Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Cryptocurrency Ecosystem => Bitcoin Forum => Topic started by: TOYMAN on February 04, 2024, 08:23:06 PM
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What impact could advances in quantum computing have on the security and integrity of the Bitcoin blockchain? Moreover, what efforts need to be made within the crypto community to address potential vulnerabilities ?
Before discussing, I think we should refer to some real data about the development of quantum computers and the safety of the Bitcoin blockchain:
"According to calculations, an honest quantum Bitcoin miner would need around 10,000 qubits quantum computer without considering quantum noise. That should be enough to fit the transaction data into a block and calculate hash values.
A fork may be needed to make Bitcoin more resistant to quantum attacks. I.e., 20 million qubits at worst would be required to break a 2048-bit RSA encryption, commonly used nowadays for protection, such as credit card data.
IBM plans to offer 433-qubit quantum systems in the near future and to unveil the world’s first universal quantum computer, with more than 1,000 qubits, this year. Also, the company expects to produce a quantum computer with more than 4,000 qubits by 2025[1]."
These figures show that for many years to come, quantum computers cannot defeat the Bitcoin blockchain, while the Bitcoin blockchain continuously becomes more secure as the Hashrate continuously increases.
A fork could make the Bitcoin blockchain thousands of times more quantum-resistant than it is now, which would be enough to protect the Bitcoin blockchain and the entire crypto market 8)
References:
[1] Bitcoin could be in danger as quantum computing advances (November 15, 2023) (https://cybernews.com/crypto/bitcoin-in-danger-quantum-computing-advances/)
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Quantum computers is not a problem to BTC right now, and we are many, many years away from it being a problem, in the context of your post you sound like quantum computers are already a problem to BTC, which is not true. Take note that the network is also an evolving one, and before quantum computers become a problem, the BTC network would have evolved and a solution would have been found.
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In the context of technological developments between quantum and Blockchain, it is constantly evolving.
Quantum itself continues to develop to create sophisticated information technology due to technological competition.
Blockchain continues to develop to create Anti-cyber even though there are still many DEX platforms that are affected, therefore platforms such as Uniswap continue to develop until now there is Uniswap V3 and we as smart users must carefully choose the DEX platform to interact in.
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If quantum computers pose a threat to Bitcoin in terms of encryption by making 2048-bit RSA encryption useless, then I think there are thousands of systems that will be damaged, unlike Bitcoin, as the same encryption algorithms are used all over the world, while in Bitcoin you can easily create a hard fork and transfer your coins to new addresses.
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Blockchain continues to develop to create Anti-cyber even though there are still many DEX platforms that are affected, therefore platforms such as Uniswap continue to develop until now there is Uniswap V3 and we as smart users must carefully choose the DEX platform to interact in.
DEX platforms have nothing to do with the topic. The topic talks about the danger of development in quantum computing, where a powerful enough quantum computer can reverse engineer a public key to discover its corresponding private key as well as be able to carry out a 51% attack, which makes it a major risk to the security of cryptocurrency and blockchain.
Fortunately, the crypto community is actively developing and researching post-quantum cryptography (PQC) algorithms that could have promising results in resisting quantum computing attacks.
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Quantum computers is not a problem to BTC right now, and we are many, many years away from it being a problem, in the context of your post you sound like quantum computers are already a problem to BTC, which is not true. Take note that the network is also an evolving one, and before quantum computers become a problem, the BTC network would have evolved and a solution would have been found.
That's the point, even though quantum computers have the opportunity to threaten Bitcoin, to reach that point it may take decades and before quantum computers achieve that there will probably be the development of new quantum-resistant cryptographic algorithms and cryptographic keys that are longer than before which is where it will be resistant to hacking carried out by quantum computers.
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Advances in quantum computing pose a potential threat to the security of the Bitcoin blockchain. Especially because of its ability to break widely used cryptographic algorithms. There is a risk of compromise in the current encryption methods we commonly use to protect Bitcoin transactions. I think one of the highest efforts in the cryptocurrency community needs to be on developing quantum resistant cryptographic algorithms. Because our private keys can be vulnerable to quantum attacks.
Now My Question
What impact could advances in quantum computing have on the security and integrity of the Bitcoin blockchain? Moreover, what efforts need to be made within the crypto community to address potential vulnerabilities ?
Copy: wtsimis (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5484001.msg63607371#msg63607371)
I wrote and read a lot about it on another forum, and now they talk about it, if (or when) they can write software to work on a quantum computer (so far they practically do not know how to work on it) it is not able to do such calculations that are needed to crack bitcoin, so for now we should not be afraid.
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DEX platforms have nothing to do with the topic. The topic talks about the danger of development in quantum computing, where a powerful enough quantum computer can reverse engineer a public key to discover its corresponding private key as well as be able to carry out a 51% attack, which makes it a major risk to the security of cryptocurrency and blockchain.
Fortunately, the crypto community is actively developing and researching post-quantum cryptography (PQC) algorithms that could have promising results in resisting quantum computing attacks.
Okay, sorry, maybe I misinterpreted or misunderstood.
If for example it is true as you say then what should we do to anticipate it, of course it is impossible if we have to change wallets every day or every time to avoid quantum attacks.
Is there already a solution from the crypto community, especially Bitcoin?
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I wrote and read a lot about it on another forum, and now they talk about it, if (or when) they can write software to work on a quantum computer (so far they practically do not know how to work on it) it is not able to do such calculations that are needed to crack bitcoin, so for now we should not be afraid.
At the past several years, we heard about this, quantum computer. But Until now I don't hear quantum computer can do this. So, I agree with you. Don't be afraid about this. It's just rumours.
I still believe private key of our wallet is safe. I don't believe quantum computer can crack bitcoin. It's not easy.
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I wrote and read a lot about it on another forum, and now they talk about it, if (or when) they can write software to work on a quantum computer (so far they practically do not know how to work on it) it is not able to do such calculations that are needed to crack bitcoin, so for now we should not be afraid.
At the past several years, we heard about this, quantum computer. But Until now I don't hear quantum computer can do this. So, I agree with you. Don't be afraid about this. It's just rumours.
I still believe private key of our wallet is safe. I don't believe quantum computer can crack bitcoin. It's not easy.
You're right mate, I think quantum computing can't hack bitcoin.
Although if we talk about private key of our wallet, No one can crack it until now..But we don't know what will happen at the coming future.
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Okay, sorry, maybe I misinterpreted or misunderstood.
If for example it is true as you say then what should we do to anticipate it, of course it is impossible if we have to change wallets every day or every time to avoid quantum attacks.
Is there already a solution from the crypto community, especially Bitcoin?
That's okay, it usually happens.
Currently, there is no danger from quantum attacks because they have not yet reached the level required to reverse engineer a public key to discover the private key or be able to carry out a 51% attack, but if development in quantum computing continues with this momentum, they may soon be able to do so.
But so far there are no real concerns and we do not have to do anything, as I mentioned in my previous post. Fortunately, the crypto community is working on developing and researching post-quantum cryptography (PQC) algorithms that will resist quantum computing attacks. So until then we don't have to do anything just monitor developments.
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But so far there are no real concerns and we do not have to do anything, as I mentioned in my previous post. Fortunately, the crypto community is working on developing and researching post-quantum cryptography (PQC) algorithms that will resist quantum computing attacks. So until then we don't have to do anything just monitor developments.
Discussions like this are what I always expect from this forum, it can add insight and knowledge about crypto in the future.
Is this quantum project only attacking Bitcoin or all crypto assets such as ETH and USDT?
If what often happens on the DEX platform is purely a mischievous person or there is a group that deliberately attacks to bring down the crypto ecosystem so that everyone hesitates to enter the crypto world. ?
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I wrote and read a lot about it on another forum, and now they talk about it, if (or when) they can write software to work on a quantum computer (so far they practically do not know how to work on it) it is not able to do such calculations that are needed to crack bitcoin, so for now we should not be afraid.
At the past several years, we heard about this, quantum computer. But Until now I don't hear quantum computer can do this. So, I agree with you. Don't be afraid about this. It's just rumours.
I still believe private key of our wallet is safe. I don't believe quantum computer can crack bitcoin. It's not easy.
If this happens and they can do it, we should not worry about cryptocurrency, but about fiat money banks which quantum computer will crack without straining, to our concern it is worth noting that quantum computers are made only to order and only to proven companies.
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But so far there are no real concerns and we do not have to do anything, as I mentioned in my previous post. Fortunately, the crypto community is working on developing and researching post-quantum cryptography (PQC) algorithms that will resist quantum computing attacks. So until then we don't have to do anything just monitor developments.
Discussions like this are what I always expect from this forum, it can add insight and knowledge about crypto in the future.
Is this quantum project only attacking Bitcoin or all crypto assets such as ETH and USDT?
If what often happens on the DEX platform is purely a mischievous person or there is a group that deliberately attacks to bring down the crypto ecosystem so that everyone hesitates to enter the crypto world. ?
Thank you, it is true that this is the goal of the forum, to exchange discussion and constructive ideas among members.
As for your question, yes, quantum computing (in the future), with its superior ability, can attack all types of cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin, ETH, USDT, and all other currencies, but Bitcoin is always talked about in the first place because it uses the SHA-256 algorithm, which is considered the strongest, most secure, and most difficult to penetrate among all algorithms. so Bitcoin is only being talked about because if quantum computing can hack it, the other won't be as difficult for it.
As for DEX, do not rely on it. A professional hacker with simple tools and high experience can hack it, as happened several times, so it is not considered safe at all.
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Now My Question
What impact could advances in quantum computing have on the security and integrity of the Bitcoin blockchain? Moreover, what efforts need to be made within the crypto community to address potential vulnerabilities ?
The answer to your question is in your topic already. With the improvement in the quantum computing ecosystem, it will be challenging to keep the existing cryptographic algorithms. Many security breaches could happen in a short moment and by the time we notice it, it will be too late. The impact is going to be mostly negative on the blockchain if it falls into the wrong hands.
The solution however is coming up with a way to prevent this from happening. You cannot come up with a solution overnight. You will have to constantly keep up to date with everything that is happening in the progress of quantum computing. Acting based on the progress and creating an anti quantum mechanism is the only way to do it.
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For now, it's a question of Qbits vs. Years, that is what allows zero worries in the short term and after that, although it may not seem like it, designing the algorithms can take a few more years...
In any case, we cannot be so presumptuous with bitcoin, and we must put ourselves in a priority queue, because when Qbits levels reach, we will all be in danger, not just those who have bitcoin.
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I won't answer you because you have copied the whole thread of someone else from Bitcointalk and now posting it from your account and sharing the link only.
I would suggest you to come up with your own ideas instead of copying someone else's threads, it's an act of plagiarism because you have copied the whole thread and sharing the link as reference.
You can basically quote some parts of his thread or give credit to him for the thread and then create your own thread with your own questions, that would be much better.
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As for DEX, do not rely on it. A professional hacker with simple tools and high experience can hack it, as happened several times, so it is not considered safe at all.
Okay thanks for the easy to understand explanation
If I may know what is the SHA-256 algorithm?
It is true that for Dex it has happened too often and it happens to the EVM network if on the IBC and ICP networks there doesn't seem to be anything maybe I don't know.
Is it really that easy for the EVM network to be hacked?
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For now, it's a question of Qbits vs. Years, that is what allows zero worries in the short term and after that, although it may not seem like it, designing the algorithms can take a few more years...
In any case, we cannot be so presumptuous with bitcoin, and we must put ourselves in a priority queue, because when Qbits levels reach, we will all be in danger, not just those who have bitcoin.
Ohh, So you mean with Qbits, evolution till the algorithm design there are some years gap. Why do people think that Quantum technology will be only used to threaten Blockchain technology?
hmm, this technology is mainly focused on getting more precise measurements that can be used in research work, medical equipment Environmental analysis and etc, etc, I'm not saying I know a lot about Quantum computing but still, I can say it was not only adopted to destroy crypto and encryption algorithm.
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I can assure you that quantum computers are not threat to bitcoin, and cryptocurrencies at large, at least, not at this very moment, it will take several years of development before quantum computers get to the stage or level where it may likely have a chance at becoming a threat to the existence of bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and before that time arrives, trust that bitcoin and cryptocurrencies have also developed stronger blockchains and wallets that are quantum resistant.
I actually have a well detailed thread on this topic on bitcointalk, I am just going to find time to move the same thread here, so that users here can read and learn as well.
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Quantum computers (the real ones) are still far from working at full capacity. Those desktop and laptop computers that some companies sell (very expensive) with a few qubits are not actually quantum computers. True quantum computers still do not have much computing capacity, to give us an idea, the Qilimanjaro Quantum right now has a computing capacity of 5 qubits and they hope to reach 30 in 2025. IBM says that "soon" they will have one available with 100,000 qubits, but that's mostly marketing, since it's crazy to achieve that capacity with current technology.
Regardless of when quantum computers become accessible to the general public, Bitcoin will be more than prepared to keep everything running as usual. You have to think that where there is quantum computing, there will also be defense at the same level, something applicable to Bitcoin when the time comes.
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If I may know what is the SHA-256 algorithm?
SHA-256 hashing is a type of secure hashing algorithm (SHA). Hash algorithms are used to convert data into a fixed set of letters and numbers called a hash. Hashes are used to verify the integrity of data and ensure that it has not been modified during transmission over the network. It is an essential part of the Bitcoin protocol. It is used for Bitcoin mining and generating Bitcoin addresses. And also to secure transactions and account proof of work (POW).
SHA-256 hash algorithm is considered robust and reliable due to its mathematical design and sophisticated security. So far no one has been able to crack the algorithm. Because of this reliability, Bitcoin relies on SHA-256 to secure its network and keep transactions safe.
Its main problem is that it consumes a large amount of energy, and this is what governments exploit to discredit Bitcoin.
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Before discussing, I think we should refer to some real data about the development of quantum computers and the safety of the Bitcoin blockchain:
"According to calculations, an honest quantum Bitcoin miner would need around 10,000 qubits quantum computer without considering quantum noise. That should be enough to fit the transaction data into a block and calculate hash values.
A fork may be needed to make Bitcoin more resistant to quantum attacks. I.e., 20 million qubits at worst would be required to break a 2048-bit RSA encryption, commonly used nowadays for protection, such as credit card data.
IBM plans to offer 433-qubit quantum systems in the near future and to unveil the world’s first universal quantum computer, with more than 1,000 qubits, this year. Also, the company expects to produce a quantum computer with more than 4,000 qubits by 2025[1]."
These figures show that for many years to come, quantum computers cannot defeat the Bitcoin blockchain, while the Bitcoin blockchain continuously becomes more secure as the Hashrate continuously increases.
A fork could make the Bitcoin blockchain thousands of times more quantum-resistant than it is now, which would be enough to protect the Bitcoin blockchain and the entire crypto market 8)
In addition to the limitations of the Quantum Computer's power, we have many other issues to consider. Assuming Quantum Computer has strong development and governments can successfully attack the Bitcoin network, Bitcoin is not the subject of their attack.
In addition to Bitcoin, SHA-256 is used to encrypt information in military communication systems and also banks[1,2]. Therefore, if possible, Quantum Computer will be used to attack military communications systems to steal confidential information, or attack to appropriate assets in large banks. At that time, we will also have more worries in life, not just worrying about Bitcoin 🤣
[1] A Definitive Guide to Learn The SHA-256 (Secure Hash Algorithms) (https://www.simplilearn.com/tutorials/cyber-security-tutorial/sha-256-algorithm)
[2] Which encryptions does bank use for securing user passwords (https://medium.com/@ProsePonderer/which-encryptions-does-bank-use-for-securing-user-passwords-7dd226d531bc)
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Its main problem is that it consumes a large amount of energy, and this is what governments exploit to discredit Bitcoin.
Maybe for this reason in the past in China it was forbidden to mine Bitcoin, I have read news about the problem of the power that is spent very large to mine Bitcoin or maybe there are other reasons I don't understand but due to the news that bitcoin has decreased by causing all coins to decline by a dozen percent but after a few days news came out that China was allowed to mine Bitcoin again.
I think this is like a whale game that wants to buy Bitcoin at a low price or is it true?
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Advances in quantum computing pose a potential threat to the security of the Bitcoin blockchain. Especially because of its ability to break widely used cryptographic algorithms. There is a risk of compromise in the current encryption methods we commonly use to protect Bitcoin transactions. I think one of the highest efforts in the cryptocurrency community needs to be on developing quantum resistant cryptographic algorithms. Because our private keys can be vulnerable to quantum attacks.
Quantum computers are not so common that every hacker has them, even the ones that exists are only used by big corporations like Google, IBM, etc. They are also using these computers under specific conditions, where the room temperature humidity etc. is maintained regularly for the proper working of Quantum computers. In simple words, the whole place is isolated to run the computer. And running such a computer under the nose of law and authority is a difficult task for a hacker.
Unless the hacker has a lot of money to manage all these things. I don't really know how much potential these Quantum computers have, because they are under experimental use and till now there are many types of quantum computers are being used like photonic, superconducting, etc. And none of these are able to cause any kind of trouble to BTC encryption. And breaking with encryption with such beta computers is still a question on there potential and I don't think they have the capability.
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Maybe for this reason in the past in China it was forbidden to mine Bitcoin, I have read news about the problem of the power that is spent very large to mine Bitcoin or maybe there are other reasons I don't understand
There is no doubt that Bitcoin mining consumes a large amount of energy. This is true, but this is not the real reason for banning Bitcoin by China or other governments. This is just an argument they use to justify their attack and ban on Bitcoin. There are hundreds of factories of worthless things that consume large amounts of energy and cause pollution work With the approval of governments without prohibiting them.
The real reason is that governments hate Bitcoin because of its decentralization and preservation of privacy. This is what governments hate because they want everything under their control and reject privacy.
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I won't answer you because you have copied the whole thread of someone else from Bitcointalk and now posting it from your account and sharing the link only.
I would suggest you to come up with your own ideas instead of copying someone else's threads, it's an act of plagiarism because you have copied the whole thread and sharing the link as reference.
You can basically quote some parts of his thread or give credit to him for the thread and then create your own thread with your own questions, that would be much better.
I am really very sorry. I was feeling very guilty after posting this, so I tried many times to delete the post. But there is no post deletion system in AltCoin Talk yet. So I am forced to give the copy link from where I copied it. I will definitely post on my own in the future. Because we need to know a lot. I am very sorry. I apologize to everyone. :'(
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I am really very sorry. I was feeling very guilty after posting this, so I tried many times to delete the post. But there is no post deletion system in AltCoin Talk yet. So I am forced to give the copy link from where I copied it. I will definitely post on my own in the future. Because we need to know a lot. I am very sorry. I apologize to everyone. :'(
Hehe... What's the matter here guys.. Seems like I've ignored the whole thread by OP and just made my post based on the fellow's opinion haha that's weird and looks like the next time it's a lesson for me to tag out the copy posters... Buddy, I'm not aware of the copy-paste rules (Palgrism) on Altcointaalk but I can assure you that your account could have been already banned ...
Anyway If you've accepted and apologized lets wait what other's say on it...
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I can assure you that quantum computers are not threat to bitcoin, and cryptocurrencies at large, at least, not at this very moment, it will take several years of development before quantum computers get to the stage or level where it may likely have a chance at becoming a threat to the existence of bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and before that time arrives, trust that bitcoin and cryptocurrencies have also developed stronger blockchains and wallets that are quantum resistant.
I actually have a well detailed thread on this topic on bitcointalk, I am just going to find time to move the same thread here, so that users here can read and learn as well.
So, like I promised in my comment quoted above, I've posted my thread on why quantum computing can never defeat bitcoin , not now, and not in the nearest future, yeah all can head over to https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=317333.0 (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=317333.0) and read it, and also post your thoughts, questions, opinion in comments.
I highly doubt if any of us currently here now would still be alive to witness when quantum computers would have been well developed enough to pose as a thread to bitcoin's existence.
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I can assure you that quantum computers are not threat to bitcoin, and cryptocurrencies at large, at least, not at this very moment, it will take several years of development before quantum computers get to the stage or level where it may likely have a chance at becoming a threat to the existence of bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and before that time arrives, trust that bitcoin and cryptocurrencies have also developed stronger blockchains and wallets that are quantum resistant.
I actually have a well detailed thread on this topic on bitcointalk, I am just going to find time to move the same thread here, so that users here can read and learn as well.
So, like I promised in my comment quoted above, I've posted my thread on why quantum computing can never defeat bitcoin , not now, and not in the nearest future, yeah all can head over to https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=317333.0 (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=317333.0) and read it, and also post your thoughts, questions, opinion in comments.
I highly doubt if any of us currently here now would still be alive to witness when quantum computers would have been well developed enough to pose as a thread to bitcoin's existence.
Yes, good and valid arguments mate. And if I may add, QC could theoretically solve certain cryptographic hash functions more efficiently than classical computers, but SHA-256? it might take years as you have said to have fully functional QC, and it could be still in research stage in the next decade or so.
And in any case we are threaten, it could be obvious that the Bitcoin devs will have to mitigate that risk before it happens.
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The real reason is that governments hate Bitcoin because of its decentralization and preservation of privacy. This is what governments hate because they want everything under their control and reject privacy.
If this makes sense, maybe they feel disadvantaged because of the privacy of decentralization, there are many BTC enthusiasts but the government cannot ask for taxes, maybe from there the government starts to dislike decentralization because there is no tax imposed on Bitcoin mining, the government automatically feels disadvantaged because there is no income for them.
What countries do you think are still mining a lot of Bitcoin for now?
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I am really very sorry. I was feeling very guilty after posting this, so I tried many times to delete the post. But there is no post deletion system in AltCoin Talk yet. So I am forced to give the copy link from where I copied it. I will definitely post on my own in the future. Because we need to know a lot. I am very sorry. I apologize to everyone. :'(
It's good to know that you're feeling guilty because you have copied someone else's content and posted it as your own but I'm happy to see that you admit that it was a mistake and I hope that you won't repeat it again.
Yes, it's true the post can't be deleted by user but you can erase the content of the thread and lock it so others may not reply to it. That's going to be much better I guess or you may rewrite the thread with your own content.
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This is a very good topic, interesting because it has a lot to do with the knowledge that one has in the thing, for me Bitcoin until now if a quantum computer comes out it can't do much, because it is a very difficult thing to get into, why? Since the first Generations of any computer in which Technology is the most important, therefore the bitcoin should not have its security compromised on the contrary, it will not do anything to it, it is a matter of years, I estimate at least 5 years until they can break The Bitcoin codes are the only thing I see that they can do to break the Sh 256 barrier, because the AI that has come out so far is not very clear what can be seen.
Advanced AI plus a quantum PC can make many advances , but it is not something that tells me who can be good and what is going to make a difference, no, it is something that is still very much missing, from here to there the insurance of bitocin It will have Increased much more, at least for the security that is available until now.
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What countries do you think are still mining a lot of Bitcoin for now?
This image gives you all the details about mining hash power by countries:
(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/02/10/vrjDb.jpeg)
Source: https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/by-country/
China was ranked first and had the largest share at about 70% or more (I do not remember the exact percentage), but as you can see, after the ban, Chinese miners migrated to many countries, especially Kazakhstan and the United States, and thus the United States now ranks first, and China moved to second place with a very low percentage than before, and Kazakhstan is third.
In my opinion, the decision to ban mining by China was a good decision in favor of increasing decentralization in Bitcoin mining.