[Suggestion] Suggesting that the Negative Karma Button be Scrapped

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Hi everyone and @ our able admin,

I am suggesting that the Negative Karma Button be Scrapped for every user aside from the admin, the president and forum moderators.

Why am I suggesting this?
1. Users are likely to abuse this button for no other but selfish reasons.
2. We already have the "Report" button on every post/comment which can be used in place of a negative Karma.

My thought 💭
Explaining further, my reasons why I think we don't need the Negative Karma Button is,
- Concerning abuse, users can selfishly use this button to attack other forum users for no just cause, and worst of it all, the user attacked won't even know who attacked him or her, and this encourages the attacker to keep doing it.

- Concerning the report button, we already have a report button, which users can use in place of giving user a Negative Karma, I feel it's better for users to report a bad post/comment to the mods or who ever such reports go to, let the persons in this position take necessary actions deemed fit for that post, for post/comment truly deserving a negative Karma, the admin or mod can give the required number of negative karma to such post/comment depending on the gravity or how bad the post/comment is, or can just delete such post/comment, or can do both (i.e, give the user negative Karma, and as well delete the post).

So, in the nutshell, only positive Karma Button and the report button should be made available to users, that is, users have three actions they can perform on another user's post/comment. 

• Read a post/comment, find it interesting and give a "positive Karma"
• Read a post/comment, find it not so interesting or neutral, ignore and move on to the next post/comment
• Read a post/comment, find it totally uninteresting, scam like, or totally gabbage, "Report" that post/comment to the admin/moderators to take appropriate action on it.

Benefits
1. This, I believe will encourage users to use the positive Karma Button more often, for the growth of users on this forum, and the growth of the forum in general, for when people out there see that earning positive Karma for making good posts here is not so hard, they will be encouraged to join the forum.
2. This will completely eradicate abuse of the Negative Karma Button for selfish/personal reasons.
3. This will create a more positive environment and mindset for every user of this forum, like I said before, users will be happy to use the positive Karma Button more often, knowing that never again will they get an unjust or undeserving negative Karma from unknown users.

This is my honest suggestion, and I hope you guys find it well detailed enough.

[Ambatman]

Okay this!!!.... I never thought of this. It's a nice idea though. Especially the part of letting negative karma rest upon a selected few, especially the moderators or maybe still the anticipated trust guru. Your POV is attractive,  I myself support this but let's see the outlook of the admin.  There might be a reason why this method has been functioning for years. Like imagining that Bitcointalk had a demerit system, many individuals with potential to become legendary would have been held back by actions of those they ain't in agreement with. Let's see more peoples outlook though. It's an interesting idea if I do say so myself.

[SmartGold01]

I don't see any reason to give someone a negative karma because here is a forum and everyone must not be up and doing ( I mean, not everyone must be up-to your educational standard), we have small, medium and high. People will with little or no knowledge can be given a freedom to read/comment without attaching any negative karma on what they say because they aren't up-to standard. My own suggestion should be that, negative karma can be given to any user whom is proven to be a scammer by the forum court.

Then only admin and mod as you said can likely issue such profile negative karma since I believe negative karma represent "negative trust" It shouldn't be visible where every user can easily gives someone a negative karma. At least putting it inside a profile, when you click the user overall profile then you can see that option of negative karma, or possibly as you said only the admin can give such user negative karma.

Then another suggestion is to restrict negative karma from Beginners to Senior members, I believe this sets of users are very aggressive and they can easy get weird over every little thing, since the forum weren't that easy as they think. Everyone "Even" user who signed up here would always want the forum to function the way they want, without knowing they must spend time to get acquainted with forum before thinking of any new implementation or changes that could suit them during their use.

Again, if the forum gives everyone that opportunity to be adjusting everything they needs then I must say that we could hardly see this forum stand firmly till date, I believe only admin knows why that negative karma option remains there.

[Jokers]

As every other time I see this proposal I can only say that I'm against it. As a moderator I have much more powerful tools starting with registered warnings and up to banning the account of the intruder from posting.

Karma is a tool not for moderators, but for our community. You decide who posts too bad, who behaves too annoying, who is not enough courteous with others. They can probably not break the rules but answer the same 10 times one post under another not reading the topic. They can answer the opening post on the 3d page not reading the thread of the topic. They can insult someone. They can give incorrect answers not following the topic. All this can be worth -karma from several annoyed users, but are you sure that moderation is needed? I think that better community will punish for such things with -karma than we as moderators will take stricter actions.

As for karma abuse, there can be hard enough punishment to motivate not to try doing so. Some already lost all their karma and ability of giving karma to others. And this is far not the strictest penalties the abuser can get. Better not trying.

[Mate2237]

The negative karma is good for the moderation of the forum. Op I understand you very well because when I came to this forum, I was very active and growing well with positive karmas and suddenly all my karmas disappeared and I created thread, and it became worst so I was discouraged and my participation is not like before again. Though I am still active but it is not like before. Op your suggestion is not bad but the negative karma button is very much needed in the forum. It is also moderate the behavior of users because nobody like to get negative karma so everyone behavior well.

If negative karma is removed from the public use then positive karma abuse will be very high that admin might not even know how to handle it again. Therefore I like the two buttons for the public use.

[Ambatman]

As for karma abuse, there can be hard enough punishment to motivate not to try doing so. Some already lost all their karma and ability of giving karma to others. And this is far not the strictest penalties the abuser can get. Better not trying.

I knew there was a reason this has not been enforced.  About the punishment,  I knew they were penalties but this is the first time I'm hearing about the penalties specifically. The penalties are well thought out but not really well known. I believe it would play a role in reducing abuse if individuals are aware of the consequences. I thought an abuse would be like a hit in the wrist and nothing more. Not a senior member so know nothing about how it works, is there a limit to the number of negative karma that can be sent to a person by another? 
 

It is also moderate the behavior of users because nobody like to get negative karma so everyone behavior well.

This help reduce how offensive people get with their words, but It can still exist if past aggression is transferred here from another forum.

[Zed0X]

The karma system has existed long enough and we've had lengthy discussions about this long time ago. The admin has already set some new restrictions to address concerns and limit its distribution over the years. There are also other policies in place in case of abuse. Giving out +/- karma has also become a feature that differentiate this forum from the rest. There is no need to scrap anything.

[DabsPoorVersion]

~

How about this one,

Once the Karma point of a certain user drops to 0, any other users will no longer be able to send more negative karma. Only the admin, president and moderators are allowed. Since we all know if you reach a certain number of negative karma you will face a penalty, meaning it won't easily come to that point unless you, who have the powers to do that, will drop it immediately to the level when you need to face the penalty. The only capability we have is to report the post, add the reason, and leave the final decision to you.

I mean, it is to avoid the same scenario as the last time, a newly teleported user immediately receives a negative karma. Though we all know the whole story, since the forum gives a chance for him to correct his mistake, then maybe we can change it to avoid the same thing happening in the future.

[examplens]

I used to think like this, but I found many more reasons that negative Karma exists than not.
for example
- Karma is not a condition for a rank upgrade on the forum.
- Negative karma makes it easier to see the user's status without having to go through his post history.
- In the case of abuse or retaliatory giving -Karma, an analysis by the administration can always be requested.
- Some posts are not for the report but are for -Karma.
- The possibility of receiving negative karma influences certain members to speak in a moderate language.

[KingsDen]

I used to think like this, but I found many more reasons that negative Karma exists than not.
for example
- Karma is not a condition for a rank upgrade on the forum.
- Negative karma makes it easier to see the user's status without having to go through his post history.
- In the case of abuse or retaliatory giving -Karma, an analysis by the administration can always be requested.
- Some posts are not for the report but are for -Karma.
- The possibility of receiving negative karma influences certain members to speak in a moderate language.

I sure know that in the future the way karma works will be refined. In BTT merit is for rank up while trust score is for reputation. But here in this forum, karma can be used to measure quality post just like merits and yet karma can also represent reputation. Leaving it all in the hands of the mod will cause slow moderation.

[examplens]

I sure know that in the future the way karma works will be refined. In BTT merit is for rank up while trust score is for reputation. But here in this forum, karma can be used to measure quality post just like merits and yet karma can also represent reputation. Leaving it all in the hands of the mod will cause slow moderation.

As far as I know, I read somewhere that the admin is working on improving the karma system, I think that basically, the idea is to see karma points for each post. That would be very useful.
Who knows how many times I wished I had a demerit option on Btt... And there are a lot of trolls who spam, sometimes they do it in a very offensive way.

I agree that the moderation of the forum is too centralized and that there are desirable changes, if nothing at least that the admin and moderators are freed from unnecessary duties.

[Jokers]

is there a limit to the number of negative karma that can be sent to a person by another?

The same as for +karma, just once per some period of time (around 10 hours at the moment).

Once the Karma point of a certain user drops to 0, any other users will no longer be able to send more negative karma. Only the admin, president and moderators are allowed. Since we all know if you reach a certain number of negative karma you will face a penalty, meaning it won't easily come to that point unless you, who have the powers to do that, will drop it immediately to the level when you need to face the penalty. The only capability we have is to report the post, add the reason, and leave the final decision to you.

No need. If someone misbehaves, the community has an option of showing this. Mostly everyone who gets many -karma is not a good and positive forum user. If some good forum user occasionally gets -karma it can be solved even without admin's attention. I gave +karma as a compensation several times if I saw that a user is not so bad. So everyone can help to solve someone's problem with negative karma if it is obviously not deserved. AltcoinsTalks is a friendly forum, our users tend to give +karma much more often then -karma, so to get many -karma the one should misbehave a lot.

And for those who try to abuse karma system, there are strict penalties. Some users tried to abuse karma system, some did it rather recently, they are punished.

No need in changing anything. Just use karma system honestly and wisely!

[Stompix]

Karma is a tool not for moderators, but for our community. You decide who posts too bad, who behaves too annoying, who is not enough courteous with others. They can probably not break the rules but answer the same 10 times one post under another not reading the topic. They can answer the opening post on the 3d page not reading the thread of the topic. They can insult someone. They can give incorrect answers not following the topic. All this can be worth -karma from several annoyed users, but are you sure that moderation is needed? I think that better community will punish for such things with -karma than we as moderators will take stricter actions.

Exactly!!!

There are posts that will not get deleted as they don't break the rules but still be shitposts!

Everyone saying abuse this abuse that, what about the abuse on positive karma? Oh, but yeah, that should not be a concern because it's beneficial!
I am willing to bet that there is even now on this forum, even without looking at numbers, without even bothering how much karma one has more positive abuse of karma with user giving each other + just because they want to see numbers up than actual negative abuse!

Seriously don't turn this forum into Bitcointalk!
The ability to tell a shitposter that he needs to stop printing 3 lines of text that is not breaking the rules but is useless in a discussion just to get paid is one of the things that this forum does better than BTT. Don't ruin it!

[Lucius]

~snip~
And for those who try to abuse karma system, there are strict penalties. Some users tried to abuse karma system, some did it rather recently, they are punished.
No need in changing anything. Just use karma system honestly and wisely!

Just like that, instead of using what is offered to us in the best possible way, it is easiest to suggest that something be removed because some might abuse it. Of course, some members will try it, but they will most likely be discovered and severely punished.

I'm personally against the proposal, not because I enjoy giving someone "bad karma", but because I think it's a good way to warn some members that they're doing something bad - although as I've already written before, we shouldn't be "easy on the trigger", but think carefully whether a post deserves bad karma in accordance with the rules of the forum.

[Thyplaymaker]

Well this not actually bad , because there are some users who may choose to use the -karma button for their own selfish reasons. Ever since have been in this forum I haven't given any one negative karma , I prefer to give some warning first and shows the users his mistakes and what he or she may be doing wrong, and most time if I see that the individual ain't learning from his mistakes I would be forced to ignore or report that users than given them negative karma, because given them negative karma may not change some certain things because most time  they don't even know what they did wrong before receiving that -karma. Though negative karma has been helpful in reducing shit posters and spammers, but before thinking of given anyone negative karma always try and correct that users of his wrong, and if encounter such users repeating same thing you can choose to Give -karma to the user. But I will say this not actually a bad proposal