Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Cryptocurrency Ecosystem => Bitcoin Forum => Topic started by: NotATether on May 30, 2024, 09:00:47 AM
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https://stacker.news/items/555804
Take a look at this.
While I was not able to get a hold of the exact legislation being proposed and written in Congress, there are rumors going out that there is a legislation they want to pass that would make not using an address multiple times a mixer.
I mean, what in the world are these people thinking? Clearly they don't know how a mixer works at all.
This sounds like something that was sponsored by a chain analysis company.
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This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.
(B) Using programmatic or algorithmic code to coordinate, manage, or manipulate the structure of a transaction;
(D) Creating and using single-use wallets, addresses, or accounts, and sending CVC through such wallets, addresses, or accounts through a series of independent transactions;
(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets;
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This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.
(B) Using programmatic or algorithmic code to coordinate, manage, or manipulate the structure of a transaction;
(D) Creating and using single-use wallets, addresses, or accounts, and sending CVC through such wallets, addresses, or accounts through a series of independent transactions;
(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets;
B) OOPS! Every software wallet has just been made illegal (in the USA at least).
D) OOPS! Nobody can actually prove that a chain of transactions belong to one person so this outlaws chains of transactions.
E) OOPS! This effectively outlaws exchanges.
In the process of writing this letter, they have killed the entire crypto industry in the process. Even exchanges can't survive with this sort of bill, and it wouldn't surprise me if they turn on it hard.
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This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.
(B) Using programmatic or algorithmic code to coordinate, manage, or manipulate the structure of a transaction;
(D) Creating and using single-use wallets, addresses, or accounts, and sending CVC through such wallets, addresses, or accounts through a series of independent transactions;
(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets;
This is like some kind of bad parody, shouldn't they find someone with an elementary knowledge of blockchain and not allow some plumber to write these terms for them?
When did this amateurism in the US gov begin?
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https://stacker.news/items/555804
Take a look at this.
The guy got it backwards
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2023-10-23/pdf/2023-23449.pdf
§ 1010.662 Special measures regarding CVC mixing transactions.
(a) Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following terms have the following meanings.
~
(3) CVC mixing. (i) The term ‘‘CVC mixing’’ means the facilitation of CVC transactions in a manner that obfuscates
the source, destination, or amount involved in one or more transactions,
regardless of the type of protocol or service used, such as:
(A) Pooling or aggregating CVC from multiple persons, wallets, addresses, or accounts;
(B) Using programmatic or algorithmic code to coordinate, manage, or manipulate the structure of a
transaction;
(C) Splitting CVC for transmittal and transmitting the CVC through a series of independent transactions;
(D) Creating and using single-use wallets, addresses, or accounts, and sending CVC through such wallets,
addresses, or accounts through a series of independent transactions;
(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets; or(F) Facilitating user-initiated delays in
transactional activity.
They defined mixing as using different methods in order to obfuscate the sender and the receiver one of it being single-use addresses.
It doesn't mean that using a single-use wallet or address is mixing.
Simple example: A car has 4 wheels but something with 4 wheels is not always a car!
Also, another thing, this is only for:
The parties expected to comply with the special measure one include any and all domestic covered financialinstitutions as defined in 31 CFR
1010.100(t).99 Table 1 (below)
Bank b ... c 9,850
Broker/Dealer in Securities d ... e 3,540
Money Services Business f ... g 25,710
Dealer in Foreign Exchange h ... i 190 (3,000)
Check Casherj ... k 5,960 (21,970)
Issuer/Seller of Traveler’s Checks/Money Orders l ... m 380
Provider of Prepaid Access n ... o 20 (130)
Seller of Prepaid Access p ... q 40 (2,220)
U.S. Postal Service r ... s 0
Money Transmittert ... u 450 (16,460)
Telegraph Company v ... w 0
Casino x ... y 990
Card Club z ... aa 270
Person subject to supervision by any State or Federal Bank Supervisory Authority bb ................................................................. cc N/A
Futures Commission Merchant dd ... ee 60
Introducing Broker in Commodities ff ... gg 970
Mutual Fund hh ...........
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This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.
These points are an explanation of convertible virtual currency
(CVC) mixing, so that any service that contains points from A to F is considered a mixer.
The general definition of a mixer, according to https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2023-10-23/pdf/2023-23449.pdf, is any service that leads to difficulty connecting inputs and outputs, and the conditions stated from A to F apply to it.
The problem is that the report stated that “special measures” may be taken for anyone who helps facilitate or Promoting money laundering, which gives FinCEN additional permissions.
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This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.
These points are an explanation of convertible virtual currency
(CVC) mixing, so that any service that contains points from A to F is considered a mixer.
The general definition of a mixer, according to https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2023-10-23/pdf/2023-23449.pdf, is any service that leads to difficulty connecting inputs and outputs, and the conditions stated from A to F apply to it.
I'm not familiar with legal terms, but these parts (what i bold on below quote) imply that certain service only need to meet 1 of 6 mentioned criteria. But CMIIW.
(3) CVC mixing. (i) The term ‘‘CVC mixing’’ means the facilitation of CVC transactions in a manner that obfuscates the source, destination, or amount involved in one or more transactions, regardless of the type of protocol or service used, such as:
(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets; or
(F) Facilitating user-initiated delays in transactional activity.
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https://stacker.news/items/555804
Take a look at this.
While I was not able to get a hold of the exact legislation being proposed and written in Congress, there are rumors going out that there is a legislation they want to pass that would make not using an address multiple times a mixer.
I mean, what in the world are these people thinking? Clearly they don't know how a mixer works at all.
This sounds like something that was sponsored by a chain analysis company.
I do not support the proposal to freeze user accounts involved with Mixers in the past because they cannot control the origin of every satoshi in their account. If this proposal becomes law, it could affect millions of users and have a negative impact on the crypto market. It would be terrible if someone received $100 in BTC from a banner design job but his account was frozen because a few satoshi of these BTC was once associated with Mixers 3 years ago when it was still in someone else's account.
The method of identifying and accusing an account of being involved with Mixers is also ridiculous and laughable. I think they are just trying to make some effort so they can fool the congressmen. They don't even understand how all Mixers work to be able to apply such a crude common criterion.
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This is like some kind of bad parody, shouldn't they find someone with an elementary knowledge of blockchain and not allow some plumber to write these terms for them? When did this amateurism in the US gov begin?
Many lawmakers are good at nothing and they are masking their ignorance with their supposed care of the people and to protect the investors. This is just one of the manifestations why nobody should be trusting the very government which is sworn to protect and work for people's welfare as they, in many cases, are actually working for the opposite. While not advocating anarchy, we should be careful with lawmakers who are in reality law-breakers themselves...they can say that nobody is above the law but if their family, their friends and their financial backers are into something they will be the first to defend them. I am hoping that this proposed bill will not be seeing the light of the day and should be declared as dumb as it should be. These lawmakers should be given their basic crypto orientation so they can better understand things and so they will not be labeled as just another stupid politicians.
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Without going into all the details and complications, it is certain that they are pursuing one thing, which is eliminating decentralization and privacy. It is clear from the beginning that all the regulations they have approved, whether related to money laundering, anti-terrorist financing laws, or mixers, aim for the same goal.
With this law, whether you use mixers or not, you will one day find yourself wanted for violating money laundering or anti-terrorism regulations or using mixers.
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Well this kind of stuff is not new me because here in my Country they making laws out of nowhere like you can say, "do they think it before implementing?" Maybe they did it to let the people know that they are doing something, not just by paying them from people's money. No matter what we say to them, we can't do anything against them because they are the authority. Instead, we have to follow them or else we pay for penalty or the worse, in jail.
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So if I have multiple addresses and I am using a unique one every time mean I am using a mixer? haha what are they smoking these days I wonder. Well, I know one thing these people are no joke, they always have some roadmaps, like first they will use the term mixers to pass their bill, because they know using the word mixer will make the situation easier for them but what they don't understand is, they are accusing an entity for there own self benefits.
While it's not how things work, I wonder who are the ones (idiots) who will approve this legislation. I also think of these events as to gain some popularity or attraction as the elections are ongoing. But in these times considering the situation I will say everyone is on the side of crypto (especially the Trump). BTW his chances are lesser. And I also heard Biden also going soft on crypto users and that's why ETH ETFs got approved as five members of the SEC have to make the decision of either approving it or not.
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~snip~
With this law, whether you use mixers or not, you will one day find yourself wanted for violating money laundering or anti-terrorism regulations or using mixers.
From the very beginning, all those who used BTC as a currency were treated as criminals who are hiding something and dealing with illegal things - I think that this narrative is only getting better with time, i.e. that we all turn out to be not only criminals, but also those who support terrorism and we may even undermine the stability of national currencies.
In a few years, some "experts" will appear who will claim that Bitcoin is one of the most important reasons for inflation, and they have already accused it of climate change because it consumes too much electricity - and even 0.2% of the total consumption in the world is too much ::)
I am never surprised by such things, because human stupidity is as infinite as the universe.
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From the very beginning, all those who used BTC as a currency were treated as criminals who are hiding something and dealing with illegal things - I think that this narrative is only getting better with time, i.e. that we all turn out to be not only criminals, but also those who support terrorism and we may even undermine the stability of national currencies.
It is absolutely true, here in my country they use this charge against those who work with Bitcoin. I mean the charge of "undermining the stability of the national currency." They are good at fabricating random charges.
Because of the stupidity and failure of the government here in my country, they know nothing about Bitcoin and call it a “foreign currency.” They consider anyone who deals in Bitcoin a criminal on charges of dealing in a foreign currency that causes damage to the national currency and may be sentenced to prison.
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While I was not able to get a hold of the exact legislation being proposed and written in Congress, there are rumors going out that there is a legislation they want to pass that would make not using an address multiple times a mixer.
I mean, what in the world are these people thinking? Clearly they don't know how a mixer works at all.
people underestimate the power of using an adress just once.
Sadly we have to use the same address over and over in signature campaigns. But this a terrible habit, and the privacy we achieve by creating a new address for every transaction is huge.
It is important also not to consolidate utxo from different addresses together.
Good topic NotATether. Discussions here are getting better and better.
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From the very beginning, all those who used BTC as a currency were treated as criminals who are hiding something and dealing with illegal things - I think that this narrative is only getting better with time, i.e. that we all turn out to be not only criminals, but also those who support terrorism and we may even undermine the stability of national currencies.
It is absolutely true, here in my country they use this charge against those who work with Bitcoin. I mean the charge of "undermining the stability of the national currency." They are good at fabricating random charges.
Because of the stupidity and failure of the government here in my country, they know nothing about Bitcoin and call it a “foreign currency.” They consider anyone who deals in Bitcoin a criminal on charges of dealing in a foreign currency that causes damage to the national currency and may be sentenced to prison.
It just means that the level of democracy in your country is at a lower level than in some other countries, but everywhere in the world governments use all possible mechanisms to place as many messages as possible on the air with which they try to tell people not to invest in Bitcoin.
The system that has been built for thousands of years is based on controlling people by all possible means, and money is what the elites use to control the world - because how else to explain that 5% of the world's population controls 90% of the world's wealth, and that 95% of people hardly try to do anything to change that?
Bitcoin as the idea of a decentralized currency is a nightmare for that centralized system, that's why they are trying to turn it in the direction where they can control it, which is complete control over CEXs, investing through spot/futures ETFs and a frontal attack on everything that has to do with privacy.
Some might say that idiots who do this are simply idiots, but an idiot who has a lot of money also has a lot of power - and money rules the world.
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Some might say that idiots who do this are simply idiots, but an idiot who has a lot of money also has a lot of power - and money rules the world.
An idiot who rules the world is not an idiot, that is a sinister, cunning person.
I have my doubts that someone who can't even summon common sense when it is desperately required is able to muster the resources to rule the world.
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The system that has been built for thousands of years is based on controlling people by all possible means, and money is what the elites use to control the world - because how else to explain that 5% of the world's population controls 90% of the world's wealth, and that 95% of people hardly try to do anything to change that?
Thank you, man. You have a deep reading and a complete understanding of the nature of the political and economic system that governs our entire world in secret and in public.
Yes, this is the case. Whoever has money has control and power. The few elite that have money are the ones who move governments and all policies in the world.
Bitcoin as the idea of a decentralized currency is a nightmare for that centralized system, that's why they are trying to turn it in the direction where they can control it, which is complete control over CEXs, investing through spot/futures ETFs and a frontal attack on everything that has to do with privacy.
Yes, I agree with you 100% on this point. Bitcoin, through centralization and privacy, is a nightmare for this central system, so governments that failed to prevent Bitcoin are trying to contain it by controlling central third-party services (CEX, spot/futures ETFs, and central payment services).
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An idiot who rules the world is not an idiot, that is a sinister, cunning person.
I have my doubts that someone who can't even summon common sense when it is desperately required is able to muster the resources to rule the world.
Well, I don't think they are idiots, they are just treating their followers as idiots and easy to be deceived :)
Currently, many politicians are looking for ways to attack Mixers but they haven't really found an effective way to do it. They know about the existence of Mixers, they can use Mixers but they haven't been able to figure out how to suppress Mixers. The criteria for identifying addresses related to Mixers are not getting much attention from the community, maybe everyone thinks it's silly and not worth caring about. We also don't need to worry too much about this until it is added to the law and officially enters the voting stage.
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Some might say that idiots who do this are simply idiots, but an idiot who has a lot of money also has a lot of power - and money rules the world.
An idiot who rules the world is not an idiot, that is a sinister, cunning person.
I have my doubts that someone who can't even summon common sense when it is desperately required is able to muster the resources to rule the world.
We can call them any names, but we should know that most of them are just pawns controlled by the most powerful people from the shadows - and they need loyal servants, not people who think for themselves.
The system that has been built for thousands of years is based on controlling people by all possible means, and money is what the elites use to control the world - because how else to explain that 5% of the world's population controls 90% of the world's wealth, and that 95% of people hardly try to do anything to change that?
Thank you, man. You have a deep reading and a complete understanding of the nature of the political and economic system that governs our entire world in secret and in public.
Yes, this is the case. Whoever has money has control and power. The few elite that have money are the ones who move governments and all policies in the world.
The world lives in a great paradox, on the one hand most people are dissatisfied with the life they have, and on the other hand they don't even try to use their right to vote to try to change something. Good people who could change something don't get a chance - because the saying goes that bad government is elected by good people who stay at home during elections.
However, not everything is so hopeless, because there are always people trying to change the system, but the changes I'm talking about don't happen overnight. Satoshi is one of the visionaries who had his own vision to give people an alternative, but the world is still far from accepting it. However, everyone who thinks differently because of him is a small cog that changes the system in his own unique way. Vires in numeris.
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However, not everything is so hopeless, because there are always people trying to change the system, but the changes I'm talking about don't happen overnight. Satoshi is one of the visionaries who had his own vision to give people an alternative, but the world is still far from accepting it. However, everyone who thinks differently because of him is a small cog that changes the system in his own unique way. Vires in numeris.
One thing that is getting worse and worse everyday is how our privacy is invaded. Sometimes when you order a beer at a club they ask for your personal data to fill up their database of customers. Or when you buy a t shirt
I think software developers are also to blame for this, because everyone is creating and seelling systems which have no respect for any privacy.
I think this is a problem in the mind set of most people. Asking documents looks cool nowadays
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However, not everything is so hopeless, because there are always people trying to change the system, but the changes I'm talking about don't happen overnight. Satoshi is one of the visionaries who had his own vision to give people an alternative, but the world is still far from accepting it. However, everyone who thinks differently because of him is a small cog that changes the system in his own unique way. Vires in numeris.
One thing that is getting worse and worse everyday is how our privacy is invaded. Sometimes when you order a beer at a club they ask for your personal data to fill up their database of customers. Or when you buy a t shirt
I think software developers are also to blame for this, because everyone is creating and seelling systems which have no respect for any privacy.
I think this is a problem in the mind set of most people. Asking documents looks cool nowadays
Yes, these things have become unbearably annoying, especially here in my country. When I receive a money order, for example, if it is less than $200, they only ask for the ID and phone number. However, if the amount exceeds $200, in a trivial amount, the employee begins by requesting documents and directing a package of Stupid questions, such as where do you live, where did you get the money from, what is your job, who sent you the money, and... and... as if she thought I would use this measly $200 to support terrorism.
If Bitcoin were accepted here in my country, I would get rid of all this annoying stuff.
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One thing that is getting worse and worse everyday is how our privacy is invaded. Sometimes when you order a beer at a club they ask for your personal data to fill up their database of customers. Or when you buy a t shirt
I haven't experienced it yet, but in case someone asks me for such information because I drank beer somewhere or bought some clothes, that would be the last time I bought something there. Maybe it's different in the EU with regard to data protection, but more or less all stores have their loyalty cards, and in order to get one you have to fill out an application form in which they ask for absolutely all possible information.
I think software developers are also to blame for this, because everyone is creating and seelling systems which have no respect for any privacy.
I think this is a problem in the mind set of most people. Asking documents looks cool nowadays
Some people may actually develop such software themselves, but it seems to me that most of the work is done on the orders of clients - which means that they want to know as much as possible about their customers in order to be able to show them advertisements and send promotional SMS/e-mails as efficiently as possible. If you know what the customer needs/buys, then you will be able to sell him even more, and the whole society revolves around consumerism, which of course stimulates the growth of the economy and allegedly creates a more successful society.
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Maybe it's different in the EU with regard to data protection, but more or less all stores have their loyalty cards, and in order to get one you have to fill out an application form in which they ask for absolutely all possible information.
In Brazil, loyalty cards usually give you access to huge discounts (like 30-40% off).
If you don't hand over your personal data, you will pay 30-40% more.
In the end, there isn't any discount. You must give your data to be able to buy for the real price....
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Maybe it's different in the EU with regard to data protection, but more or less all stores have their loyalty cards, and in order to get one you have to fill out an application form in which they ask for absolutely all possible information.
In Brazil, loyalty cards usually give you access to huge discounts (like 30-40% off).
If you don't hand over your personal data, you will pay 30-40% more.
In the end, there isn't any discount. You must give your data to be able to buy for the real price....
Your personal data, all of it together, your whole "profile", all of that is worth more than a Rolex. Or a lambo. Maybe not as valuable as a mansion, but you can fetch at least 6 figures on it if everything about you is processed in a way that advertisers, stalkers and other malefactors want it in.
Before there was AI, there was data science, which is mostly used for that purpose. Still, there were some legitimate uses of it with public data, but most companies were harvesting private data and they get away with it because, what, people are happy downloading a survey app and earning $1? Per day??
People who sell their personal information are getting massively scammed by these companies.
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Your personal data, all of it together, your whole "profile", all of that is worth more than a Rolex. Or a lambo. Maybe not as valuable as a mansion, but you can fetch at least 6 figures on it if everything about you is processed in a way that advertisers, stalkers and other malefactors want it in.
People who sell their personal information are getting massively scammed by these companies.
It really is a world-wide tragedy what is happening... :'(
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It really is a world-wide tragedy what is happening... :'(
The tragedy will be even greater when they harness AI for their purposes, and the latest move shows that they want exactly that. China and some other "democratic" countries have gone much further in this direction, so we should not be surprised that Western democracies do not want to fall behind them. Controlling people, their actions and directing them in a certain direction is the biggest preoccupation of the modern world.
OpenAI just appointed a former director of the National Security Agency (NSA) to its board of directors, and Edward Snowden is not happy.
“Do not ever trust OpenAI or its products,” the NSA employee turned whistleblower wrote on X Friday morning, after the company announced retired U.S. Army Gen. Paul Nakasone’s appointment to the board’s new safety and security committee. “There’s only one reason for appointing [an NSA director] to your board. This is a willful, calculated betrayal of the rights of every person on earth.”
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OpenAI just appointed a former director of the National Security Agency (NSA) to its board of directors, and Edward Snowden is not happy.
“Do not ever trust OpenAI or its products,” the NSA employee turned whistleblower wrote on X Friday morning, after the company announced retired U.S. Army Gen. Paul Nakasone’s appointment to the board’s new safety and security committee. “There’s only one reason for appointing [an NSA director] to your board. This is a willful, calculated betrayal of the rights of every person on earth.”
Oh man. I am already considering dumping my ChatGPT subscription, but I will be waiting to see how Apple Intelligence does first and if it is much better than GPT4 (and most importantly, does it have the same performance when running offline, or not).