Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Cryptocurrency Ecosystem => Bitcoin Forum => Topic started by: Yamane_Keto on January 24, 2024, 05:07:21 AM
-
One of the suggestions to enhance your privacy (if you do not want to use mixers, Coinjoin Whirlpool or Jointmarket) was swapping your Bitcoin to Monero and back to bitcoin, but is your privacy definitely enhanced?
I will pose 3 main challenges:
If your Bitcoin address is blacklisted, how will BTC/XMR/BTC solve this problem, because you are simply pushing the problem to the other user.
When you exchange XMR to BTC, you may receive Bitcoin from a blacklisted address. Will you exchange it again or use a mixer?
There is a possibility that you will receive the same BTC especially in the case of P2P or if the exchange you are using to exchange XMR has a limited BTC reserve.
-
The only privacy issue I see more about this is the use of IP address to convert from bitcoin to monero and back to bitcoin. Some people may not know that they should use Tor and the site that accepts it like https://exch.cx/ or that has in-built Tor like https://bisq.network/. There are mixer that may provide the service like https://mixero.io/ advanced mixing, although which is the only one that I know of.
If your Bitcoin address is blacklisted, how will BTC/XMR/BTC solve this problem, because you are simply pushing the problem to the other user.
When you exchange XMR to BTC, you may receive Bitcoin from a blacklisted address. Will you exchange it again or use a mixer?
There is a possibility that you will receive the same BTC especially in the case of P2P or if the exchange you are using to exchange XMR has a limited BTC reserve.
Monero transactions are not traceable. If someone send you monero, it can not be known that it is from a blacklisted address. As you convert it back to bitcoin, more suspicions are also blocked.
-
When you exchange XMR to BTC, you may receive Bitcoin from a blacklisted address. Will you exchange it again or use a mixer?
This can happen to you even if you are using normal mixer that is using BTC to BTC mixing, without any use of monero or other coins.
If you dont send coins to big exchange you will never notice is your addresses are blacklisted, and if you are that concerned just use monero or swap it with other altcoins.
I dont hear much about altcoin addresses being blacklisted, except for Ethereum and Tether.
-
You'll encounter most of the challenges listed here even if you use a mixer. Swapping BTC to xmr and back to BTC provides a high level of privacy if you do everything correctly. Blacklisting addresses is one of the ways the government attacks BTC's fungibility and it is mostly people who use centralized exchanges and custodial services that are at risk of their funds being confiscated.
To enhance your privacy through BTC-xmr-BTC exchange, send BTC's to a p2p exchange, trade it for monero and withdraw monero in more than one tx, at different times into your wallet. Send monero into a different p2p exchange in a different order again, exchange for BTC and spread the withdraw in small chunks into different receiving addresses, this should greatly enhance your privacy.
-
Monero transactions are not traceable. If someone send you monero, it can not be known that it is from a blacklisted address. As you convert it back to bitcoin, more suspicions are also blocked.
I do not talk about this, but within the Bitcoin blockchain, no changes happen. If my address was on the blacklist and I used the BTC XMR exchange, what happened is that my bitcoin were transferred from my address to another address. It has not been mixed, and if the other person deposits it to CEX, it will be frozen because bitcoins are still blacklisted and can be tracked.
In the case of mixers, it is transferred through thousands of intermediary transactions, which means it is difficult to trace its blacklisted origin.
This can happen to you even if you are using normal mixer that is using BTC to BTC mixing, without any use of monero or other coins.
This is not true. When you mix your coins you will obtain them from many sources and thus you break its link with their blacklisted origin.
If we assume that what you are saying is correct, then before using the mixer your coins would have been 100% frozen, but after use there is a possibility that they will be frozen and a possibility that they will be accepted.
You'll encounter most of the challenges listed here even if you use a mixer. Swapping BTC to xmr and back to BTC provides a high level of privacy if you do everything correctly. Blacklisting addresses is one of the ways the government attacks BTC's fungibility and it is mostly people who use centralized exchanges and custodial services that are at risk of their funds being confiscated.
You did not understand what I am trying to say. It is true that you, as a user, broke the link between your old and new transactions, but the old transaction is still blacklisted and without mixing it you moved this problem from you to someone else.
-
When you exchange XMR to BTC, you may receive Bitcoin from a blacklisted address. Will you exchange it again or use a mixer?
This can happen to you even if you are using normal mixer that is using BTC to BTC mixing, without any use of monero or other coins.
If you dont send coins to big exchange you will never notice is your addresses are blacklisted, and if you are that concerned just use monero or swap it with other altcoins.
I dont hear much about altcoin addresses being blacklisted, except for Ethereum and Tether.
Is this way even cheaper compared to availing mixing services? I tried this way back 2017 with Doge, Dash and it's pretty damn cheap. Same here I personally do not hear any rumors like addresses being blocked but CEX can freeze funds from it.
-
The only privacy issue I see more about this is the use of IP address to convert from bitcoin to monero and back to bitcoin. Some people may not know that they should use Tor and the site that accepts it like https://exch.cx/ or that has in-built Tor like https://bisq.network/. There are mixer that may provide the service like https://mixero.io/ advanced mixing, although which is the only one that I know of.
The unijoin mixer can also provide its services through the Tor browser. There is even an onion link. Here you have anonymity that significantly surpasses all other mixing options. There would only be a desire to get to know this whole thing in more detail in order to have an idea of how it all functions. I started using the Tor browser quite often for such purposes and I don’t regret it. This is because I live in a country where there is a very strict dictatorship and such transfers to the opposition can lead to a long prison sentence.
-
When you exchange XMR to BTC, you may receive Bitcoin from a blacklisted address. Will you exchange it again or use a mixer?
It all depends if you are using this service and other exchanges correctly.
In case you are using centralized exchanges with kyc verification and exact same amounts of bitcoin and monero exchanges, than you could be identified much easier.
Few days ago one guys was traced and found in Finland for doing something like this:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/finnish-authorities-traced-monero-vastaamo-hack
-
This can happen to you even if you are using normal mixer that is using BTC to BTC mixing, without any use of monero or other coins.
If you dont send coins to big exchange you will never notice is your addresses are blacklisted, and if you are that concerned just use monero or swap it with other altcoins.
I dont hear much about altcoin addresses being blacklisted, except for Ethereum and Tether.
I think mixer is good choice, but TBH I didn't used it yet.
I still used BTC XMR BTC.
It's really privacy transaction.
But for the next, I will learn normal mixer.
this is interesting to try.
Because new projects are definitely good and safer, but I haven't had the chance to learn about them yet.
-
One of the suggestions to enhance your privacy (if you do not want to use mixers, Coinjoin Whirlpool or Jointmarket) was swapping your Bitcoin to Monero and back to bitcoin, but is your privacy definitely enhanced?
It depends on many things, including when you perform the exchange and whether the exchange keep logs or not.
I will pose 3 main challenges:
If your Bitcoin address is blacklisted, how will BTC/XMR/BTC solve this problem, because you are simply pushing the problem to the other user.
When you exchange XMR to BTC, you may receive Bitcoin from a blacklisted address. Will you exchange it again or use a mixer?
There is a possibility that you will receive the same BTC especially in the case of P2P or if the exchange you are using to exchange XMR has a limited BTC reserve.
Your thread asking about privacy, but those challenge is mostly about "tainted" and "clean" Bitcoin. As for receiving same BTC, it could be avoided by using different exchange and set some delay so BTC you owned in past already handed to someone else.
-
If your Bitcoin address is blacklisted, how will BTC/XMR/BTC solve this problem, because you are simply pushing the problem to the other user.
If you transfer to another address with more coins, than transfer to another address and consolidating with more inputs, and so on, that blacklist address will simple disappear.
It is still possible to do that. As the blacklist is not in the blockchain level, but in third party services. Transactions still get confirmed.
-
https://cointelegraph.com/news/finnish-authorities-traced-monero-vastaamo-hack
This is a good example. The user has done the following
- BTC to Monero (non-kyc)
- Monero to Binance
- Binance: Monero to BTC
However they managed to track him down.
The details have not been disclosed but it is a good example because BTC XMR BTC may not properly enhance your privacy even though the steps taken are correct.
If your Bitcoin address is blacklisted, how will BTC/XMR/BTC solve this problem, because you are simply pushing the problem to the other user.
If you transfer to another address with more coins, than transfer to another address and consolidating with more inputs, and so on, that blacklist address will simple disappear.
It is still possible to do that. As the blacklist is not in the blockchain level, but in third party services. Transactions still get confirmed.
It is true that you can send from a blacklist address, but if you send it to KYC service and they decide to track you in the future, then they will be able to arrest you. Altcoin or XMR exchange does not break the onchain as much as mixers or coinjoin do.
-
Altcoin or XMR exchange does not break the onchain as much as mixers or coinjoin do.
Ofc they do.
Let's suppose you have 0.5 btc in address A.
Then you send 0.5btc to address B (swap service) and then you receive some XMR.
Then you swap again XMR to btc.
You send XMR and receive 0.5Btc from address C(swap service) to your address D.
Your address D contains other coins, totally unrelated to the "blacklisted " address.
-
However they managed to track him down.
The details have not been disclosed but it is a good example because BTC XMR BTC may not properly enhance your privacy even though the steps taken are correct.
This can only be done with help of big centralized exchanges like Binance, and maybe that is the only reason why they didn't delist monero yet.
Just to make it clear, nobody hacked or busted monero transactions, they just did the math for amount of bitcoins and they guessed it was him.
It's similar thing with bad address management in Bitcoin, it's much easier to make connections if you are using one address for everything.
[/size]Your address D contains other coins, totally unrelated to the "blacklisted " address.
[/size]
Exact same amount is the problem, and he used kyc exchanges, so it's obvious :P
Maybe he used fixedfloat or something like that to exchange monero, and they also work with police, like they publicly confirmed.
Bust in his home computer and you find proof he used monero.
End of story.
-
Your address D contains other coins, totally unrelated to the "blacklisted " address.
If this swap service implements blacklisting, your coins may be frozen, or at least they will cooperate with the authorities to provide your IP address and more about you.
If you use P2P, then again someone else needs to mix these currencies, otherwise the blacklist will move between several addresses and a deep analysis of the chain will link those addresses.
-
If you transfer to another address with more coins, than transfer to another address and consolidating with more inputs, and so on, that blacklist address will simple disappear.
It is still possible to do that. As the blacklist is not in the blockchain level, but in third party services. Transactions still get confirmed.
Centralized exchanges only investigate a Bitcoin address and transaction history for some rounds. If the coin already went through so many rounds of transactions, it will not be considered as tainted coins by exchanges.
Andreas Antonopoulos explained about it.
Bitcoin Q&A: Blacklists, Taint, and Wallet Fingerprinting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BILcJ3WtdLQ).
Of course, avoid centralized KYC exchanges when you are doing this.
-
If you transfer to another address with more coins, than transfer to another address and consolidating with more inputs, and so on, that blacklist address will simple disappear.
It is still possible to do that. As the blacklist is not in the blockchain level, but in third party services. Transactions still get confirmed.
Centralized exchanges only investigate a Bitcoin address and transaction history for some rounds. If the coin already went through so many rounds of transactions, it will not be considered as tainted coins by exchanges.
Andreas Antonopoulos explained about it.
Bitcoin Q&A: Blacklists, Taint, and Wallet Fingerprinting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BILcJ3WtdLQ).
Of course, avoid centralized KYC exchanges when you are doing this.
Yeah, that is a good practice that I use to recommend a lot as well.
Just make a few hops (a few transactions) and you are probably fine. the problem is that when fees are high, like now, it may cost you a few bucks.
-
Monero is the best privacy coin.
It's usable and very secure to do private transaction.
Yeah, using BTC XMR BTC enhances our privacy.
Many people did.
But If we do Normal transaction, not privacy we should use monero.
-
Monero is the best privacy coin.
It's usable and very secure to do private transaction.
Yeah, using BTC XMR BTC enhances our privacy.
With more and more services requesting KYC it is best to be skeptical
But If we do Normal transaction, not privacy we should use monero.
I think you mean Bitcoin.
Even the transaction fees for Monero are not high, but the limited availability of daily services that accept them makes them very restrictive.
-
Getting bad bitcoins is very real especially when exchanging in p2p, but in fact such cases are very few but it is better to be concerned and buy large amounts of cryptocurrencies on centralized exchanges, this way you guarantee yourself some kind of alibi of where you got this cryptocurrency.
-
One of the suggestions to enhance your privacy (if you do not want to use mixers, Coinjoin Whirlpool or Jointmarket) was swapping your Bitcoin to Monero and back to bitcoin, but is your privacy definitely enhanced?
I will pose 3 main challenges:
If your Bitcoin address is blacklisted, how will BTC/XMR/BTC solve this problem, because you are simply pushing the problem to the other user.
When you exchange XMR to BTC, you may receive Bitcoin from a blacklisted address. Will you exchange it again or use a mixer?
There is a possibility that you will receive the same BTC especially in the case of P2P or if the exchange you are using to exchange XMR has a limited BTC reserve.
What do you mean by blacklisted address? why would someone's wallet address be blacklisted and blacklisted from where? there is no such thing as blacklisted address (Unless I am unaware of something ;D) maybe you mean a wallet address which is linked to your identity.
I don't think that is such a big issue. because people who trade manually which we call p2p know all these things. and there is nothing wrong with trading with someone with known address.
-
--snip--
What do you mean by blacklisted address? why would someone's wallet address be blacklisted and blacklisted from where? there is no such thing as blacklisted address (Unless I am unaware of something ;D) maybe you mean a wallet address which is linked to your identity.
I don't think that is such a big issue. because people who trade manually which we call p2p know all these things. and there is nothing wrong with trading with someone with known address.
I think he meant address blacklisted by certain government or organization. Here's an example where OFAC (part of U.S. government) blacklist address related with ETH Tornado Cash, https://ofac.treasury.gov/recent-actions/20220808 (https://ofac.treasury.gov/recent-actions/20220808).
-
What do you mean by blacklisted address? why would someone's wallet address be blacklisted and blacklisted from where? there is no such thing as blacklisted address (Unless I am unaware of something ;D) maybe you mean a wallet address which is linked to your identity.
It is an attempt by governments to control Bitcoin, which is to prepare banned lists so that when you deposit from those addresses to any popular cryptocurrency exchange, that account is frozen and your data is sent to the government. The government has also begun to force some mining pools to avoid confirming transfers that come from those addresses.
I don't think that is such a big issue. because people who trade manually which we call p2p know all these things. and there is nothing wrong with trading with someone with known address.
If you do not think it is serious, then the main reason for banning mixer campaigns in BTT was because sinbad signature campaign address added to OFAC list (part of the U.S. government), which means that deposits from the signature campaign to your account in platforms that support those lists, such as Binance, will be blocked, and some Binance accounts have already been banned.
-
If you do not think it is serious, then the main reason for banning mixer campaigns in BTT was because sinbad signature campaign address added to OFAC list (part of the U.S. government), which means that deposits from the signature campaign to your account in platforms that support those lists, such as Binance, will be blocked, and some Binance accounts have already been banned.
The US government didn't allow mixer projects and we know binance there.
Actually not only US government, several governments also don't agree with mixer and privacy coins.
back to OP asked does using BTC XMR BTC enhances the privacy ? I think yes. Monero is the favourite privacy coin. No worries about this coin.
-
The US government didn't allow mixer projects and we know binance there.
Actually not only US government, several governments also don't agree with mixer and privacy coins.
This is not true. Mixers are legal activities in the United States and have not been banned yet. Some mixers that are suspected of being used in money laundering are seized, but compared to the number of mixers that are operating today, 4 or 5 have been seized compared to more than 15 currently operating.
-
Yes, BTC to XMR enhances someone's privacy and that's a better option for those who want to have good privacy. I have gone through all posts of this thread and I can say that the guy was caught because he did everything in fast way.
If someone converts Bitcoin into Monero then it's not possible for chain-link agencies to find out such people but they should use tor and other measures as well. The guy was caught because he sent the XMR to Binance and I'm sure that they found him because the amount was very high and Binance or any other exchange would do their best to know that where that money came from.
The ones who got those Bitcoin weren't affected from the conversion because the only one who was affected was the one who converted those Bitcoin into XMR and sent the XMR to Binance. The chain-link companies have some experts who try their best to find out such transactions but they can't really catch anyone who gets Bitcoin from a blacklisted address. The dirty Bitcoin will get clean when they move to so many wallets.
-
If your Bitcoin address is blacklisted, how will BTC/XMR/BTC solve this problem, because you are simply pushing the problem to the other user.
We are doing all this to obfuscate our transaction, so how one would know if the funds are coming from a blacklisted address and where they are going. Well, in case if you receive funds from a blacklisted address, which we don't get to see in mixers, because they already have blocked them you can also do the same, by blocking them. In simple words you are right but to some extent only. The exchange we are using must have some security measures to stop happening this. That's why we should use good exchanges.
When you exchange XMR to BTC, you may receive Bitcoin from a blacklisted address. Will you exchange it again or use a mixer?
If I try to send them on some CEX then I will be caught and might stuck in some kind of problem so I would avoid it, and Mixer might not accept that TX if they find out the funds are coming from the illicit wallets.
-
This is not true. Mixers are legal activities in the United States and have not been banned yet. Some mixers that are suspected of being used in money laundering are seized, but compared to the number of mixers that are operating today, 4 or 5 have been seized compared to more than 15 currently operating.
The US government just against illegal activities such as money laundering, not ban mixer project.
I have learned about mixer, not much but I think it's potential project.
Talking about XMR, it's good privacy coins, as many who ever used this coin. We can use monero, if we want do private in our transaction.