Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Crypto Discussion Forum => Forum related => Topic started by: MVT$ on April 15, 2019, 10:01:56 AM
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It looks like a project called Veil is running a bounty campaign and one of which is to promote in different forums. I just noticed these two newbie accounts and looking at their post history, it appears they're only here to post about Veil.
Account: Lektai (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=53067)
- The Emergence of Privacy Coins, Challenges & Solution Offered by Veil Technology (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109229.msg659914#msg659914)
- Veil - offering privacy and anonymity (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109212.msg659583#msg659583)
- Ever seen a cryptocurrency use Proof of work and proof of stake together?? (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=107506.msg659032#msg659032)
Account: Giletto (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=53065)
- The Emergence of Privacy Coins, Challenges & Solution Offered by Veil Technology (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109229.msg659690#msg659690)
- Veil seems similar to Monero but quite unique in serving the privacy sphere (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109059.msg658803#msg658803)
Can this be considered as spamming?
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I just checked their bounty thread. They do have forum advertising and Altcoinstalks was one of the recommended forums. Somehow it's a good thing that they recognize this forum and they also help advertise this. But if they only came here and repeatedly post about that project with no plan to discuss other things, then it can be called spamming.
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Another post by Lektai about Veil https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109409.msg660368#msg660368
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Yes these two accounts are spammers in my opinion, and should be labeled as such. Lektai has posted a new topic every day regarding Veil (that I have merged together & moved), even after I warned users (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=107506.msg659959#msg659959) in that thread about repeatedly spamming the project. I think this is likely a case of multi-accounts under the same IP.
It's good they are considering this forum for their bounty, but their actions aren't helping the project. I'll try reach out to the bounty manager regarding these accounts.
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Probably worth mentioning that Veil project's bounty includes altcoinstalks posts, but is reported on bitcointalk (not here). Not sure how I feel about this but I don't think it should be allowed it. If this project wants to do a sig bounty on altcoinstalks, then can run one on this bounty forum, not "forum adveritsing" managed elsewhere. Note some are high ranking members, but many have -K due to how spammy this campaign is.
List of bct bounty posts using altcoinstalks posts:
ZloiRediska: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50644770#msg50644770
shinratensei: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50630954#msg50630954
Psynthax: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50631849#msg50631849
Lektai: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50635244#msg50635244
Giletto: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50625468#msg50625468
dentolas: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50620324#msg50620324
tbossmitche: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50625309#msg50625309
LogiC: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50610626#msg50610626
Collinberg: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50611424#msg50611424
Alive: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50599983#msg50599983
olamidey: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50576224#msg50576224
Nuxxorcoin: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50576263#msg50576263
ZloiRediska: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50558112#msg50558112
anu1980: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50511130#msg50511130
Bare in mind this isn't a signature campaign, it's part of their "Forum Advertising":
Posts must be made on any large cryptocurrency forum. A brief list is available below, but any large cryptocurrency forum is fine:
https://bitcoingarden.org/forum/index.php?board=3.0
https://no linkss to other crypto forums /
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/
https://no links to other forums/
Posts must be related to Veil.
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Logic has been spamming about Veil also.
See topics
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109918.msg662880#msg662880
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109148.msg662113#msg662113
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109698.msg661728#msg661728
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109663.msg661499#msg661499
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=107506.msg659951#msg659951
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109147.msg659241#msg659241
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109145.msg659214#msg659214
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=5331.msg658444#msg658444
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=106293.msg658452#msg658452
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=108998.msg658436#msg658436
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They're all still at it, and I'm still deleting these new topics. If they want a thread they can have one, but they can't have dozens of threads every week.
I've contacted the bounty manager about not accepting members with -K, which is at least most of these participants now.
Please keep reporting any blatantly spamming posts that you see from this bunch, thanks.
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Update: Have spoken to Parodium (bounty manager) and they will be implementing stricter rules within the second month of the Veil bounty, which starts tomorrow. They have agreed to remove members with negative karma from their campaign and actively discourage users posting new threads as part of the forum avertising bounty. This is a good start!
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Another account who woke up from months of sleep just to post about Veil
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=110414.msg665755#msg665755
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Now I understand why there are so many references to this project.
I answered a man in one of these topics, but it seemed to be useless.
I think, we can make "-" to spammers and complain about those topics.
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Another one who came here only to promote veil
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=53165
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Another one who came here only to promote veil
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=53165
Thanks Zed, though no worries about reporting users anymore, the bitcointalk bounty thread reports all the relevant shill posts made here to review and trash as necessary.
(Sunday = spam trashing day)
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And more Veil's spamers:
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=24133
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=53210
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=16657
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=30233
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https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0
here's a section to send all those that create many posts due to bounty etc,
mods please send spamy posts to there, this way we can give them more negative karma
PS:
Spamy: crypto related - but repetitive posting > move to new section
Spam: not crypto related - possibly automated > report
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https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0
here's a section to send all those that create many posts due to bounty etc,
mods please send spamy posts to there, this way we can give them more negative karma
PS:
Spamy: crypto related - but repetitive posting > move to new section
Spam: not crypto related - possibly automated > report
Nice work, I've moved the rest of M2 Week 1's bct reported posts to there, as the week ended yesterday (for veil bounty). Hopefully the bounty manager will decide to give up rewarding participants to spam on this forum if the bounty hunters posts aren't available in the relevant threads.
PS have stickied a notice for now, though posts have already started to spread out to other forum sections (probably since I trash so many in alts discussions).
Forum Advertising Bounties are disruptive to the forum by indiscriminately promoting projects for bounty rewards.
Your topics/comments will be moved to the Incentivised Posting (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0) forum section and you will receive negative karma if you do either of the following:
- Sign up here solely to promote a project for a forum advertising bounty.
- Report posts for promoting a project to a "posts-related-to-project" style forum advertising bounty.
To report Incentivised Posting, click here (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=112178.0), please do not use (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=112180.0) the "Report to moderator" button.
What is Forum Advertising?
- Posting specifically to promote a particular project whereby participants are rewarded for their "posts related to project", either by quality or quantity.
- This advertising attempts to make projects appear more popular than they actually are (which often disadvantages newbies unaware).
- Just like other forms of explicit advertising that is posted in this section, it will therefore be moved.
- Signature bounties are not considered as Forum Advertising. This is about post content.
- Example: https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109299.0
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Update: Have spoken to Parodium (bounty manager) and they will be implementing stricter rules within the second month of the Veil bounty, which starts tomorrow. They have agreed to remove members with negative karma from their campaign and actively discourage users posting new threads as part of the forum avertising bounty. This is a good start!
They can just run a limited signature campaign here instead of incentivised posts. It's a more professional way in my opinion. A good example is selecting at least 10 higher rank and active forum members to wear their signature.
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0
Thank you admin for the swift action.
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Well, I am one of those who have joined the forum advertisement campaign on btt (Veil), and I do agree that there has been a flood of spammers that do not contribute to the discussions and make very low quality posts / create threads indiscriminately... and also agree that this has to be contained and censured as people do not seem to care and just abuse...
but, I do like Veil, and it is really one of my favourites, and I can explain why! I was among the first and I've created only 1 thread about the subject, discussing other things like privacy and not only the Veil project. I have replied to several users and explained my reasons/points of view. I've made several posts that were not related to veil and also others that were, but always contributing to the discussion and not spamming...
the problem with this is the same as post farming with signatures... signatures can also turn into spammy campaigns if users are not serious
so, why where my posts deleted?
probably karma was also gone because of this, wish I would know where I was not contributing to the discussion and improvement of the forum... not guilty that they choose not to run a bounty on this forum, I wish they did.
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Well, I am one of those who have joined the forum advertisement campaign on btt (Veil)
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why where my posts deleted?
Because such bounty inspires spammers to make useless posts, and that makes a bad reputation to the projest itself, because it started such a bounty. And to prevent spamming, it is the right decision to delete all the posts concerning the project from everywhere except the ANN topic of this project. It is a correct reaction to protect our forum and it's community. I think, if the imformation about cancelling of the spamming bounty is correct, the situation will normalize in some time. ;)
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Well, I am one of those who have joined the forum advertisement campaign on btt (Veil)
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why where my posts deleted?
Because such bounty inspires spammers to make useless posts, and that makes a bad reputation to the projest itself, because it started such a bounty. And to prevent spamming, it is the right decision to delete all the posts concerning the project from everywhere except the ANN topic of this project. It is a correct reaction to protect our forum and it's community. I think, if the imformation about cancelling of the spamming bounty is correct, the situation will normalize in some time. ;)
So, aren't signature campaigns also inspiring spammers to make useless posts in order to meet the weekly quota? (there are countless posts that state almost nothing and are made of one sentence and these are made with sole the purpose of signature bounty )
Also, the way things are being done, it becomes forbidden to discuss Veil on this forum?
Sorry, but although I agree that the spamming was too much and spammy users should be punished, I see no reason to react with such fundamentalism and in such unfair way... I didn't spam! and if my posts were available, it would be possible to prove this.
Spammer should be punished, but this is not it...
Let's be honnest, this is just another type of bounty... it hurts that the project decided to make it only on BTT forum, but it is no reason for this hunt.
You are actively limiting the freedom of speech on the forum as you are cutting blindly ... I confess that I am dissapointed, I had this forum in very high regard and for me it has been a place of discussion away from the chaos of BTT...
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Besides, in my case, I am sure that my posts were only deleted because of my report on BTT... I can't believe that anyone considered my posts spammy because I was giving my oppinion and helping the discussion... in fact I like Veil .... so this works like being forbidden to use my posts for a bounty on another forum... especially when your SPARTANS encourage the fake posts on BTT threads related with projects supported on ALTS
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I am the bounty manager from Bitcointalk.
The intention of the Veil bounty is to produce quality advertising, and we have clearly stated in the bounty rules that any advertising must be subtle, since we do not promote spam.
Unfortunately, due to time limitations, we are unable to check the exact context of every post made on this forum, so some spammers inevitably end up being rewarded.
If you would like to send me a list of the worst offenders, I will remove them from the bounty and retract their rewards. We do not condone spam.
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Well, I am one of those who have joined the forum advertisement campaign on btt (Veil), and I do agree that there has been a flood of spammers that do not contribute to the discussions and make very low quality posts / create threads indiscriminately... and also agree that this has to be contained and censured as people do not seem to care and just abuse...
but, I do like Veil, and it is really one of my favourites, and I can explain why! I was among the first and I've created only 1 thread about the subject, discussing other things like privacy and not only the Veil project. I have replied to several users and explained my reasons/points of view. I've made several posts that were not related to veil and also others that were, but always contributing to the discussion and not spamming...
the problem with this is the same as post farming with signatures... signatures can also turn into spammy campaigns if users are not serious
so, why where my posts deleted?
probably karma was also gone because of this, wish I would know where I was not contributing to the discussion and improvement of the forum... not guilty that they choose not to run a bounty on this forum, I wish they did.
Your post was moved to Incentivsed Posting for being an incentivised post to promote Veil. If you want to talk about Veil because it's your favorite crypto etc etc that's fine, just don't claim stakes for "posts promoting veil" while doing so, otherwise it's advertising. It becomes spam when it's not a genuine reply to a discussion, but rather a paid response to the discussion in order to directly promote a project. In my opinion it's not fair to punish newbies for advertising this project but allow higher ranking members to get away with it, just because they can do it slightly better. As I said feel free to discuss Veil as much as you like, when it's not for paid advertising purposes.
I am the bounty manager from Bitcointalk.
The intention of the Veil bounty is to produce quality advertising, and we have clearly stated in the bounty rules that any advertising must be subtle, since we do not promote spam.
Unfortunately, due to time limitations, we are unable to check the exact context of every post made on this forum, so some spammers inevitably end up being rewarded.
If you would like to send me a list of the worst offenders, I will remove them from the bounty and retract their rewards. We do not condone spam.
Here's a list, it's basically most of them: https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=112178.0
... in fact I like Veil ....
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Sorry man, you can ban me all you like or delete this post, but you are being unfair and hipocrite
you own Jr. Spartans have a task that is "bitcointalk posts bump"
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=7848.0
this forum pays people to make fake posts and is condemning someone because makes genuine contributions and is paid for it...
check out those threads on btt and see if they are not spammy
Besides, on this forum you award points for posts that can later be converted into coins
so... please be honnest with this...
I insist that this bounty is not much different from sig bounties
And concerning the "not fair to punish newbies for advertising this project but allow higher ranking members to get away with it", no one mentioned ranking... just should punish the ones spamming... because spamming is not the same as being paid for speaking about something... (otherwise I bet that a lot of articles wouldn't exist)
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besides, I'm on this forum for some time and I've always contributed without any spamming, trying to help and enrich the forum... I've even posted news on the portuguese section for a while... and as you can see I am also a translator...
If you don't like a campaign and choose to alienate people that contribute for the forum just because they are participating on the campaign... without even caring if these were spamming or not (so without caring if you are being fair or not), this forum will end up on an oligarchy... maybe that's why the royalty status and such...
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Aren't people wearing signatures also under the "incentivised posting"?
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this is not about bounties or stakes, this is about posts being deleted and accusation of spamming without any possibility of discussion... you are deleting everything in spite of being spam or not, just because it belongs to a campaign outside this forum... it became forbidden to speak about Veil as it doesn't have a bounty here...
sorry, but you are being unfair and hipocrite
you own Jr. Spartans have a task that is "bitcointalk posts bump"
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=7848.0
this forum pays people to make fake posts and is condemning someone because makes genuine contributions and is paid for it...
check out those threads on btt and see if they are not spammy
Besides, on this forum you award points for posts that can later be converted into coins
so... please be honnest with this...
I'm on this forum for some time and I've always contributed without any spamming, trying to help and enrich the forum... I've even posted news on the portuguese section for a while... and as you can see I am also a translator...
If you don't like a campaign and choose to alienate people that contribute for the forum just because they are participating on the campaign... without even caring if these were spamming or not (so without caring if you are being fair or not), this forum will end up on an oligarchy... maybe that's why the royalty status and such...
not defending spam at all, it is the same with signature campaigns... some people are abusers and spam in order to get the post count, other do not... and if this forum aims to be different and grow, the first thing will be fairness
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this is not about bounties or stakes, this is about posts being deleted and accusation of spamming without any possibility of discussion... you are deleting everything in spite of being spam or not, just because it belongs to a campaign outside this forum... it became forbidden to speak about Veil as it doesn't have a bounty here...
I don't remember but I think I first found out about Veil thru one of your posts. I did not see it as a spam post but educational. I also don't like what others have done especially the numerous new accounts who only came here to post about the project. However, this is no longer an issue about spamming I think. I don't think we are forbidden, as @dragon said in another thread, everyone is free to talk about it as long as it's not incentivised. Admin already made a stand about this matter. The decision might be tough but it is how it is.
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@admin, can we get more clarity on this?
I'm not sure mods have the same interpretation on this.
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0
here's a section to send all those that create many posts due to bounty etc,
Is one post/comment per week due to bounty still accepted?
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Sorry man, you can ban me all you like or delete this post, but you are being unfair and hipocrite
you own Jr. Spartans have a task that is "bitcointalk posts bump"
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=7848.0
this forum pays people to make fake posts and is condemning someone because makes genuine contributions and is paid for it...
check out those threads on btt and see if they are not spammy
Besides, on this forum you award points for posts that can later be converted into coins
so... please be honnest with this...
I insist that this bounty is not much different from sig bounties
And concerning the "not fair to punish newbies for advertising this project but allow higher ranking members to get away with it", no one mentioned ranking... just should punish the ones spamming... because spamming is not the same as being paid for speaking about something... (otherwise I bet that a lot of articles wouldn't exist)
Look I'm sorry if I've pissed you off, this was never my intention. Believe it or not, I do value you and others contributions to the forum, I wouldn't be doing this for nothing if it weren't for the community that exists here.
No one is banning you or deleting your posts, please don't exaggerate. Your post was simply move to Incentivised Posting (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0) (where it belongs in my opinion). Yes Jr Spartans had a task a long time ago bumping ANN threads, but no it didn't involve "posts related to altcoinstalks", simply because it's an awful marketing strategy. You're more than welcome to bump the Veil ANN (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=108140.0) (even for stakes), which isn't even on the first page anymore(??), continue discussing Veil in multiple threads in Cryptocurrency Mining (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=151.0) section, local boards, everywhere else etc. Unfortunately altcoins discussion board is a magnet for Veil spam in all and any threads it seems, so I move it.
Please don't try and compare this to signature campaigns, or the forum model as a whole, it's unrelated. Yes there is LOTS of spam from participants, but there is also lots of participants who are able to not spam. Bounties that requires "posts related to X" will always be spammy because "X" is is always advertised. It wasn't so long ago I was promoting DeepOnion and getting negative karma myself, for the same reason. This is why I recognize the damage it does in the long-term.
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this is not about bounties or stakes, this is about posts being deleted and accusation of spamming without any possibility of discussion... you are deleting everything in spite of being spam or not, just because it belongs to a campaign outside this forum... it became forbidden to speak about Veil as it doesn't have a bounty here...
I already made this clear, it is about getting stakes for explicit advertising. I'll say it again: you are free to talk about Veil as much as you like, as long as it's not an incentivised post to advertise the project. If you really care about the project, this wouldn't be a problem for you.
sorry, but you are being unfair and hipocrite
you own Jr. Spartans have a task that is "bitcointalk posts bump"
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=7848.0
this forum pays people to make fake posts and is condemning someone because makes genuine contributions and is paid for it...
check out those threads on btt and see if they are not spammy
Besides, on this forum you award points for posts that can later be converted into coins
so... please be honnest with this...
I already answered this, you're starting to spam your same point in other threads, which is ironic to say the least:
Yes Jr Spartans had a task a long time ago bumping ANN threads, but no it didn't involve "posts related to altcoinstalks", simply because it's an awful marketing strategy.
[...] However, this is no longer an issue about spamming I think. I don't think we are forbidden, as @dragon said in another thread, everyone is free to talk about it as long as it's not incentivised. [...]
It's true, this isn't just about spamming, it's about incentivised posts and what it incentivises. Nobody cares about the odd posts, but when dozens of users are posting everyday about the same project in every topic they can, it becomes extremely disruptive to the forum, like nothing I have ever seen here before. This is also about Veil bounty treating this forum like trash to advertise in.
It's not just here it's been a problem, I know bitcointalk have their issues with this bounty spam and I imagine other forums are struggling to cope with the spam also. It's literally exhausting moving all of it to IP forum at the moment. I already contacted the bounty manager about the worst spammers and was told they would be removed, instead they were given stakes and told to improve, and are still gaining stakes to this day.
If Veil cared about this forum, and were engaged with the community here, they would have a respectful signature campaign for our members to benefit from (like they do for bct members). All they need to do is allow act sigs as part of their bounty, or act sigs as part of forum advertising (without the spam). Instead they don't offer our members a bounty campaign, they instead subject us to their forum advertising. Yes, I mean subject.
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Unfortunately, due to time limitations, we are unable to check the exact context of every post made on this forum, so some spammers inevitably end up being rewarded.
To debunk this myth, this is an example of what happens when participants get banned from bitcointalk for spamming:
(https://i.imgur.com/KCBT8JS.png)
Not to mention you agreed to remove participants with negative karma, which hasn't happened, they are still spamming for stakes.
(https://i.imgur.com/tle3IEn.png)
Assuming this is responding to Supremacy126 (-7K): https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=29617
As well as these original spammers...
Lektai (-7K): https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=53067
Giletto (-2K): https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=53065
(https://i.imgur.com/4543jwT.png)
If you simply had a signature campaign here to reward members of this forum as well then this wouldn't be an issue, but instead the newbies have made your project into a spam wagon. You are still more than welcome to run a signature campaign, the bounty section is here: https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=22.0
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Hallo Patrons, Moderator and Global Moderator .
Indeed, there are many new and old accounts that promote VEIL by SPAM and it is strictly forbidden at the altcoinstlaks forum.
But I also promote VEIL because I think with various considerations in the bounty group that I have that Veil is good to do, because it can compete with Monero and Zcash.
Then I also didn't make SPAM posts to promote VEIL and I also always made constructive posts with VEIL.
If I am wrong, please check my post and admonish me if I have an error with this problem.
Salaam Youtuber Indonesia (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL2r4_BtmIYTn6DjTZsQjRA/videos)
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Then I also didn't make SPAM posts to promote VEIL and I also always made constructive posts with VEIL.
If I am wrong, please check my post and admonish me if I have an error with this problem.
For example here, titled Re: This is how bitcoin halving affects me. Note, this is about bitcoin halving. Your reply:
Ahha i like that!
Bitcoin does have a time to party and mourn.
If you party then you can eat with Pizza and if you grieve then you can eat with rice only. #efecthalving
But unlike the Veil project that continues to be developed from now on, maybe now Veil will be an enemy to Zcash and Monero.
https://veil-project.com/
If this isn't blatant off-topic advertising then I don't know what is. I'm now wondering if you're going to claim this post for the forum advertising bounty lol.
Edit: Wow, you just claimed it today as forum advertising. Thanks for reporting yourself, makes my life a lot easier.
Forum Advertising
Posts :
1 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=113005.msg678579#msg678579
2 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=110067.msg678577#msg678577
3 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=112135.msg677585#msg677585
4 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=110621.msg680477#msg680477
5 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=111549.msg679513#msg679513
6 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=62101.msg671957#msg671957
7 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=110201.msg675507#msg675507
8 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=110906.msg674471#msg674471
9 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=105692.msg672675#msg672675
10 https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=105692.msg671938#msg671938
Source: https://web.archive.org/save/https://bitcointalkDOTorg/index.php?topic=5125073.msg50952214#msg50952214
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Okay Mod, I'm out of promoting Veil because this is very dangerous and violates the rules in the Altcoinstalks forum.
Thank you for the explanation and I appreciate that. Hopefully I can be accepted again in this forum and can improve myself.
Thanks Moderator. ;)
Salaam Youtuber Indonesia (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL2r4_BtmIYTn6DjTZsQjRA/videos)
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Okay Mod, I'm out of promoting Veil because this is very dangerous and violates the rules in the Altcoinstalks forum.
Thank you for the explanation and I appreciate that. Hopefully I can be accepted again in this forum and can improve myself.
Thanks Moderator. ;)
Salaam Youtuber Indonesia (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL2r4_BtmIYTn6DjTZsQjRA/videos)
Thank you for understanding, your karma has been returned.
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this is not about bounties or stakes, this is about posts being deleted and accusation of spamming without any possibility of discussion... you are deleting everything in spite of being spam or not, just because it belongs to a campaign outside this forum... it became forbidden to speak about Veil as it doesn't have a bounty here...
I don't remember but I think I first found out about Veil thru one of your posts. I did not see it as a spam post but educational. I also don't like what others have done especially the numerous new accounts who only came here to post about the project. However, this is no longer an issue about spamming I think. I don't think we are forbidden, as @dragon said in another thread, everyone is free to talk about it as long as it's not incentivised. Admin already made a stand about this matter. The decision might be tough but it is how it is.
yes you did, you asked me why Veil was interesting and I explained...
Signatures are also paid
Jr. spartans operations are also paid
nothing more to say... just dissapointment
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this is not about bounties or stakes, this is about posts being deleted and accusation of spamming without any possibility of discussion... you are deleting everything in spite of being spam or not, just because it belongs to a campaign outside this forum... it became forbidden to speak about Veil as it doesn't have a bounty here...
I already made this clear, it is about getting stakes for explicit advertising. I'll say it again: you are free to talk about Veil as much as you like, as long as it's not an incentivised post to advertise the project. If you really care about the project, this wouldn't be a problem for you.
sorry, but you are being unfair and hipocrite
you own Jr. Spartans have a task that is "bitcointalk posts bump"
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=7848.0
this forum pays people to make fake posts and is condemning someone because makes genuine contributions and is paid for it...
check out those threads on btt and see if they are not spammy
Besides, on this forum you award points for posts that can later be converted into coins
so... please be honnest with this...
I already answered this, you're starting to spam your same point in other threads, which is ironic to say the least:
Yes Jr Spartans had a task a long time ago bumping ANN threads, but no it didn't involve "posts related to altcoinstalks", simply because it's an awful marketing strategy.
[...] However, this is no longer an issue about spamming I think. I don't think we are forbidden, as @dragon said in another thread, everyone is free to talk about it as long as it's not incentivised. [...]
It's true, this isn't just about spamming, it's about incentivised posts and what it incentivises. Nobody cares about the odd posts, but when dozens of users are posting everyday about the same project in every topic they can, it becomes extremely disruptive to the forum, like nothing I have ever seen here before. This is also about Veil bounty treating this forum like trash to advertise in.
It's not just here it's been a problem, I know bitcointalk have their issues with this bounty spam and I imagine other forums are struggling to cope with the spam also. It's literally exhausting moving all of it to IP forum at the moment. I already contacted the bounty manager about the worst spammers and was told they would be removed, instead they were given stakes and told to improve, and are still gaining stakes to this day.
If Veil cared about this forum, and were engaged with the community here, they would have a respectful signature campaign for our members to benefit from (like they do for bct members). All they need to do is allow act sigs as part of their bounty, or act sigs as part of forum advertising (without the spam). Instead they don't offer our members a bounty campaign, they instead subject us to their forum advertising. Yes, I mean subject.
just saw your replies on the other thread... will answer you there to avoid more unecessary quoting.
As the reference to my posts being moved, some of them are on the trash, other have been moved...
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Sorry man, you can ban me all you like or delete this post, but you are being unfair and hipocrite
you own Jr. Spartans have a task that is "bitcointalk posts bump"
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=7848.0
this forum pays people to make fake posts and is condemning someone because makes genuine contributions and is paid for it...
check out those threads on btt and see if they are not spammy
Besides, on this forum you award points for posts that can later be converted into coins
so... please be honnest with this...
I insist that this bounty is not much different from sig bounties
And concerning the "not fair to punish newbies for advertising this project but allow higher ranking members to get away with it", no one mentioned ranking... just should punish the ones spamming... because spamming is not the same as being paid for speaking about something... (otherwise I bet that a lot of articles wouldn't exist)
Look I'm sorry if I've pissed you off, this was never my intention. Believe it or not, I do value you and others contributions to the forum, I wouldn't be doing this for nothing if it weren't for the community that exists here.
No one is banning you or deleting your posts, please don't exaggerate. Your post was simply move to Incentivised Posting (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0) (where it belongs in my opinion). Yes Jr Spartans had a task a long time ago bumping ANN threads, but no it didn't involve "posts related to altcoinstalks", simply because it's an awful marketing strategy. You're more than welcome to bump the Veil ANN (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=108140.0) (even for stakes), which isn't even on the first page anymore(??), continue discussing Veil in multiple threads in Cryptocurrency Mining (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=151.0) section, local boards, everywhere else etc. Unfortunately altcoins discussion board is a magnet for Veil spam in all and any threads it seems, so I move it.
Please don't try and compare this to signature campaigns, or the forum model as a whole, it's unrelated. Yes there is LOTS of spam from participants, but there is also lots of participants who are able to not spam. Bounties that requires "posts related to X" will always be spammy because "X" is is always advertised. It wasn't so long ago I was promoting DeepOnion and getting negative karma myself, for the same reason. This is why I recognize the damage it does in the long-term.
I know that a job like yours is not easy, and especially on a case like this... I am sorry if I was a bit rude on any occasion and if it happened it was because I deem the situation as very unfair for me
Some of my posts were moved to the correct section, but other were deleted and placed on trash... you can check ...
Personally I see no issue on promoting something you really believe in and earn stakes for it... like Zed said I helped him to get to know about Veil and explained the reasons why I think it is a great project... now he is wearing the sig... it doesn't hurt the forum at all, it even contributes for quality posting and discussion.
I understand the difference between a sig campaign and this, but spammers will always be spammers, and people doing sig campaigns also spam in order to promote the project and get reward... we elegantly call it "post farming", as you know...
The campaign that is still on-going on the Jr. Spartans is even worse, as it encourages fake discussions on btt threads in order to keep the thread on top (threads related to alts supported projects)... and it is the same, users can do intelligent comments and engage on an interesting discussion or they can just spam - this spartan op especially mentions the BTT threads to be aimed at
the problem here is not the campaign, but the abuse that a lot of users made.
If you check my posts, I would be surprised if you consider any of them as spam. The only thread I've created considering this matter (privacy, not Veil) was insightfull and had some replies and is now on trash...
Like I've said, I love this forum and want to see it grow in size and quality, and I did nothing to damage it. I got dissapointed for my posts to be considered on this, not because ranks or such, but because I was promoting Veil like many people promote their favourite coins, like monero, or eth, or btc.... I have my reasons and I am sharing a good thing with the other users...
anyway, I think this should be overcome on a discussion with the Veil campaign manager (not tsujimura, but parodium). I've had a chat with him and he seems sensitive to this matter (he asked for a list of the worst offenders so that he can ban them, did you reply? in the middle of so many posts I never saw if you did)
a campaign like this would have to be held on a tight leach... (same as the spartans op - have you ever checked one of those threads? I did - I even participated and I confess that I regret it because it was impossible to have a discussion as most users were just spamming)
I've already suggested a veil signature campaign to be held here.... I'm waiting for their reply
Concerning the awarded stakes, the misunderstandings are growing... I've checked the sheet and those two got stakes for week 1, but their report includes posts in other forums, so probably these stakes were awarded for those other posts (as the links for the posts on alts became unaccessible - like mine)
look, I am not affiliated with them in any way, just like their work so far, also think that Veil is a potencial gem, and I think that the major issue here is lack of communication...
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Just look at it this way, why did the manager created a campaign that focuses promoting Veil in forums other than Bitcointalk where they are running the bounty? That's because it is not allowed there. Their thread will be immediately deleted and participants might also get suspended.
Don't go against Altcoinstalks for taking a similar action, go against the bounty manager who thinks they can just come here and promote.
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@admin, can we get more clarity on this?
I'm not sure mods have the same interpretation on this.
Your probably right, and as such admin has since clarified to mods to move shilling posts to IP section. Click here (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=111857.0) for more clarity incase admin doesn't respond here.
anyway, I think this should be overcome on a discussion with the Veil campaign manager (not tsujimura, but parodium). I've had a chat with him and he seems sensitive to this matter (he asked for a list of the worst offenders so that he can ban them, did you reply? in the middle of so many posts I never saw if you did)
Yes I've already provided the list and previously contacted parodium, as you can see from page 1 (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109299.msg665532#msg665532) of this thread, and as you can see from my post above (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=109299.msg680983#msg680983) this didn't solve anything. Hence the worst participants are now being watched/moderated, other higher-ranking members have simply been officially warned.
I've already suggested a veil signature campaign to be held here.... I'm waiting for their reply
So have I, I have been waiting for a few weeks now but instead just get bombarded with spam in the meantime, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
Just look at it this way, why did the manager created a campaign that focuses promoting Veil in forums other than Bitcointalk where they are running the bounty? That's because it is not allowed there. Their thread will be immediately deleted and participants might also get suspended.
Don't go against Altcoinstalks for taking a similar action, go against the bounty manager who thinks they can just come here and promote.
PS - I merged the posts from the other topic (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=112178.0) to avoid spamming in decentralized team forum / report IP thread.
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I see that there is no point in continuing this discussion...
You are wrong or being an hipocrite, this forum makes similar things:
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=7848.0
"
Task 1 - bitcointalk posts bump - 2x stakes - Modified
NO need for reporting, just post your username on btt and we'll track bumps
The objective is to bump each of the below posts ,
I will modify this post title and content to reflect changes:
Posts to bump will be listed here:
.....
1- Ask smart questions, not stupid bumps like up or something like that.
2- Do not refer to Altcoins in your post
3- Post your username below and the posts you bumped - by numbers
4- This action should be done 2-3 times daily / for each post
""
And you also have operators that act as trolls on the thread.....
and you pay people PER POST
Aren't you giving out a fake impression that the project has dynamic? and interested users? can't this decieve newbies....
And if you check the supported projects, most are not going nowhere....
And here you are, condemning people for posting about a project that is huge and bumping/advertising doubtfull projects
Just today I've received a warning ... my last posts were only on these "anti-veil" threads trying to clear the issue, so don't know exactly why
People don't care about this stuff, they just keep going because they have nice ranks and want to earn some money... so on one side we have the silent ones that don't care and will keep on writing "good luck, nice devs" posts to earn the signature reward, and on the other, the people that would like to be participating on veil bounty (that is open to everyone, I think)... a really small number really cares about the forum and in the end manages it like a small kingdom...
enjoy your forum!
good luck!
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And as I'm leaving I can say it again.... VEIL is a potential gem and people should check it out
VEIL and BEAM are the top contenders for this!!!
If people are holding bags of other coins or holding grudges because they are not participating, at least present some real arguments, on why Veil is not so promising......
Did you know that your balance is auditable, same as beam?
well, keep your forum clean, let the scammy projects keep around (twice now on bitschool and all for miner), and not to speak about the supposed sparta tokens that never arrived...
Collect a few users that bow down to royalty with no question because they want to keep their earnings here... and have a happy forum
cheers
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incentivized posting is bad for a small forum
we can easily find ourselves in a situation where everywhere users are posting about same project
on bct the situation might be less severe because their forum is much more active due to bigger number of users
but we should also remember that new users are important to our forum
thus there will be a 2 step solution:
1- users posting incentivized posts are required to post in the section for that:
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0
if not mods are asked to move their posts there.
2- New users over doing it, and not in the proper section, will have their posts moderated
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.....
thus there will be a 2 step solution:
1- users posting incentivized posts are required to post in the section for that:
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0
if not mods are asked to move their posts there.
2- New users over doing it, and not in the proper section, will have their posts moderated
1. I'm assuming this solution applies to older members here. Does this mean that older forum members can freely discuss (on that section) those projects that promotes incentivized postings like Veil without the risk of getting -karma?
2. What does over doing really means? Is it all posts are related to Veil? If so, I think the same thing should be applied to older members whose posts per week consists mainly of Veil.
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Unfortunately, due to time limitations, we are unable to check the exact context of every post made on this forum, so some spammers inevitably end up being rewarded.
To debunk this myth, this is an example of what happens when participants get banned from bitcointalk for spamming:
(https://i.imgur.com/KCBT8JS.png)
Not to mention you agreed to remove participants with negative karma, which hasn't happened, they are still spamming for stakes.
(https://i.imgur.com/tle3IEn.png)
Assuming this is responding to Supremacy126 (-7K): https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=29617
As well as these original spammers...
Lektai (-7K): https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=53067
Giletto (-2K): https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=53065
(https://i.imgur.com/4543jwT.png)
If you simply had a signature campaign here to reward members of this forum as well then this wouldn't be an issue, but instead the newbies have made your project into a spam wagon. You are still more than welcome to run a signature campaign, the bounty section is here: https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=22.0
We don't control the entire activities of our participants.
Their goal as bounty hunters is to promote their project as best as they can, and we have limited time on our hands to look into the specifics of every participant. If they were banned for other reasons, it's of no concern to us, so long as they're doing their job.
Our assistant manager has been told to warn all altcointalk posters with negative karma that we will not be rewarding them for posting on this forum.
As for some of your more prestigious members, which have already taken to this thread to vent their frustrations, maybe you should consider the effects of producing a walled garden here on Altcointalks.
Over time the spam will slow down, it takes time to catch the rotten eggs.
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Nice work Parodium. Are you planning to bring some bounties to Altcoinstalks? Here we have a healthy environment for bounty.
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incentivized posting is bad for a small forum
we can easily find ourselves in a situation where everywhere users are posting about same project
on bct the situation might be less severe because their forum is much more active due to bigger number of users
but we should also remember that new users are important to our forum
Bct does not tolerate incentivized postings that is why parodium did not include bct in their forum advertising campaign.
New users are indeed important but does this forum really need new users who only post here because they are incentivized?
thus there will be a 2 step solution:
1- users posting incentivized posts are required to post in the section for that:
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0
if not mods are asked to move their posts there.
2- New users over doing it, and not in the proper section, will have their posts moderated
Now that there is a section created for incentivized postings, why not just trash those posts or comments made by old or new users in other sections? It does not look right that mods spend time to search then move them in the right section and the users still gets paid. Trash it so they they won't get paid. I think they'll learn that way.
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thus there will be a 2 step solution:
1- users posting incentivized posts are required to post in the section for that:
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=355.0
if not mods are asked to move their posts there.
2- New users over doing it, and not in the proper section, will have their posts moderated
Now that there is a section created for incentivized postings, why not just trash those posts or comments made by old or new users in other sections? It does not look right that mods spend time to search then move them in the right section and the users still gets paid. Trash it so they they won't get paid. I think they'll learn that way.
The bounty stakes are distributed weekly, so trashing anything older than a week wouldn't make any monetary difference. When the post gets moved the links don't work anyway (unless it's a topic) so it has the same effective in that sense. I did otherwise use the bounty thread to move about a months of spam to help clean up the forum. I don't spend time looking for it, it's all signposted for me don't worry, users watched and warned etc. Only two weeks left until end of bounty can't wait.
I think they are learning; their bounty spreadsheet looks like a disaster at the moment full of red. The negative karma users have (finally) been told to stop spamming by management, many missing and demonetized posts, higher ranking members here have voluntarily chosen to move on after warnings.
I like the IP section though, I think it could be useful for newbies to see which projects are being shilled and to "stay the f**k away from".