Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Crypto Discussion Forum => Cryptocurrency discussions => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: Yamane_Keto on June 22, 2024, 08:06:21 AM
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Use this tutorial to use electrum plugin for joinstr on Ubuntu. https://uncensoredtech.substack.com/p/tutorial-electrum-plugin-for-joinstr
Downloading the latest electrum version, verifying the signatures, and run the below commands
$ sudo apt-get install automake libtool
$ ./contrib/make_libsecp256k1.sh
$ sudo apt-get install python3-pyqt5
Install plugin dependencies:
$ pip install nostrj
$ pip install pyqtspinner
$ pip install pillow
$ pip install qrcode
Download this file https://gitlab.com/invincible-privacy/joinstr/-/tree/main/plugin/zip/v0.1.0 Extract and save it.
Unpack directory into your electrum/plugins directory.
(If you don't know it, running electrum.plugins.__path__ in the Electrum console tab.)
Restart Electrum, and then
./run_electrum —signet
Save these settings:
(https://talkimg.com/images/2024/06/22/hTnzm.png)
Then you will have 3 options through which you can create a new pool, your pools or view other pools,join one of those pools and then you will see the QR code for their public key, pay a one time fee to use this key and Once all peers register signed inputs, coinjoin transaction is created and broadcasted.
For steps to create your own pool, click on the tutorial link. https://uncensoredtech.substack.com/p/tutorial-electrum-plugin-for-joinstr
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Interesting
Coinjoins are evolving a lot and there are many new ones coming up.
There is comparison here about different coinjoins and joints
https://docs.joinstr.xyz/overview/comparison-with-other-coinjoin-implementations
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Interesting
Coinjoins are evolving a lot and there are many new ones coming up.
There is comparison here about different coinjoins and joints
https://docs.joinstr.xyz/overview/comparison-with-other-coinjoin-implementations
The Coinjoin joinstr application on the electrum plugin is considered easier, less complicated, using SIGHASH_ALL | SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY sighash flag and provides higher security than using wabisabi but the problem is in Sybil Resistance, it may be implemented in future versions.
https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/anonymous-usage-tokens-from-curve-trees-or-autct/862/2
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Great to see another alternative coinjoin implementation that is working with electrum wallet!
I see more advantages compared to regular coinjoin that is used in wasabi wallet with coordinators, and main one is more decentralization.
I would also like to see fee comparison of joinstr vs coinjoin, and maybe it's time for Electrum to add Tor switch in wallet.
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Good to see the working plugin. But once they support mainnet, they should add warning that they won't get much privacy without running their own Electrum server. Electrum by default send list address on our wallet to Electrum servers.
I would also like to see fee comparison of joinstr vs coinjoin, and maybe it's time for Electrum to add Tor switch in wallet.
Did you mistyped something? joinstr is a variant of coinjoin.
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I would also like to see fee comparison of joinstr vs coinjoin, and maybe it's time for Electrum to add Tor switch in wallet.
This?
(https://talkimg.com/images/2024/06/27/h41mW.png)
https://docs.joinstr.xyz/overview/comparison-with-other-coinjoin-implementations
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This?
I said FEE comparison ;)
For example Joinmarket can have much higher fees than Coinjoin, and that could be one of the reasons it is not used more nowadays.
With coinjoin coordinators can change and set any fees they want, and they can also add censorship.
Liquidity is also important, more coins mean more privacy.
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This?
I said FEE comparison ;)
For example Joinmarket can have much higher fees than Coinjoin, and that could be one of the reasons it is not used more nowadays.
With coinjoin coordinators can change and set any fees they want, and they can also add censorship.
Liquidity is also important, more coins mean more privacy.
Now i understand what you actually mean. In that case, i expect using joinstr usually would be lower than using different coinjoin service/protocol. joinstr website and documentation state this.
What fees do I need to pay for using joinstr?
a) Transaction fees which is contributed by all the participants
b) Nostr relay fee if using a paid relay
Costs
All users pay equal fees in every round which in total is used for transaction fees. Only 1 transaction is required for coinjoin and fees depends on the mempool when pool is created. Each user would pay approximately 2000 sats if 10 sat/vbyte fee rate is used for the coinjoin transaction. Participants can also use paid nostr relays although there needs to be at least 1 common relay between the participants for coordination to work properly.
But some WabiSabi service listed on https://wabisator.com/ (https://wabisator.com/) also offer 0% fee.
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But some WabiSabi service listed on https://wabisator.com/ (https://wabisator.com/) also offer 0% fee.
But will the development of Wasabi Wallet continue? They closed their coordinator due to fear of regulatory authorities, and I think for the same reason they may stop developing the wallet. I do not want to say that Wasabi Wallet has became a dead wallet.
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But will the development of Wasabi Wallet continue? They closed their coordinator due to fear of regulatory authorities, and I think for the same reason they may stop developing the wallet. I do not want to say that Wasabi Wallet has became a dead wallet.
Wasabi wallet is open source and can be easily forked, there is already one forked project Ginger wallet that supports censorship.
I don't know for sure what current Wasabi developers have in mind, but I heard they have plans to make major changes in future (probably in 2025).
I also visited Wasabi github page and I see it's very active:
https://github.com/WalletWasabi
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But some WabiSabi service listed on https://wabisator.com/ (https://wabisator.com/) also offer 0% fee.
But will the development of Wasabi Wallet continue? They closed their coordinator due to fear of regulatory authorities, and I think for the same reason they may stop developing the wallet. I do not want to say that Wasabi Wallet has became a dead wallet.
Nobody knows for sure. But aside from stated by @dkbit98, there's company behind Wasabi Wallet called zkSNACKs. I expect they'll find ways to continue develop the technology without stopped by government, when other technology such as Tor remain legal.
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But some WabiSabi service listed on https://wabisator.com/ (https://wabisator.com/) also offer 0% fee.
But will the development of Wasabi Wallet continue? They closed their coordinator due to fear of regulatory authorities, and I think for the same reason they may stop developing the wallet. I do not want to say that Wasabi Wallet has became a dead wallet.
Nobody knows for sure. But aside from stated by @dkbit98, there's company behind Wasabi Wallet called zkSNACKs. I expect they'll find ways to continue develop the technology without stopped by government, when other technology such as Tor remain legal.
Some developers from the wasabi may also contribute to another tools in different coinjoin implementations or just other coordinators. I think the protocol will keep evolving
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Now i understand what you actually mean. In that case, i expect using joinstr usually would be lower than using different coinjoin service/protocol. joinstr website and documentation state this.
Thanks, but I would like to see the actual fees in real life.
I am willing to pay a bit higher fees if that means more decentralization and coordinators being eliminated.
But some WabiSabi service listed on https://wabisator.com/ (https://wabisator.com/) also offer 0% fee.
I know, but whole process is not decentralized.
Some developers from the wasabi may also contribute to another tools in different coinjoin implementations or just other coordinators. I think the protocol will keep evolving
They need to remove all centralization, and I don't think this is impossible task for them.
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Now i understand what you actually mean. In that case, i expect using joinstr usually would be lower than using different coinjoin service/protocol. joinstr website and documentation state this.
Thanks, but I would like to see the actual fees in real life.
I am willing to pay a bit higher fees if that means more decentralization and coordinators being eliminated.
But some WabiSabi service listed on https://wabisator.com/ (https://wabisator.com/) also offer 0% fee.
I know, but whole process is not decentralized.
Some developers from the wasabi may also contribute to another tools in different coinjoin implementations or just other coordinators. I think the protocol will keep evolving
They need to remove all centralization, and I don't think this is impossible task for them.
Looking at joinstr updated FAQ, you could try it to perform real life fee comparison.
Can I use joinstr on mainnet right now?
Yes. Electrum plugin can be used on mainnet. However there is no sybil resistance added yet so avoid using untrusted relays and suspicious pools.
Although the warning makes me feel it won't be much better than choosing one of WabiSabi coordinator.
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Although the warning makes me feel it won't be much better than choosing one of WabiSabi coordinator.
I can't find any good information or discussion about Joinstr relays and pools, I don't even have that plugin option in my Electrum wallet and I am 100% using the latest version 4.5.5.
Apparently there are coordinators in Joinstr also... that can be anyone running Nostr relay.
This is all probably early stage of development but I think Joinstr in theory have more advantage compared to wasabi coordinators.
I found developer of Joinstr on twitter and this is what he is saying about wadsabi coordinators:
1 coordinator that censors some UTXOs and partnered with chain analysis company - gingerwallet
1 coordinator which has address reuse issues and inputs could be linked with outputs - btip.nl
5 wabisabi coordinators that are dead and did no coinjoin in last few days - kukks.org, starloop.cc, opencoordinator.org, dragondance.com, mega.cash.
So there are only 2 coordinators that remain relevant for now
https://x.com/1440000bytes/status/1807914437577204040
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This is great but it shouldn't be this hard to install an electrum plugin. I remember I have always struggled to look for documentation on how to install new plugins, because in the Electrum UI there is no such mechanism for installing a new plugin.
I found developer of Joinstr on twitter and this is what he is saying about wadsabi coordinators:
1 coordinator that censors some UTXOs and partnered with chain analysis company - gingerwallet
1 coordinator which has address reuse issues and inputs could be linked with outputs - btip.nl
5 wabisabi coordinators that are dead and did no coinjoin in last few days - kukks.org, starloop.cc, opencoordinator.org, dragondance.com, mega.cash.
So there are only 2 coordinators that remain relevant for now
https://x.com/1440000bytes/status/1807914437577204040
To be honest, I am not happy with Ginger Wallet's actions at all. I'm thinking of putting an exclamation mark next to them on my site.
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To be honest, I am not happy with Ginger Wallet's actions at all. I'm thinking of putting an exclamation mark next to them on my site.
It's their project and they can do whatever they want with it, but market will decide in the end if they are going to survive or not.
Something good came out after recent arrests and bans, so now we can clearly see there is a lot of interest for better privacy with Bitcoin.
I am sure we are going to see something great soon, maybe mimble wimble for Bitcoin, better etter Joinstr wallet or something totally new.
Silent Payments is another step into good direction.
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I found developer of Joinstr on twitter and this is what he is saying about wadsabi coordinators:
1 coordinator that censors some UTXOs and partnered with chain analysis company - gingerwallet
1 coordinator which has address reuse issues and inputs could be linked with outputs - btip.nl
5 wabisabi coordinators that are dead and did no coinjoin in last few days - kukks.org, starloop.cc, opencoordinator.org, dragondance.com, mega.cash.
So there are only 2 coordinators that remain relevant for now
https://x.com/1440000bytes/status/1807914437577204040
gingerwallet may last for a while. Governments need a backdoor to track bitcoin and will allow any similar service to work, but downloading a wallet to use a coordinator is something that no one looking for privacy would do.
2 coordinators are very sufficient due to the presence of mixers, and I think that some mixers may manage new coordinators as it is easier to mix bitcoin using mixers instead of managing or dealing with coordinators.
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I found developer of Joinstr on twitter and this is what he is saying about wadsabi coordinators:
1 coordinator that censors some UTXOs and partnered with chain analysis company - gingerwallet
1 coordinator which has address reuse issues and inputs could be linked with outputs - btip.nl
5 wabisabi coordinators that are dead and did no coinjoin in last few days - kukks.org, starloop.cc, opencoordinator.org, dragondance.com, mega.cash.
So there are only 2 coordinators that remain relevant for now
https://x.com/1440000bytes/status/1807914437577204040
To be honest, I am not happy with Ginger Wallet's actions at all. I'm thinking of putting an exclamation mark next to them on my site.
What would happen in this case for censored UTXO? Would they just give back, or would they just confiscate the funds from you?
As the wallet is open source, maybe there is a clue about it?
Or is the coordinator which ginger uses closed source?
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What would happen in this case for censored UTXO? Would they just give back, or would they just confiscate the funds from you?
As the wallet is open source, maybe there is a clue about it?
Or is the coordinator which ginger uses closed source?
They are filtering who can use them coordinator. By restricting who can use the coordinator, they will not allow you to join a coinjoin transaction if your address does not meet their terms of use, and if you are a US citizen, you will be blocked from downloading the wallet.
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gingerwallet may last for a while. Governments need a backdoor to track bitcoin and will allow any similar service to work, but downloading a wallet to use a coordinator is something that no one looking for privacy would do.
I don't think ginger wallet is the backdoor, but they are tricked into thinking that adding obscure censorship will someone give them green pass from government.
We should all learn by now that working with the devil is never going to end up good.
What would happen in this case for censored UTXO? Would they just give back, or would they just confiscate the funds from you?
I think it would be the same as with Wasabi wallet, you would be able to perform coinjoin.
They can't seize coins from anyone.
Or is the coordinator which ginger uses closed source?
I don't think so.