grayscale is sabotaging, etc etc.
Now another 1800, price is up, wallstreet money again good, ETF was a success!

It's so refreshing not having to day trade, no caring for 10-20% and being in for the long run so you can just grab your popcorn and watch this show relaxed from your massage chair, just poking now and there fun at the whole deal.

The fact that a trillion+ dollar company would start to put in some money into bitcoin means a lot. I mean we are talking about a situation that would get us higher, and it should very well be something that will benefit everyone. I get that its not going to be all that confusing to start, but it is definitely a thing that we should care about. A company that size would not end up putting in a few million dollars, they are so rich that putting in a few billion dollars wouldn't really matter.

Blackrock doesn't have trillions in their pockets, they have trillions in assets under management, their total equity is much , much smaller, something around 40 billions.Even their total asset si way smaller, somewhere around a hundred billions but this is also liabilities.

What is pushing now the price up is not Blackrock, but your ordinally people buying shares though them.
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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2024, 11:29:43 PM »
2. In the medium term (several years):
  • BTC Spot ETF allows more US investors to access BTC without knowledge of blockchain and crypto. Millions or tens of millions of American investors in crypto is a huge achievement that Spot ETF can reach in just a short time, which BTC has not been able to do in more than a decade.
  • BTC officially joins the traditional financial market in US, becoming an asset for people to diversify their investment portfolios.
  • Increase the legality of BTC globally, increasing the possibility of approval in many countries.
  • Most importantly: attracting large cash flows, creating momentum to help BTC prices and the entire crypto market have impressive growth in the 2024 cycle and many future cycles. I think profit is the reason many investors want to look for this market[1].

What is your view on the implications of BTC Spot ETF many years from now? Do you think ETFs are threatening the true value of BTC? Are you only interested in the profits that BTC Spot ETF will bring in the short term? Do you think Satoshi Nakamoto will support BTC Spot ETF?
I am a BTC holder, I don't care much about short-term fluctuations, whether up or down because I continue to DCA BTC until halving or even until 2025.

I only focus on the positive impact in the medium term: BTC price will be supported and continuously increase, helping the entire crypto market grow and bring profits to token holders. My goal is profit. When profits meet my investment criteria, I will take profits and wait for new opportunities.

So for me the BTC spot ETF is a blessing, not a market poison.

BTC and the crypto market exist in their own right, if it cannot resist the "poison", it should disappear and be seen as a failed economic experiment  8)

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2024, 06:38:50 AM »
Poison that can make everyone buy Bitcoin, that is the current function of poison when Bitcoin enters the Spot ETF market.
I also find this phenomenon very exciting because I am sure that Bitcoin is slowly continuing to rise in price.

The news is everywhere and Bitcoin prices continue to rise due to news indications about the Bitcoin ETF being received.
If I have just 1 Bitcoin then I will definitely get something very valuable for my retirement savings, Bitcoin is poison to make me rich. lol
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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2024, 06:38:50 AM »


Offline DAMKAR

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2024, 07:13:35 AM »
Poison that can make everyone buy Bitcoin, that is the current function of poison when Bitcoin enters the Spot ETF market.
I also find this phenomenon very exciting because I am sure that Bitcoin is slowly continuing to rise in price.

The news is everywhere and Bitcoin prices continue to rise due to news indications about the Bitcoin ETF being received.
If I have just 1 Bitcoin then I will definitely get something very valuable for my retirement savings, Bitcoin is poison to make me rich. lol

Poison which attracts everyone to buy bitcoin..It's true. Bitcoin price is increasing at this week and touch $ 47K.
By seeing this phenomena, I think bitcoin price will touch $ 50K easily. But be careful, hopefully there is no negative issues attack bitcoin at this season. Because many people wait for the bullish season

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2024, 05:59:09 AM »
Poison that can make everyone buy Bitcoin, that is the current function of poison when Bitcoin enters the Spot ETF market.
I also find this phenomenon very exciting because I am sure that Bitcoin is slowly continuing to rise in price.

The news is everywhere and Bitcoin prices continue to rise due to news indications about the Bitcoin ETF being received.
If I have just 1 Bitcoin then I will definitely get something very valuable for my retirement savings, Bitcoin is poison to make me rich. lol

Poison which attracts everyone to buy bitcoin..It's true. Bitcoin price is increasing at this week and touch $ 47K.
By seeing this phenomena, I think bitcoin price will touch $ 50K easily. But be careful, hopefully there is no negative issues attack bitcoin at this season. Because many people wait for the bullish season
According to the title that we have all seen and I gave that statement to my post.
And it's true that it's like poison, maybe Bitcoin is for some people something that is very volatile and scary to invest in.

But for me, who is quite familiar with the characteristics, trading and security of Bitcoin, it is a good poison for investing and I have to know where to go when I have to buy Bitcoin.
I mean, don't make the mistake of buying when Bitcoin goes up and selling when Bitcoin goes down, but at least I bought Bitcoin for the long term and held it in the Electrum wallet.
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Offline MrSpasybo

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2024, 05:37:03 PM »
According to the title that we have all seen and I gave that statement to my post.
And it's true that it's like poison, maybe Bitcoin is for some people something that is very volatile and scary to invest in.

But for me, who is quite familiar with the characteristics, trading and security of Bitcoin, it is a good poison for investing and I have to know where to go when I have to buy Bitcoin.
I mean, don't make the mistake of buying when Bitcoin goes up and selling when Bitcoin goes down, but at least I bought Bitcoin for the long term and held it in the Electrum wallet.
I think I have presented my opinion quite thoroughly in the content of the topic, but perhaps I should clarify it more.

BTC Spot ETF has a positive impact because it helps promote the price increase of BTC, while also helping the crypto market gain new cash flow for growth in the medium term.

But in the long term, if investors only want to buy BTC Spot ETF because of its ease, they will not have the need to self-custody assets, not be interested in blockchain technology and the financial revolution that BTC is leading. If this becomes too popular, BTC will turn into a financial tool in the hands of Wall Street and not the decentralized financial solution that Satoshi created. I count this as poison for BTC.

I am a BTC holder, I don't care much about short-term fluctuations, whether up or down because I continue to DCA BTC until halving or even until 2025.

I only focus on the positive impact in the medium term: BTC price will be supported and continuously increase, helping the entire crypto market grow and bring profits to token holders. My goal is profit. When profits meet my investment criteria, I will take profits and wait for new opportunities.

So for me the BTC spot ETF is a blessing, not a market poison.

BTC and the crypto market exist in their own right, if it cannot resist the "poison", it should disappear and be seen as a failed economic experiment  8)
Yeah, I understand this, most current BTC investors just need profits and the BTC Spot ETF is a huge success attracting billions of dollars into BTC and the crypto market, helping BTC increase in price strongly from $25K by mid-2023 to $50K currently.

What I worry about is not the BTC price chart, but the decentralization and independence of BTC in the future.
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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2024, 03:07:29 PM »
But in the long term, if investors only want to buy BTC Spot ETF because of its ease, they will not have the need to self-custody assets, not be interested in blockchain technology and the financial revolution that BTC is leading. If this becomes too popular, BTC will turn into a financial tool in the hands of Wall Street and not the decentralized financial solution that Satoshi created. I count this as poison for BTC.

Unfortunately that boat has sailed a long time ago and this comes from a bitcoin maxi!

The bright part in it is that those so called investors are people who wouldn't have chosen Bitcoin for the technicalities behind it anyhow, if they would have liked that they would have bought and kept their coins in self custody earlier, if they are only tested in the $ then it makes little difference in them holding ETFs or IOU paper promises from CEXs.
When I check adoption rates I'm always looking at another things, not the price, more like the number of new inputs and outputs in transactions, the distribution of coins, the volume outside money transfer from and in CEXs and those numbers are just a pale comparison to the price evolution, they are moving at snail pace comparing to the news spreading across the globe and the hype on social media.
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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2024, 03:37:58 PM »
I mean, don't make the mistake of buying when Bitcoin goes up and selling when Bitcoin goes down, but at least I bought Bitcoin for the long term and held it in the Electrum wallet.
Its mean sell your bitcoin during have good news and buy back later when bad news about bitcoin sharing, but have difference way for investors buy bitcoin right now. Most of them excited for investing when market trend stable but panic for holding or want to accumulate during market drop or crash.
I agree with your opinion how most important for investing in bitcoin when price dropping with many people panic to buy back and make difference thing with the other selling bitcoin have higher price or market positive trend.

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2024, 04:58:05 PM »
It is only if the US is no longer the world power that there will be DE dollarization. As long as the US is still in power, USD remains the primary reserve funds.

Hi SC,
I think you misunderstood what de-dollarization means

De-dollarization doesn't mean that the $ is worthless.
De-dollarization doesn't mean that nobody uses the $.
De-dollarization doesn't mean that the $ is not the most used currency.

"De-dollarization describes a process of moving away from the world’s reliance on the U.S. dollar (USD) as the chief reserve currency."

De-dollarization describes a process, Sim Card
This process is already taking place, as you can see from this chart





I'm not a friend of Wikipedia, but under De-dollarization they offer a whole list of instances for de-dollarization
These instances refer to events of the past, events which have already taken place.
De-dollarization, this process, is not a possible event of the future. It has already started, as you can read below.


Trading oil or other commodities

Argentina
Starting from early 2023, Argentina plans to join Brazil in paying for Chinese imports using the yuan instead of U.S. dollars. The country's goal is to safeguard its diminishing reserves of U.S. dollars. Argentina has been facing a significant decline in agricultural exports due to a severe drought, resulting in reduced inflow of dollars. In April 2023, Argentina intends to purchase approximately US$1 billion worth of Chinese imports using the yuan. Following that, the country aims to pay around $790 million worth of monthly imports in the Chinese yuan. After China and Argentina declared in April that their swap line had been opened, Argentina was able to utilise the equivalent of 1.04 billion yuan to pay for Chinese imports in May. The line was then increased to $18 billion over the following three years in June, during Massa's visit to China.

Brazil
In late March 2023, China and Brazil finalized an agreement to conduct trade using their respective currencies.

Bolivia
In April 2023, Bolivian President Luis Arce revealed that the government is actively considering the adoption of China's yuan as an alternative to the U.S. dollar for conducting international trade. The decision stems from Bolivia's ongoing challenge of insufficient liquidity in domestic markets, with shortages of U.S. dollars escalating since early 2023, due to the declining net international reserves.

China
Since 2011, China is gradually shifting from trade in US dollar and in favour of Chinese yuan, and in March 2018, China started buying oil in gold-backed yuan.
In March 2022, multiple reports claimed that Saudi Arabia was in talks with China about trading Saudi oil and gas to China in Chinese yuan instead of dollars.
In December 2022 at China - GCC Summit, President Xi Jinping called for Oil trade payments to be settled at yuan. Foreign Minister Wang Yi stated that Chinese-Arab relations experienced a "historic improvement."

Europe
Immediately at the start of the War in Ukraine, mostly Western countries imposed heavy sanctions on Russian commodities and banking sector. As a response, on 31 March 2022 Russian president Vladimir Putin signed a decree mandating unfriendly countries from April 1 to pay the natural gas imports in rubles. European leaders have initially rejected paying for deliveries in rubles, marking that such a move would undermine sanctions already imposed on Moscow. In April 2022, four European gas companies made trade payment settlements in rubles.

Ghana
On 24 November 2022, Vice President Mahamudu Bawumia stated that they are working to buy Oil in Gold and he added "The barter of gold for oil represents a major structural change."

India
India is exploring ways to strengthen its economy by reducing its reliance on the US dollar. The country believes that decreasing demand for the dollar in international trade can help stabilize its national currency, the rupee (₹). India's leaders have taken note of the trend of de-dollarization among other countries and are now seeking to increase trade using their own currency. To achieve this goal, India plans to convert the rupee (₹) into a foreign currency and increase its share of global trade.

Iran
As a result of US sanctions, Iran has tried hard to reduce its reliance on the dollar. The country has been seeking alternative ways or methods in order to conduct international trade utilizing diverse currencies such as the Euro. The Islamic Republic of Iran is also striving to apply blockchain technology and digital currencies in order to bypass the international financial system and likewise to reduce the effect of sanctions.

Malaysia
Due to the fluctuations in the dollar in recent years, there are countries like Malaysia that are seeking an appropriate alternative to the dollar in global trade transactions to strengthen their economy. On the other hand, according to Malaysia, the de-dollarization and lower demand of the country in order to apply the dollar in commercial transactions will be able to provide the ground for the stabilization of the ringgit (its local currency). The president of this country mentioned that with the economic power given to Asian countries among China/Japan, there isn’t any reason for Malaysia to remain dependent on the dollar, and on the other hand, the central banks of these two countries (i.e. China and Malaysia) have begun their discussions in regard to the implementation of trade in each other's currencies.[30]

Russia
In August 2022, Turkey and Russia agreed to use rubles in trade of the natural gas.
In September 2022, Gazprom CEO Alexey Miller said that they have signed an agreement to make trade payments in rubles and yuan instead of US dollars.
In November 2022, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak confirmed that all gas supplied to China via Siberia are settled in rubles and yuan.
On March 23, 2022, Putin signed an order forbidding "non-friendly" countries (including EU countries, United States and Japan) from buying Russian gas in any other currency besides the Russian ruble in the wake of sanctions given in aftermath of 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. As of 2022, Russia is the world's biggest gas exporter, making 17% of world gas export.

Saudi Arabia
In January 2023, Finance Minister of Saudi Arabia Mohammed Al-Jadaan stated that it is open to trade in other currencies besides the US dollar, and this expression is considered to be the first time in 48 years.

Turkey
The Turkish president has introduced a fresh strategy to decrease dependence on the US dollar in global commerce. The aim is to establish trade without the use of the dollar with Turkey's international trading associates. The president has indicated a willingness to engage in trade with China using local currencies, indicating a shift away from the dollar. Additionally, talks have been held about the possibility of replacing the US dollar with another national currency in transactions with Iran. This choice is motivated by both political and economic factors, as Turkey strives to support its domestic currency by distancing itself from the US dollar.[39]

Venezuela
In August 2018, Venezuela declared that it would price its oil in euros, yuan, rubles, and other currencies.



Bilateral trade agreements

India-Russia
Before 1991, Soviet Union and India traded in rupee-ruble exchange during Cold War. Mutual trading between India and Russia is done mostly in rubles and rupees instead of dollars and euros. In March 2022, India and Russia entered for a Rupee–Ruble Trade Arrangement.

Australia/Russia/Japan/Brazil/Iran
It made agreements with Australia, Russia, Japan, Brazil, and Iran to trade in national currencies. It has been reported that in the first quarter of 2020 the share of the dollar in the bilateral trade between China and Russia fell below 50 percent for the first time. In 2011, Japan made an agreement with China to trade in national currencies. Sino-Japanese trade had a value of US$300 billion.

Brazil-China
In March 2013, during the BRICS summit, Brazil made an agreement with China to trade in Brazilian real and Chinese yuan.

Australia-China
In 2013, Australia made an agreement with China to trade in national currencies.

INSTEX
In 2015, China launched CIPS, a payment system which offers clearing and settlement services for its participants in cross-border Renminbi payments and trade as an alternative to SWIFT. Since the end of 2019, the EU countries established INSTEX, a European special-purpose vehicle (SPV) to facilitate non-USD and non-SWIFT transactions with Iran to avoid breaking U.S. sanctions. On 11 February 2019, Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov stated that Russia would be interested in participating in INSTEX.

Iran-EU
In March 2020, the first Iran-EU INSTEX transaction was concluded. It covered an import of medical equipment to combat the COVID-19 outbreak in Iran. European countries said in March 2023 they had decided to end a scheme put in place in 2019 to allow trade with Iran and protect companies doing business with it from US sanctions, but it was only a single one transaction traded.

Russia-Iran
In July 2022, Russia and Iran made modifications in their Bilateral trade to reduce the dependency of US dollar. The new monetary system could mean the debts can be settled in their own countries and could reduce the demand for US dollars by 3 billion a year. In January 2023, Russia and Iran were planning to trade with gold backed cryptocurrencies as an alternative to US dollar.

Southeast Asian
A group of Southeast Asian countries in the region, such as Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Cambodia, and Thailand, are currently contemplating the process of de-dollarization in order to diminish their dependence on the US dollar within their economies. These nations have voiced apprehensions regarding the volatility of the dollar's value and the American government's utilization of the dollar embargo mechanism. Consequently, they have developed a keen interest in mitigating their vulnerability to the dollar and exploring alternative currencies.

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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2024, 04:49:19 AM »

Its mean sell your bitcoin during have good news and buy back later when bad news about bitcoin sharing, but have difference way for investors buy bitcoin right now. Most of them excited for investing when market trend stable but panic for holding or want to accumulate during market drop or crash.


Actually, the essence of everything is to keep calm and hold for long term investment, if we want to invest in bitcoin.  Because bitcoin is volatile and there is always negative news.  Don't panic sell.  Bitcoin will strengthen again, that's what usually happens.
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Re: BTC Spot ETF is market poison?
« Reply #74 on: February 28, 2024, 07:28:04 PM »
Unfortunately that boat has sailed a long time ago and this comes from a bitcoin maxi!

The bright part in it is that those so called investors are people who wouldn't have chosen Bitcoin for the technicalities behind it anyhow, if they would have liked that they would have bought and kept their coins in self custody earlier, if they are only tested in the $ then it makes little difference in them holding ETFs or IOU paper promises from CEXs.
When I check adoption rates I'm always looking at another things, not the price, more like the number of new inputs and outputs in transactions, the distribution of coins, the volume outside money transfer from and in CEXs and those numbers are just a pale comparison to the price evolution, they are moving at snail pace comparing to the news spreading across the globe and the hype on social media.
I cannot predict their investment trends in the future, but if possible, I would like them to become users of the Bitcoin network and other modern blockchains instead of becoming BTC Spot ETF holders. Some of my friends in the US have also changed direction, not wanting to buy BTC but buying BTC Spot ETF because it is easier to declare taxes. This is what I see and I'm a little worried.

I also hope that thanks to BTC Spot ETF, BTC will be promoted and have more users, the decentralized value of BTC will be emphasized and not overshadowed by BTC-based products on stock exchanges.
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