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Learning & News => News related to Crypto => Topic started by: TomPluz on June 15, 2024, 03:17:34 AM

Title: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: TomPluz on June 15, 2024, 03:17:34 AM
(https://insights.som.yale.edu/sites/default/files/styles/max_2600x2600/public/2024-01/bitcoin%20currency%20el%20salvador.jpg?itok=DhZI76G0)

More of this El Salvador-Bitcoin development here. (https://news.bitcoin.com/el-salvador-bitcoin-liberalize-fiat-currencies/)

Quote

El Salvador’s bitcoin roadmap might include a deeper integration of the crypto asset as part of its economic future. Felix Ulloa, Vice-President of El Salvador, recently stated that bitcoin might become a tool to liberate El Salvador from using fiat currencies, including the U.S. dollar.

Ulloa highlighted the role of bitcoin in the rebirth of the Salvadoran economy, reinforcing the link between crypto and the tourism industry. In October, he assessed that “tourism and the use of digital currencies go hand in hand and are a sign of that future and the rebirth of our country.”




I remember the time when IMF warned El Salvador that its adoption of Bitcoin can be so risky to the country's economy and even demanded to change its stance on Bitcoin in exchange for loans and yet "the IMF report applauded the growth  (https://www.dw.com/en/imf-warns-el-salvador-of-bitcoin-risks/a-64676588)of the Salvadoran economy by 2.8% in 2022. It cited the government's effective pandemic response, the "unprecedented" crime reduction and the strong tourism revenues."

Though I would say that the use of Bitcoin in El Salvador has not yet reached on a massive success level, there is no question that they have started to get freed from the shackles of both internal and external forces out to control this small country's destiny.

I am then hoping that as years go by, we can witness the many advantages of using Bitcoin as a national currency in El Salvador. Do you see a great future of Bitcoin in El Salvador say within 5 or 10 years from now or do you see a great future of Bitcoin but without El Salvador on the scene?





Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Stompix on June 15, 2024, 05:09:07 PM
Though I would say that the use of Bitcoin in El Salvador has not yet reached on a massive success level, there is no question that they have started to get freed from the shackles of both internal and external forces out to control this small country's destiny.

Unfortunately behind all that there is a grim reality of what a populist government does, so we need to check some facts.

1) Everyone was thrilled how supposedly Salvador paid its maturing debt out of the blue but ignored how this was paid, 450 from Central American Bank for Economic Integration and 100 million from Inter-American Development Bank
https://latinfinance.com/daily-brief/2023/01/18/idb-grants-loans-to-el-salvador-argentina/
2) Salvador issued another 1.5 billion in bonds a month ago:
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/el-salvador-congress-approves-15-bln-debt-issuance-2024-05-22/
3) Bukele actually said he was in deep talks with the IMF
El Salvador Bonds Soar After Nayib Bukele Tells Investors He’s Working With the IMF (https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/el-salvador-bonds-soar-after-nayib-bukele-tells-investors-he-s-working-with-the-imf-1.2029628)
4) This is the cherry on the cake:
https://www.globalcapital.com/article/2d44tmst4n3d8s0mkk4jk/people-and-markets/comment/el-salvadors-bond-is-innovation-for-all-the-wrong-reasons
Quote
El Salvador is returning to global debt markets with a dual-tranche offer, including a bond that will pay investors a higher interest rate unless the government can win credit upgrades or a deal with the International Monetary Fund.
This will pay investors 0.25% for the next 18 months. After that, this rate will jump to 4% for the rest of the bond's life, unless El Salvador has met one of two conditions. Either it must agree a new deal with the International Monetary Fund, or it must be upgraded from B-/CCC+ to B/B.

Bitcoin can provide one with freedom, it can provide one with returns, but it can only do that much, it won't help if somebody is running the country into the ground based on a relly, but really bad plan. You mentioned growth, problem is that the growth which might still great by what first world countries do was the worst for two consecutive years in Central America:

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Guatemala  4.1%  3.5%
Panama  10.8%  5.1%
Honduras 4%   3.2% 
Salvador 2.6%  2.7%
Nicaragua 3.8%  3.1% 
Costa Rica 4.6%  4.1%
Belize 8.7% 4.2%

I would say Bitcoin is much like an antivirus, it can protect you perfectly but if the user is simply bent on doing stupid things no antivirus in the world will be able to save your ass once you disable it and download cracks from darknet website.
It's going to free the citizens of Salvador, but the country itself, that's a different thing!

ps: I understand that the article is written with russia today sources and obviously biased but they should at least get the dates right.
Quote
El Salvador adopted the U.S. dollar in 2020,
It was 2001,
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Faisal2202 on June 15, 2024, 08:04:48 PM
Though I would say that the use of Bitcoin in El Salvador has not yet reached on a massive success level, there is no question that they have started to get freed from the shackles of both internal and external forces out to control this small country's destiny.
You are right it was not a massive success for El Salvador, I think it would be massive if foreigners from all around the world would take it as a crypto-friendly hub and then they might invest in good projects there as well. It would only be possible if the developers of El Salvador would have some investment opportunity for foreigners like some good project.

As a crypto-friendly country, investors would happily invest in it. Overall, Speaking od the economic situation, I hope it will not change for the country again, and even if it changes the country have to diversify their investments so the economy won't get affected that much. We all know market is highly volatile.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Lucius on June 17, 2024, 02:55:39 PM
@Stompix actually showed the reality that is often overshadowed by showing some great future that awaits ES because they "legalized" BTC, and at the same time the number of people using it is very small - regardless of the constant talk about how tourists come to ES precisely because they can pay with BTC. The fact is that very few people choose this payment option, and mostly it is about transactions of small value.

The problem with using BTC as a national currency is its volatility and I don't see how any country could function in a way that has BTC as its only currency.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Aanuoluwatofunmi on June 17, 2024, 06:01:22 PM
The moment we started to realized the potential in us and the delivery capacity of what we can offer to ourself and the world, we are not going to be intimidated by those who offer us nothing than to enslave us under their regulations and always make us dependent of their economy system and policies, in case of El-Salvador, they have realized this earlier and that is because they are having the right president who could effect every necessary change that could affect the lives of every individuals in the country, they could listen to IMF then and today, they are happy in their decision.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: yhiaali3 on June 17, 2024, 10:16:27 PM
It is certain that the adoption of Bitcoin has brought some economic improvement to El Salvador by diversifying economic options, attracting tourists, and some investments here and there, but not to a sufficient extent, and Bitcoin will not be the magic solution for any country suffering from major economic problems.

It is very difficult at the present time to adopt Bitcoin as a major national currency alternative to the dollar because of its great volatility and also because of the high fees that citizens may have to pay to buy some small items.

But despite all this, I am optimistic that through continuous work to develop the experiment and avoid errors and problems, the experiment can achieve some important successes in the future.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: SamReomo on June 18, 2024, 02:06:23 AM
The problem with using BTC as a national currency is its volatility and I don't see how any country could function in a way that has BTC as its only currency.
I think you're right, the volatility of Bitcoin won't allow any country to use it as its main currency because in bear market Bitcoin loses its value while in bull market it gains value.

The loss of value in previous bear market was so intense and that let Bitcoin to reach values of $16k while in this bull run it crossed the value of $73k and it can go over that when this bull run gets intense.

Even on daily and weekly basis Bitcoin gains and losses value and if it becomes the main currency of a country then it will be almost impossible to use it on daily basis as one can use fiat.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: TomPluz on June 18, 2024, 03:32:41 AM
You are right it was not a massive success for El Salvador, I think it would be massive if foreigners from all around the world would take it as a crypto-friendly hub and then they might invest in good projects there as well. It would only be possible if the developers of El Salvador would have some investment opportunity for foreigners like some good project.

I am sure El Salvador is already thinking along that line when they saw some good success with its tourism with the use of cryptocurrency and I think they can start in there and build more on that. I understand that the government of Nayib Bukele has many plans on the table and are just waiting for implementations including that grand plan to use power coming from a volcano or geothermal energy for miners to come to El Salvador which can be opening more opportunities for the country to enjoy. As it is, managing a country even a small one can be a challenging task and for sure there will be ups and downs and of course there will be others who will not agree with the government and the things it is doing. At the end of the day, what is important is that the government is working for the people and not the interest of external forces.



Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Faisal2202 on June 22, 2024, 06:50:04 PM
I am sure El Salvador is already thinking along that line when they saw some good success with its tourism with the use of cryptocurrency and I think they can start in there and build more on that. I understand that the government of Nayib Bukele has many plans on the table and are just waiting for implementations including that grand plan to use power coming from a volcano or geothermal energy for miners to come to El Salvador which can be opening more opportunities for the country to enjoy. As it is, managing a country even a small one can be a challenging task and for sure there will be ups and downs and of course there will be others who will not agree with the government and the things it is doing. At the end of the day, what is important is that the government is working for the people and not the interest of external forces.
Yep, they are thinking along this line as well, I just read there six projects and three of them are already in progress and made them some benefit. I liked there project of Volcano mining, which is cheap and yeah it will really attract foreigners to spend money in this country to set up their own rigs. If governments allowed it. Out of these six projects, one is Bitcoin Citizenship, they are asking for $1 Million in BTC to give you lifetime of residency in El Salvador, I think if we see the bigger picture.

If El Salvdaor become a successful entity in future then I think $1 Million is not a big deal, but for now, I think its a little expensive. Plus I have seen a lot of cyber attacks on El Salvador, as hackers are sharing there ATM's OS code, There buses, schools, students information in Darkweb and forums. I have seen those data (but can't confirm the authenticity due to lack of self-knowledge). But I am pretty sure they really need expert in the field of Cryber Security.  (Source to 6 plans (https://www.dlnews.com/articles/people-culture/six-bitcoin-projects-from-nayib-bukele-el-salvador))
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: taufik123 on June 22, 2024, 07:40:48 PM
The country of El Salvador is a vivid example of how bitcoin is used properly, as it is for the primary use for legal tender.
But even so, the risk will indeed occur.

In Elsalvador, there are pros and cons to Bitcoin adoption, but President Bukele assured his people not to worry because Bitcoin will give them profits and Bitcoin investment El-Salvador is now successful and the first country to have a lot of bitcoin assets and Bitcoin mining that uses geothermal power.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Captain Corporate on June 22, 2024, 09:05:00 PM
I mean they are not fully wrong, USA is controlling the whole world with its usage of Dollars on everything as much as it can, the whole world sees dollar as a reliable currency, you can go to whole world, any place, any small island, or any huge nation and if you have dollars, you can find an exchange to get the local currency. But that causes a lot of trouble for smaller nations, and if they can peg their interest against dollars, then they are going to do better. We are going to see bitcoin go higher than dollars, so if El Salvador invests heavily into bitcoin, they are going to get richer compared to dollar value.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Aanuoluwatofunmi on June 22, 2024, 10:17:02 PM
Very soon now, we are going to be having bitcoin dominance just as the fiat currency have always been, we don't have to rush on this with bitcoin, instead we are taking over gradually by the increasing level of its adoption all over the world, people already have seen the relevance in the use of bitcoin as a currency and an asset for their investment, but not only that, its seen as a profitable one which also have a multi facet applications on where it can be used, for what it can be used and how it can make the required and effective changes needed. 
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Kemarit on June 28, 2024, 03:44:08 AM
Though I would say that the use of Bitcoin in El Salvador has not yet reached on a massive success level, there is no question that they have started to get freed from the shackles of both internal and external forces out to control this small country's destiny.
You are right it was not a massive success for El Salvador, I think it would be massive if foreigners from all around the world would take it as a crypto-friendly hub and then they might invest in good projects there as well. It would only be possible if the developers of El Salvador would have some investment opportunity for foreigners like some good project.

As a crypto-friendly country, investors would happily invest in it. Overall, Speaking od the economic situation, I hope it will not change for the country again, and even if it changes the country have to diversify their investments so the economy won't get affected that much. We all know market is highly volatile.

It depends on what kind of investments though, if it will be bitcoin mining could be good but the government will have to subsidized the electricity and I'm not sure how El Salvador capacity to supply Bitcoin miners or if they themselves, the government has the total monopoly of bitcoin mining.

And still we have to think for the long term, yeah, Bukele could have won his re-election, but for sure he can't stay that long as he will be a dictator. Unless the one that will run the country next is under his political affiliations, then Bitcoin for them is still going to be in the gray area as for now it is being attached to who is going to be the next and future President of the country.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: snowpega on June 28, 2024, 04:09:33 PM
<Snip>

Yes, Dear, if we see El Salvador is very bullish on Bitcoin, where once i have read a news where El Salvador President announced that the government will keep buying bitcoin until it is affordable or they have sufficient fiat to buy bitcoin, and from these we can get an idea of how much El Salvador is bullish on Bitcoin. This thing encourages other investors to invest in their country and many are interested to hold the nationality of El Salvador Especially Crypto Lovers.

Besides this, i have seen some videos on the Social platform where kids are paying their food bills using Bitcoin Payment method and this thing also promotes the adoption of the bitcoin around the world on social platform. Many may inspire with this idea and on the same side if we focus on another point which is Bitcoin is becoming more adoptable in America also as President Trump also supporting this at that time so we may see Good days of Crypto very soon. All depends!
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Z-tight on June 28, 2024, 05:58:01 PM
The reality is that people in El Salvador do not really use BTC, so many of them only downloaded the Chivo wallet, because of the $30 that was attached to it. We have to wake up to the reality that BTC was not created to solve the problems of countries, and it is an alternative currency to fiat. BTC has its original purposes and if people actually understand it, they would not expect so much from it.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Captain Corporate on June 28, 2024, 07:26:20 PM
I do love the idea that they are trying their very best to get rid of the fiat currencies, no matter which one. This isn't really attacking to USA alone though, if it was like "we do not like the us dollar, we are moving to russian ruble or Chinese yuan or European euro" or whatever, then I would understand that we are talking about something regards to USA and attacking them. However, we are talking about them moving to crypto instead of fiat, and that means any fiat. That could mean that they just don't like fiat and they prefer bitcoin for their future which is what we should be considering as well anyway.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Crwth on June 28, 2024, 07:36:14 PM
I don’t get much the point of the question, but I think since they started allowing it in becoming legal and they are not probably going to stop now, even if it’s a few years from now. The only thing possible in this case is changing of leadership and then maybe have a different stance With bitcoin or something.

I do hope that they have the future with bitcoin and also because of bitcoin. That’s going to be an awesome thing for everyone within the crypto space.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Gurujebs on June 28, 2024, 07:42:17 PM
I am then hoping that as years go by, we can witness the many advantages of using Bitcoin as a national currency in El Salvador. Do you see a great future of Bitcoin in El Salvador say within 5 or 10 years from now or do you see a great future of Bitcoin but without El Salvador on the scene?

As much as this will act like a stepping stone for other countries to see the good side of Bitcoin, El Salvador isn't utilizing Bitcoin to it's full potential. The country still use Fiat as legal tender but they used US currency instead of their own local currency and that's because their currency was later replace from colon for reasons I don't understand.

If El Salvador isn't really forcing Bitcoin to many of its citizens, I don't think many will even want to use it but since it's a legal tender, merchants will be force to accept it but many of them wouldn't utilize because of volatility issues.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Faisal2202 on June 29, 2024, 05:53:53 PM
It depends on what kind of investments though, if it will be bitcoin mining could be good but the government will have to subsidized the electricity and I'm not sure how El Salvador capacity to supply Bitcoin miners or if they themselves, the government has the total monopoly of bitcoin mining.
That's the big issue, no one would want only one government to be involved or own the entire project of providing cheaper electricity to BTC miners. But if we broad our search, then we will find that almost in all over the world, every single cheap electricity program owner is one government or one entity. So this don't make a big difference, its just a small limitation with which we have to compromise. And they are not just going to monopoly the whole thing of cheap electricity for some bucks while in the long run they can get more.

I am talking about there volcano electricity plant providing cheap electricity for mining.
And still we have to think for the long term, yeah, Bukele could have won his re-election, but for sure he can't stay that long as he will be a dictator. Unless the one that will run the country next is under his political affiliations, then Bitcoin for them is still going to be in the gray area as for now it is being attached to who is going to be the next and future President of the country.
That's a good point as well, if the opposition parties in the countries are most concerned about the overall country progress instead of going after the presidential seat with all of there efforts then its a good place for investors otherwise not.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Stompix on June 30, 2024, 03:42:59 PM
It depends on what kind of investments though, if it will be bitcoin mining could be good but the government will have to subsidized the electricity and I'm not sure how El Salvador capacity to supply Bitcoin miners or if they themselves, the government has the total monopoly of bitcoin mining.
That's the big issue, no one would want only one government to be involved or own the entire project of providing cheaper electricity to BTC miners. But if we broad our search, then we will find that almost in all over the world, every single cheap electricity program owner is one government or one entity. So this don't make a big difference, its just a small limitation with which we have to compromise. And they are not just going to monopoly the whole thing of cheap electricity for some bucks while in the long run they can get more.

I am talking about there volcano electricity plant providing cheap electricity for mining.

Yeah , yeah, the magical volcano energy....

First! Salvador is a net importer of electricity!

Second, after closing his Twitter page when he brags about volcano energy Bukele went and cut the inauguration at a 387.1MW gas fired power plant
https://www.power-technology.com/data-insights/power-plant-profile-acajutla-flexicycle-power-plant-el-salvador/

Third, there is a f* FSRU ship that converts LNG imports to gas to fee the system right in front of the port where you would have had Bitcoin city:
https://bw-group.com/our-businesses/bw-lng/projects/acajutla-fsru-project-in-el-salvador/

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With nominal project CAPEX of roughly US$1 billion, the project is El Salvador’s ‘largest ever foreign direct investments in El Salvador’, Invenergy said in a statement announcing the project’s close on financing in December 2019.
Its capacity is designed to meet around 30 pct of the country’s energy demand.
The project’s legal advisers specify the project comprises the power plant, FSRU (permanently moored through a modified spread mooring system), subsea pipeline and a 44-km, 230-kilovolt transmission line and related substations to connect the power plant to El Salvador’s electrical grid.

Now please do tell me more about this cheap "volcano" energy and the lies Bukele is spreading that some actually believe in.
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: Faisal2202 on July 06, 2024, 05:30:08 PM
Yes, Dear, if we see El Salvador is very bullish on Bitcoin, where once i have read a news where El Salvador President announced that the government will keep buying bitcoin until it is affordable or they have sufficient fiat to buy bitcoin, and from these we can get an idea of how much El Salvador is bullish on Bitcoin. This thing encourages other investors to invest in their country and many are interested to hold the nationality of El Salvador Especially Crypto Lovers.
They also introduced a plan for nationality as well which will require a person to give them $1 million dollar in BTC form to get permanent nationality of that country. I think $1 million is a lot of money because in some countries you work on the basis of a work visa or there might be some other factors and in the end after spending so many years you get a green card from the country means nationality. I might have missed some points but I can say for sure that none of the tier 1 countries would require a person to give them $1 million to get permanent nationality CMIIW.
Besides this, i have seen some videos on the Social platform where kids are paying their food bills using Bitcoin Payment method and this thing also promotes the adoption of the bitcoin around the world on social platform. Many may inspire with this idea and on the same side if we focus on another point which is Bitcoin is becoming more adoptable in America also as President Trump also supporting this at that time so we may see Good days of Crypto very soon. All depends!
Some people might not agree with these kids for spending BTC on food or regular day-to-day uses. Because I have seen most of people prefer to take BTC as an asset and they don't want to use it as a currency for day-to-day uses. But some people are using it what's your take on this? Is this good for these kids to pay with BTC for their food?
Title: Re: El Salvador: BTC a Tool to Liberate the Nation From Fiat Currencies
Post by: snowpega on July 09, 2024, 05:56:32 PM
They also introduced a plan for nationality as well which will require a person to give them $1 million dollar in BTC form to get permanent nationality of that country. I think $1 million is a lot of money because in some countries you work on the basis of a work visa or there might be some other factors and in the end after spending so many years you get a green card from the country means nationality. I might have missed some points but I can say for sure that none of the tier 1 countries would require a person to give them $1 million to get permanent nationality CMIIW.

Yes, Buddy, there is nothing new here as many of the countries give you nationality on an investment basis for that you need to invest a fair amount in their country then in return they will give you a Passport of their country which means you will then also the legal resident of that country. So, that is why it is not new that El Salvador offers their green card for $1 Million Dollars. Besides this, there are many different ways to get country nationality let's say you want to have the nationality of UK and you are there with a Work Permit Visa and you need to live there for 5 years and during all this time you have to stay away from all legal activities and you need to show your all income so that you can pay your taxes according to their designed system. Then, after 5 years you will be eligible to receive your nationality of this country. The criteria for student visas are different. If you also need information about that we can have further discussion on this haha!

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Some people might not agree with these kids for spending BTC on food or regular day-to-day uses. Because I have seen most of people prefer to take BTC as an asset and they don't want to use it as a currency for day-to-day uses. But some people are using it what's your take on this? Is this good for these kids to pay with BTC for their food?

TBH, dear I don't have that much information about this but sometimes they need to pay less amount but the fee can be high right? Besides this if you don't mind may I ask you some questions? what can of impact the Bitcoin network have if it starts to use as more and more for majority payments assume it for just example. It is just a noob question haha! I know! I want to know it from your point of view. Many Thanks!  :)