Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Cryptocurrency Ecosystem => Bitcoin Forum => Topic started by: dkbit98 on July 10, 2024, 05:42:58 PM
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Anyone interested of finding more information about different Bitcoin Layers now there is a website bitcoinlayers.org
There you can find Risk Snapshot for each network, Type, Status, Unit of Account and BTC amount locked.
Lightning network has most bitcoins locked 5122 and Liquid Network is in second place with 3873 BTC.
https://www.bitcoinlayers.org/
Another good reasource for other Bitcoin Layers is Jameson Lopp website.
This inlcudes sidechains, drivechains, statechains, spacechains, spiderchains, and others:
https://www.lopp.net/bitcoin-information/other-layers.html
Here is one article that is criticizing most of Bitcoin Layers as marketing scams:
https://blockspace.media/insight/most-bitcoin-layer-2s-are-marketing-scams/
(https://i.ibb.co/GWM97Pg/img7c72dba4323a3d80e7077bfe82bf4c6e.jpg)
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Thanks for providing this information, I was not aware of that many layers although I did hear about liquid a few weeks ago. I learned how beneficial it is for big investors and whales as it has lesser traffic and a faster tx feature. Overall I knew about BOB as I joined there points system by holding ETH. Later they became expensive so I left. Never heard about Rootstock (3rd place) will learn about it as well.
Plus I also was not aware of these chains i.e. side chain, drive chain, etc. Never heard about them before I think I did not learned anything all these years or its just these chains are new in the market. Babylon is not present in the first link why is that?
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Babylon is not present in the first link why is that?
I don't know what the heck that is and I don't care about it.
Anything that is not listed on Bitcoinlayers should be found on JamesonLopp website.
Bitcoinlayers.org is not my website, I didn't create it, and I don't have any connection with owners, so you better ask them that question if you want.
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Most of the layers you mentioned are not big enough for people to built into websites, wallets and so on.
But it's a bit of a paradox since it's the speed at which people create these things that shows if the technology is going to be big or small.
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I don't know what the heck that is and I don't care about it.
Anything that is not listed on Bitcoinlayers should be found on JamesonLopp website.
Bitcoinlayers.org is not my website, I didn't create it, and I don't have any connection with owners, so you better ask them that question if you want.
Chill dude, I know its not your sites, I guess I gave the wrong vibe here. I just wanna share that babylon is not here but I was wrong as babylon is not a layer at least for now.
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Thanks for the information.
From the first website you shared I found one project that used to have a testnet event but now it's Mainnet but there is no certainty of the token launch (Bsquared Network) and now there are no more updates until now.
On the third website I found a project that had launched a testnet event and successfully attracted the attention of the community with NFT rewards for users who completed the task (Babylon Chain) the testnet program is still ongoing today.
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Babylon is not present in the first link why is that?
I don't know what the heck that is and I don't care about it.
Anything that is not listed on Bitcoinlayers should be found on JamesonLopp website.
Bitcoinlayers.org is not my website, I didn't create it, and I don't have any connection with owners, so you better ask them that question if you want.
I am not aware of some of this layers. Besides, if the bitcoin blockchain were to be very much scalable, there'll be no need for these layers.
Atimes I am skeptical about these layers as much as I am about the forks of BTC. There are still bitcoiners who do not believe that folks of bitcoin are altcoins.
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Most of the layers you mentioned are not big enough for people to built into websites, wallets and so on.
I never heard for most of them before I found BitcoinLayers website.
I guess everyone knows about Lightning Network but small number of Bitcoin used for LN after so many years is showing how much this it (NOT) adopted at all by bitcoin users.
Than there is also the problem of complexity, if you have simplicity that usually means you sacrificed something.
One thing I would be interested of using in second Layer that gives full privacy to Bitcoin while keeping everything decentralized.
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There are more Bitcoin L2 than i expect. But it's funny that many L2 deemed to have more risk than Rootstock/RSK which has been around for many years.
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I did not know that the ICP internet computer is a bitcoin layer.
The lack of depency of sidechains and connection to the mainnet makes their classification within bitcoin layers misleading.
some good sidechains such as spiderchain, Softchain, and Drivechain are not included.
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There are more Bitcoin L2 than i expect. But it's funny that many L2 deemed to have more risk than Rootstock/RSK which has been around for many years.
Most risks are coming from the fact that most of the bridges are custodial and they are centralized.
Drivechains would solve most of the problems, and weak link than would be just miners.
The lack of depency of sidechains and connection to the mainnet makes their classification within bitcoin layers misleading.
some good sidechains such as spiderchain, Softchain, and Drivechain are not included.
Because they are not actually sidechains, and BitcoinLayers website is only tracking active projects that are already working.
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There are more Bitcoin L2 than i expect. But it's funny that many L2 deemed to have more risk than Rootstock/RSK which has been around for many years.
Maybe because they are not fully proven about the projects they develop if like bebyLon menag has been proven after they held an event and Babylon Chain has also received $70M led by paragdigm and bebyLon has also established many partnerships with various well-known projects.
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There are more Bitcoin L2 than i expect. But it's funny that many L2 deemed to have more risk than Rootstock/RSK which has been around for many years.
Most risks are coming from the fact that most of the bridges are custodial and they are centralized.
Drivechains would solve most of the problems, and weak link than would be just miners.
But with no sign BIP 301 and 301 added to mainnet, it'll remain a possibility.
There are more Bitcoin L2 than i expect. But it's funny that many L2 deemed to have more risk than Rootstock/RSK which has been around for many years.
Maybe because they are not fully proven about the projects they develop if like bebyLon menag has been proven after they held an event and Babylon Chain has also received $70M led by paragdigm and bebyLon has also established many partnerships with various well-known projects.
But looking at their analysis approach[1], it's hard to imagine risk level of L2 can be improved without changing how that L2 works. It doesn't state anything about funding or popularity either.
[1] https://bitcoin-layers.gitbook.io/bitcoin-layers/approach-to-analyzing-risk (https://bitcoin-layers.gitbook.io/bitcoin-layers/approach-to-analyzing-risk)
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There are more Bitcoin L2 than i expect. But it's funny that many L2 deemed to have more risk than Rootstock/RSK which has been around for many years.
Maybe because they are not fully proven about the projects they develop if like bebyLon menag has been proven after they held an event and Babylon Chain has also received $70M led by paragdigm and bebyLon has also established many partnerships with various well-known projects.
But looking at their analysis approach[1], it's hard to imagine risk level of L2 can be improved without changing how that L2 works. It doesn't state anything about funding or popularity either.
[1] https://bitcoin-layers.gitbook.io/bitcoin-layers/approach-to-analyzing-risk (https://bitcoin-layers.gitbook.io/bitcoin-layers/approach-to-analyzing-risk)
I don't know much about the bitcoin layer 2 project but I have tested in the bitcoin layer 2 project and this project is included in the table on the website above.
The bitcoin layer 2 project that I have tried from the BSquared project, in my opinion this project is not categorized as layer 2 bitcoin for the same reason as mentioned by blockspace media that BSquared is only a Bitcoin multisig project and it is proven that no investors are interested in this project.
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But with no sign BIP 301 and 301 added to mainnet, it'll remain a possibility.
There is actually a growing support for BIP300 and BIP301 to be implemented, but you won't see Saylor and his bitcoin maxi buddies supporting it.
Jameson Lopp and other bitcoin OG's have publicly said that sidechains are a good solution and they are not a threat for the Bitcoin blockchain.
I think next year will be a very good year for sidechains.
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I did not know that the ICP internet computer is a bitcoin layer.
The lack of depency of sidechains and connection to the mainnet makes their classification within bitcoin layers misleading.
some good sidechains such as spiderchain, Softchain, and Drivechain are not included.
I was going to say exactly the same
I remember this coin in coinmarketcap.com a few years ago. It is strange that it is a sidechain with its own token.
I noticed that it also allows the creation of runes and ordinals. Why we don't see those there as well? I don't get seeing everything just in mainnet..
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Thanks, buddy for the references, L2s on BTC are good
Hmm, there are many missing layers, TBH i was curious to find some new layers but these are just some old ones, it's good that there's a section of test-net chains as well. At the same time, I'm curious about STX as this is one of the old ones and with L2's trend in Bitcoin, the most potential still lies between these old ones with some exceptions.
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Thanks, buddy for the references, L2s on BTC are good
Hmm, there are many missing layers, TBH i was curious to find some new layers but these are just some old ones, it's good that there's a section of test-net chains as well. At the same time, I'm curious about STX as this is one of the old ones and with L2's trend in Bitcoin, the most potential still lies between these old ones with some exceptions.
STX is indeed among the top 5 Bitcoin Layer 2 Layers, and the former is still occupied by the Lightning Network.
Although many Bitcoin L2 developers are not continuing their development, it is still going on and there are several updates being made.
The Lightning Network can be a solution for fast and cheap payments on the Bitcoin network, but many also don't like the Lightning Network.
Hope to continue to develop Bitcoin Layer 2 which has good potential for the future, as this will provide a good option in the Bitcoin network.
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It is interesting that if you switch to testnet or all settings on BitcoinLayers website you will get much more sidechain projects, so there is nothing missing.
There are several projects that are under review so there is no risk rating for them yet.
One that is most interesting to me is Mercury Layer that is improving bitcon privacy, this project previously existed as Mercury wallet, but it's now updated.
https://www.bitcoinlayers.org/layers/mercurylayer
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This is very good information to share. I'm just learning that Bsquared network's token will be BSQ instead of B2. I've been wondering what it could be for a long time.
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I saw the news today that one of the pioneers in Bitcoin space Jeff Garzik is working on releasing new Layer2 Hemi Network that works both for Bitcoin and Ethereum.
Hemi Network testnet has gone live today and it is using Proof-of-Proof" consensus with POP miner.
They are wrapping Ethereum Virtual Machine around a BTC node so it is easier to bulit compatible applciations that work for bitcoin and ethereum.
https://hemi.xyz/
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I saw the news today that one of the pioneers in Bitcoin space Jeff Garzik is working on releasing new Layer2 Hemi Network that works both for Bitcoin and Ethereum.
Hemi Network testnet has gone live today and it is using Proof-of-Proof" consensus with POP miner.
They are wrapping Ethereum Virtual Machine around a BTC node so it is easier to bulit compatible applciations that work for bitcoin and ethereum.
https://hemi.xyz/
I see that not many people know about this project, I see on Twitter only a few people who participate in discussing this project, maybe it takes time and introduction, if there is a testnet program that provides incentive prizes for communities or users in the testnet program, maybe this project will develop faster.
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In another post Galaxy reports is claiming that most Bitcoin layer 2 solutions won't survive.
Bitcoin rollups will require millions of dollars per year just to keep their heads above water thanks to transaction fees.
They claim that nobody will use Bitcoin rollups if they are 100 times more expensive than on other chains.
https://decrypt.co/242994/most-bitcoin-layer-2-networks-wont-survive-galaxy-research
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In another post Galaxy reports is claiming that most Bitcoin layer 2 solutions won't survive.
Bitcoin rollups will require millions of dollars per year just to keep their heads above water thanks to transaction fees.
They claim that nobody will use Bitcoin rollups if they are 100 times more expensive than on other chains.
https://decrypt.co/242994/most-bitcoin-layer-2-networks-wont-survive-galaxy-research
Their report makes sense. But in practice, many Bitcoin L2 are lying about it's decentralization or dependency towards Bitcoin network where they don't need to post zero-knowledge data. Although for real L2 which use rollup scheme, i guess they need to post zero-knowledge data less frequently or find way to reduce size of the data itself.
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Their report makes sense. But in practice, many Bitcoin L2 are lying about it's decentralization or dependency towards Bitcoin network where they don't need to post zero-knowledge data. Although for real L2 which use rollup scheme, i guess they need to post zero-knowledge data less frequently or find way to reduce size of the data itself.
Yeah there are some interesting development with zero-knowledge compression on Bitcoin, and I think we could see massive improvements in privacy soon if that moves in right direction.
I am hoping in having some real decentralized way to have totally private transaction with bitcoin using zero-knowledge technology.
I don't know if anyone heard but there are big changes with Bitgo W-BTC wrapped bitcoin on ethereum, and everyone should stop using that multi-jurisdictional custody crap asap!
https://blog.bitgo.com/bitgo-to-move-wbtc-to-multi-jurisdictional-custody-to-accelerate-global-expansion-plan-2ea0623fa2c8
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I was going to say exactly the same
I remember this coin in coinmarketcap.com a few years ago. It is strange that it is a sidechain with its own token.
I noticed that it also allows the creation of runes and ordinals. Why we don't see those there as well? I don't get seeing everything just in mainnet..
Internet Computer is a Layer-1 blockchain but also supports smart contracts that process transaction data like a Layer-2 for Bitcoin, providing users with a faster and cheaper environment while still leveraging the security of the Bitcoin Layer-1 network. I think this will be a future trend as many Layer-1 want to receive a portion of the Bitcoin cash flow by becoming Bitcoin Layer-2.
Among the mentioned projects, I'm only interested in Stacks because its STX token has made an impressive recovery from $0.2 to $3.8 thanks to the Layer-2 trend. I don't have a need to use Layer-2 to move or profit from BTC, but I will follow the price fluctuations of their native tokens.
- Understanding ICP for Bitcoin developers (https://internetcomputer.org/docs/current/developer-docs/multi-chain/bitcoin/using-btc/btc-comparison#:~:text=Bitcoin%20developers%20who%20are%20looking,unique%20set%20of%20developer%20tools)
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BitMex released a new blog page for Bitcoin Layer 2s and The CoreDAO Model.
This is interesting to know after Coinbase decided to release cbBTC token, and after controversy with BitGo and wrapped Bitcoin.
I would stay away from ALL present and future wrapped bitcoin tokens.
https://blog.bitmex.com/bitcoin-layer-2s-coredao-model/
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Interested update made on BitcoinLayers website, they just left two projects in section for Bitcoin layers, and they moved all other projects to different page for wrappers.
This are categorzed as sidesystems and they are not directly bitcoin layers, they explained everything in their latest blog post:
https://www.lxresearch.co/starting-to-define-layers-a-year-later/
You can find list of bitcoin wrappers on this this page now:
https://www.bitcoinlayers.org/?view=wrappers