Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Crypto Discussion Forum => Cryptocurrency discussions => Topic started by: MrSpasybo on February 01, 2024, 01:42:56 AM
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Bitcoin was born to become a P2P payment alternative to fiat, or at least Satoshi hoped so. Since then, many crypto projects have not forgotten to include a big goal in their WhitePaper: becoming a global means of payment in the future. And obviously, this implies that crypto will compete with traditional payment services such as Visa.
And Visa also didn't love crypto when its business was threatened. In 2018, Visa banned a series of crypto cards and caused many difficulties for those projects[1].
Things got better when in 2021, Visa confirmed it might offer crypto services[2], which was unfortunately delayed to 2023 after the collapse of FTX[3].
Now that the crypto market is recovering strongly and the BTC Spot ETF has been approved, Visa is back and allowing crypto withdrawals on debit cards in 145 countries:
"The new integration allows users to withdraw cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin directly from a wallet like MetaMask to a Visa debit card. Available immediately, the integration enables one to exchange crypto to fiat and pay at 130 million merchant locations where Visa is accepted[4]."
I think Visa's move exemplifies the changing relationship between Visa, representing the traditional financial system, and crypto from the world of decentralized finance and will benefit both sides:
- Crypto enjoys mainstream adoption, reaching Visa's billions of users worldwide.
- Visa enters the crypto world, gaining more users and more transaction fees.
In the end, competition and rivalry are unnecessary. New cooperation is what we need to build a better financial system. I believe that Visa will play an important role in the future development of the crypto market.
Do you think this event is important for the crypto market? Does Visa's participation in the crypto ecosystem represent progress or regression for the industry?
[1] Some cryptocurrency-backed debit cards dropped from Visa network, leaving users scrambling (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/some-cryptocurrency-backed-cards-dropped-from-visa-network.html)
[2] Visa Introduces Crypto Advisory Services to Help Partners Navigate a New Era of Money Movement (https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.releaseId.18636.html)
[3] Visa, Mastercard pause crypto push in wake of industry meltdown (https://www.reuters.com/technology/visa-mastercard-pause-crypto-push-wake-industry-meltdown-sources-2023-02-28/)
[4] Visa enables crypto withdrawals on debit cards in 145 countries (https://cointelegraph.com/news/visa-crypto-withdrawals-cards-145-countries)
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This is clearly a reality of life. Visa and others saw the potential threat of cryptocurrency, which resulted in them depriving a cooperation. Interestingly, things have turned the other way around, attracting everyone's interest in associating with crypto. Visa quickly embraced crypto because they clearly understand that crypto is never going to take over the means of payment.
Reasons: The majority of people in the crypto space, including myself, see crypto more as an asset worth investing in to get a profit, rather than as a medium of payment (P2P). Though this is quite the opposite of the main purpose for which Satoshi introduced it in the first place.
Does Visa's participation in the crypto ecosystem represent progress or regression for the industry?
I would say that this is a progress for the crypto community at large. Certainly, no party is feeling threatened.
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In the end, competition and rivalry are unnecessary. New cooperation is what we need to build a better financial system. I believe that Visa will play an important role in the future development of the crypto market.
Do you think this event is important for the crypto market? Does Visa's participation in the crypto ecosystem represent progress or regression for the industry?
One thing for sure. where there is money to be made, big established platforms will be there to look on how they can have a slice of the pie - and yeah eat it too. There is a big truth to the adage that with something new, many will choose to fight it but when that something is already inevitable then you can expect the opposition to be joining forces with it...aligned with their own financial interests, of course. Sharks can smell the taste of blood miles away...and that is why even big banks and well-known financial institutions are now coming in to cryptocurrency to make a feast out of it. I am not saying this is bad and this can be good for the crypto industry in the sense that this is a big recognition that indeed crypto has come a long way and is here to stay. This is the market reality now...and will continue to be so in the coming many years. However, we know that this is not the real vision of Satoshi Nakamoto for Bitcoin which pave the way for the existence of the whole cryptocurrency industry...but we have no choice but to come to terms with financial realities now emerging right before our eyes. Progress or regression...the answer may not be as easy as YES or NO.
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Visa is still all about business at the end of the day. It appears that they have wanted to integrate crypto for the longest time and be one of the pioneers to bring it to mainstream but the legality aspect is what's preventing them. They are more confident now that the level of acceptance from regulators are higher than ever before with the ETF approval.
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In the end, competition and rivalry are unnecessary.
Some people only went to school and further their education, but they failed to practically examine the benefits of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. I am referring to especially the central banks. The central banks governors in many countries also failed to understand what cryptocurrencies are and looking for way it can be banned as they saw cryptocurrencies as fiat rivals but which is not.
Do you think this event is important for the crypto market? Does Visa's participation in the crypto ecosystem represent progress or regression for the industry?
Yes, this represents adoption. But I see it more as a way people will deviate away from privacy just I saw someone talked about it recently.
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Do you think this event is important for the crypto market?/b]
Can't say it's very important when it's limited to MetaMask users.
Does Visa's participation in the crypto ecosystem represent progress or regression for the industry?
Progression in terms of cryptocurrency usage, but regression in terms of privacy. I recall time when people can use crypto debit card without giving so many private information.
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It is clear that many people are used to using Visa for every transaction they make, and it has been very helpful in all transactions, which are sometimes very important in situations where they are not ready and finally there is a magic card that can complete them.Of course, it is not easy for those who are used to not using it because it has been operating for a long time.The possibility is something of cooperation between them because they need and require each other. Indeed, the situation has changed a lot, and visas must also adapt to these updates.They will run together precisely to cover each other's shortcomings that may not be found between them. CMIIW
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It is clear that many people are used to using Visa for every transaction they make, and it has been very helpful in all transactions, which are sometimes very important in situations where they are not ready and finally there is a magic card that can complete them. Of course, it is not easy for those who are used to not using it because it has been operating for a long time.
That is right. Visa as well as Mastercard are two behemoths in the world of money, banking and finance and we have to face the reality that they put up their very reliable and proven infrastructure in the many years of doing global business. Visa is one big name that millions of people in the global market can be relying on. In 2022, close to 40% of all global card transactions were made using a Visa-branded card. (https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/credit-cards/visa-vs-mastercard/#:~:text=Market%20share,-One%20significant%20difference&text=In%202022%2C%20close%20to%2040,million%20Visa%20transactions%20per%20day.)Approximately 242 billion purchase transactions worldwide were carried out using Visa payment cards during that year, resulting in an average of around 660 million Visa transactions per day. In comparison, Mastercard's total share of all card transactions is at 24%. So with this news of cooperation or with Visa opening up itself to the business of cryptocurrency, we can see that Visa is really recognizing that cryptocurrency business is here to stay and will be into the future. Plus am sure Visa is seeing that it can be making some good money with the crypto industry so instead of fighting it why not make a good team side by side.
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That is right. Visa as well as Mastercard are two behemoths in the world of money, banking and finance and we have to face the reality that they put up their very reliable and proven infrastructure in the many years of doing global business. Visa is one big name that millions of people in the global market can be relying on. In 2022, close to 40% of all global card transactions were made using a Visa-branded card. (https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/credit-cards/visa-vs-mastercard/#:~:text=Market%20share,-One%20significant%20difference&text=In%202022%2C%20close%20to%2040,million%20Visa%20transactions%20per%20day.)Approximately 242 billion purchase transactions worldwide were carried out using Visa payment cards during that year, resulting in an average of around 660 million Visa transactions per day. In comparison, Mastercard's total share of all card transactions is at 24%. So with this news of cooperation or with Visa opening up itself to the business of cryptocurrency, we can see that Visa is really recognizing that cryptocurrency business is here to stay and will be into the future. Plus am sure Visa is seeing that it can be making some good money with the crypto industry so instead of fighting it why not make a good team side by side.
There are no permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests. Visa does not have the tools to compete with crypto in this market, they lack a story and a fan community so in the end they have to join hands to get a share of the transaction fee pie and add new users. But this part is not a good way when the holder still has to transfer money to a Visa account, this is part of the order to sell crypto for fiat to spend, not the payment in crypto that many people want. I think it will take many years for crypto to become a popular means of payment.
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This just proved the saying if you can't beat em joined them, they've tried everything to shun Cryptocurrency, but the community is growing and adoption is fast, it's to their benefit if they cooperate and adopt Cryptocurrency, an industry to survive should innovate and adapt to the growing trend, Bitcoin is going to rule the world there's no stopping it now, so they cannot do anything but go to the tide and adopt Cryptocurrency.
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Yes, this represents adoption. But I see it more as a way people will deviate away from privacy just I saw someone talked about it recently.
Exactly. But if I had to use this debit thing for transactions maybe I will only store memecoins like Doge, Shiba Inu, PEPE, Floki, Apecoin and many other on this thing and/or of course USDT and will never add my investments to it for privacy reasons.
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I see no relationship between visa and crypto.
Some people want to use Visa prepaid cards to spend their crypto, but I see no reason for that.
This is the same as just selling your crypto in an exchange and spay your credit card later on...
Visa and crypto are completely different. Visa is about convenience, while crypto is about freedom.
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I see no relationship between visa and crypto.
Some people want to use Visa prepaid cards to spend their crypto, but I see no reason for that.
This is the same as just selling your crypto in an exchange and spay your credit card later on...
Visa and crypto are completely different. Visa is about convenience, while crypto is about freedom.
I'm also going to talk about this issue: Visa is just a way for investors to sell crypto more easily, but users still don't use crypto to pay for goods. So Visa has a way to immediately liquidate users' crypto assets to get fiat. Surely the price slippage and price difference are quite large so that Visa is not at risk because of market fluctuations.
Anyway, when it is convenient to use, it will be easier for users to participate in buying, selling and storing crypto, and Visa clearly attracts users from crypto and collects additional transaction fees. In the future, Visa integrates the feature of storing crypto in the card and paying with crypto will be even better.
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It seems to me that the attitudes of large companies change periodically, considering the public's sentiment towards cryptocurrencies. Given that this and probably most of the next year will be extremely positive in terms of price growth and increased investment in cryptocurrencies, we should not be surprised in the least that Visa wants a piece of the pie.
In the last month or two, I have noticed an increase in the number of new services that offer Visa cards without KYC (albeit virtual) that can be loaded with quite solid amounts ($1000).
I can't say whether this development of events is completely positive for the crypto market, but the fact is that people want to spend their crypto profits, and if they can avoid paying taxes, even better.
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In the last month or two, I have noticed an increase in the number of new services that offer Visa cards without KYC (albeit virtual) that can be loaded with quite solid amounts ($1000).
That's surprising, I remember 7 years ago you could find visas without KYC with limits even higher than that but it seems that they have tightened up and in recent years it was impossible to find cards without ridiculous limits, like $50. Do you care to elaborate? Or tell us where you found it?
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I'm also going to talk about this issue: Visa is just a way for investors to sell crypto more easily, but users still don't use crypto to pay for goods.
I don't see this as an issue.
People are not buying goods with crypto. They are putting their life savings in it!! This is just huge.
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So far, hasn't Visa been one way to transact crypto on certain exchanges?
Well, if it's a competition, of course this might not be the case, right? It would be better if it continued like this, namely mutual support. Because sometimes in some countries, a visa is really needed for various things, including when you want to buy and sell Crypto. so just follow the flow
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In the last month or two, I have noticed an increase in the number of new services that offer Visa cards without KYC (albeit virtual) that can be loaded with quite solid amounts ($1000).
That's surprising, I remember 7 years ago you could find visas without KYC with limits even higher than that but it seems that they have tightened up and in recent years it was impossible to find cards without ridiculous limits, like $50. Do you care to elaborate? Or tell us where you found it?
Times have changed since then, and it is possible that some card issuers actually misused the Visa logo, as was the case with the scammers from the Centra project. However, as I already wrote, these are virtual cards that have one major drawback, which is that you cannot get cash with them (they do not work at ATMs), but they are mainly used for online payments or you can even add them to Google/Apple wallet and pay in physical stores.
There are several topics on BTT with such services, but I am not sure that I can post such links here. Check under Marketplace -> Service Announcements/Service Discussion.
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This is indeed a very good thing to see how the development of crypto is being accepted globally, for whatever reason, but the development is much greater every year. And many exchanges, both global and local, provide a variety of payment methods, deposits or other transactions related to Visa or other types. And many banks are linked to various exchanges so they can carry out transactions directly. Even though with this of course issues related to privacy will not be optimal, at least crypto can be connected to various things.
The benefits obtained from both parties certainly support each of them, both crypto and Visa and the like, to take part in technological advances, ease of transactions, and so on. So, not to compete or make things difficult for each other. Unless it is a certain country that strictly prohibits crypto activities in any form.
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So far, hasn't Visa been one way to transact crypto on certain exchanges?
Well, if it's a competition, of course this might not be the case, right? It would be better if it continued like this, namely mutual support. Because sometimes in some countries, a visa is really needed for various things, including when you want to buy and sell Crypto. so just follow the flow
It's more on a business as usual for Visa or any other credit card that is supposedly to accept BTC. They know that crypto is really the thing now, it's a revolution and no one can deny it and they know that there are billions to make as well so maybe in the beginning, they see it as a competition.
But now they realized that it's a mistake and now they are going to cooperate or at least change their stance.
Just like what Paypal did several years ago until recently they become so friendy to crypto.
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Do you think this event is important for the crypto market? Does Visa's participation in the crypto ecosystem represent progress or regression for the industry?
This Visa is a big player in the financial industry and of course if this Visa wants to enter the cryptocurrency space it will be very easy because it definitely has a lot of funds to create a cryptocurrency coin.
For example, Visa makes cryptocurrency coins with the symbol "VISAC" and "VISAC" is created on its own blockchain or attached to a well-known blockchain such as Ethereum.
With Visa's well-known financial system, it will be very easy to increase the price rating of "VISAC" but the problem is that perhaps this "VISAC" coin will not be stable (if it is not created using the USDT algorithm), whereas Visa is a stable and widespread financial system. the whole world will have a different view than the community.
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And a time has come where countries with prosperous economies must accept bitcoin and crypto as money, because they cannot go backwards, they have to move towards progress, they cannot be stagnant thinking that the current fiat and the current money system It is the one that always makes the difference, governments and banks know that people are increasingly leaning towards bitcoin, for the diversification of their money, then they have to accept bitcoin and put it as a means of payment with the already existing, with VISA and Master Card because it is something they must accept, whether they want it or not, that's how the world goes.
I can talk about the means of payment that are immediate through banking services that accept transfers immediately from one country to another, but I believe that they will never surpass the reality that bitcoin and the blockchain have, that is something It has no competence, and I don't think they'll invent anything better than that, so far I see it that way.
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It can be said that there are positive and negative effects of this event:
As for the positive effects, it is known that Visa is very popular and widespread around the world as one of the most important payment and money transfer companies, and accepting cryptocurrencies within the payment system will expand the spread of cryptocurrencies around the world and have a positive impact in general.
As for the negative effects, they are primarily represented by centralization and violation of privacy, because, as is known, Visa is a centralized company and is subject to strict government regulations (KYC, AML... etc.), so your crypto assets will not be safe.
In short, it can be said that Visa users will be able to transfer their crypto assets across the world easily, but at the same time they must give up their privacy and beware that their crypto assets can be frozen at any time for any reason.
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It's more on a business as usual for Visa or any other credit card that is supposedly to accept BTC. They know that crypto is really the thing now, it's a revolution and no one can deny it and they know that there are billions to make as well so maybe in the beginning, they see it as a competition.
But now they realized that it's a mistake and now they are going to cooperate or at least change their stance.
Just like what Paypal did several years ago until recently they become so friendy to crypto.
I wonder if it is now available in our country, I've been looking for such thing some years ago but I can't find one though I'm on a pause during pandemic and 2021 as supertyphoon hit us hard but I just remember this Visa or Mastercard that supports crypto. I don't know if UnionBank has this since they are more vocal about crypto compared to other local banks.
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I'm also going to talk about this issue: Visa is just a way for investors to sell crypto more easily, but users still don't use crypto to pay for goods.
I don't see this as an issue.
People are not buying goods with crypto. They are putting their life savings in it!! This is just huge.
I think visa and crypto support each other because with visa people can buy crypto and from crypto people can withdraw their assets through visa... but currently crypto cannot carry out transactions to buy goods. Maybe in the future crypto will be like visa and can be used for transactions...
but they both have their own advantages and disadvantages in their work, but I am sure that in the future crypto will be the same as visa usage.
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It can be said that there are positive and negative effects of this event:
As for the positive effects, it is known that Visa is very popular and widespread around the world as one of the most important payment and money transfer companies, and accepting cryptocurrencies within the payment system will expand the spread of cryptocurrencies around the world and have a positive impact in general.
As for the negative effects, they are primarily represented by centralization and violation of privacy, because, as is known, Visa is a centralized company and is subject to strict government regulations (KYC, AML... etc.), so your crypto assets will not be safe.
In short, it can be said that Visa users will be able to transfer their crypto assets across the world easily, but at the same time they must give up their privacy and beware that their crypto assets can be frozen at any time for any reason.
Perhaps privacy issues have not been given due attention in this cooperation. If Satoshi had used Visa to pay with BTC in the past, we might have known his identity.
Currently most CEXs require users to complete KYC so users no longer worry too much about this issue. They may find the benefits of paying through Visa outweigh the identity and crypto freeze risks. And I think Visa can only freeze the crypto sent in the payment request, not the entire crypto assets in the user's on-chain account.
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In 2021/2022, there were some projects that claimed to have designed their own debit and credit cards, which allowed their investors to easily cash out their investments from any crypto ATM. I believe that the cards they designed at that time did not work perfectly because the project owners did not have all the facilities to make them functional. With the help of visas, it can become possible for every crypto project to design a visa card that investors can directly cash out from ATMs. If Visa can partner with crypto and make it possible, it will be more successful for crypto projects and will also add more profit to Visa because for every user of their service, they will also have some charges attached.
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In 2021/2022, there were some projects that claimed to have designed their own debit and credit cards, which allowed their investors to easily cash out their investments from any crypto ATM. I believe that the cards they designed at that time did not work perfectly because the project owners did not have all the facilities to make them functional. With the help of visas, it can become possible for every crypto project to design a visa card that investors can directly cash out from ATMs. If Visa can partner with crypto and make it possible, it will be more successful for crypto projects and will also add more profit to Visa because for every user of their service, they will also have some charges attached.
Visa is the best choice for crypto currently: Visa has billions of users globally and extremely good infrastructure for the transaction process. Crypto will benefit from partnering with Visa, and Visa will be able to provide new services to collect more fees from users, while also reaching new users in the crypto market.
This Win-Win relationship should have been promoted many years ago, unfortunately Visa's caution and unclear regulations have hindered the development of the crypto market :P