Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Crypto Discussion Forum => Forum related => Forum Court => Topic started by: examplens on August 29, 2024, 12:35:50 PM
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This is my request to review the negative karma points I received in the last
few two days.
It lasted a bit longer, even when I was less active on the forum, but it has become quite frequent lately, especially after several dramas with certain users. It probably helped that I exposed some of them as spammers.
I'm pretty sure it comes from a childishly persistent user, because -karma repeats itself every ~12 hours. Immediately after I receive the notification, by checking the current online users, one member is always active at that moment. I am quite sure who it is, but I demand that the administration check it to confirm.
What is the procedure, how many ALTT tokens are needed to burn for this check the last 4x -karma in the last 2 days?
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From my side, it's fine if everything comes from several different users (not multi-account), but it's quite obvious that someone has set himself a scheduled task. 8 AM and next 8 PM...
:D
(https://talkimg.com/images/2024/08/29/9RfrZ.png)
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There was a thread where an admin offered something, but I forgot where it was and the exact system for reviewing your karma logs. It seems I know who the user is. It happened to me in the past with another user, but I am not sure. I did not ask the admin to review my karma logs. Unfortunately, I am unable to find that thread. I guess the topic title was Eye of Sauron or something like that. I hope the admin will take a look at this topic and suggest what should be your next task to know who was that user.
Edit: Here it is https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=316161.0
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Examplens, your situation shows how important it is to have open karma log and history of every user.
Nobody should be able to hide anything in the forum.
If this forum is to grow, I think it original design must be changed.
Ofc the user is abusing the system. We got 2 erros here: the user and the system.
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Examplens, your situation shows how important it is to have open karma log and history of every user.
I demand the same also expressed about it multiple times but it's upto the admin to make changes.
For this particular scenario I suggest you to send PM as well to the admin to let him know if he is not aware of this thread cause he almost responds to every PM and BTW I don't think this needs any tokens to burn cause this is simply abuse by someone who's hurt or exposed which isn't the right way of using the system as far as I read the rules.
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I don't think this needs any tokens to burn cause this is simply abuse by someone who's hurt or exposed which isn't the right way of using the system as far as I read the rules.
That's right. If admin will find the karma abuse, the abuser will get penalties, all incorrectly given karma will be restored and the abuser will highly likely deprived of right of giving karma to others. Let's wait for the result of admin's investigation.
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I don't think this needs any tokens to burn cause this is simply abuse by someone who's hurt or exposed which isn't the right way of using the system as far as I read the rules.
That's right. If admin will find the karma abuse, the abuser will get penalties, all incorrectly given karma will be restored and the abuser will highly likely deprived of right of giving karma to others. Let's wait for the result of admin's investigation.
I think that openkarma history would just make this Job easier.
Admin shouldn't be investigating. The community can do that, maybe with mods. Admin should handle more important stuff.
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It is annoying to all of us when an active member receives negative karma from some abusive members. I hope the admin will take care of this situation.
It is clear to all of us that the reason for examplens receiving negative karma is his positive role in chasing some spam in the forum, so it is expected that he would receive this negative reaction from these abusive members, so I add my voice to examplens' voice in the need to review the negative karma points he received and punish the abusive members.
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It is annoying to all of us when an active member receives negative karma from some abusive members. I hope the admin will take care of this situation.
~snip~
Unfortunately, we are all exposed to those who abuse karma, but most people will hardly notice that someone is doing it to them if they do not use a Telegram bot, as is the case with @examplens. I also suspected that someone was doing this to me, but I did not ask for a public investigation.
Unfortunately, I don't see that anything will change in this regard, everyone will have to fight for themselves in this way or simply get more positive than negative karma.
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Karma abuses will be resolved by the administrator and lost karma points will be returned to their owner.
Making karma logs public is not the solution, it would actually be a problem. I know it's something we've said many times, but having this information only accessible to the administrator is best for the community. We all know what would happen if the logs were public.
Fortunately, there are not hundreds of cases of karma abuse, so it is not a problem for the administrator to resolve this issue and take necessary action.
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Making karma logs public is not the solution, it would actually be a problem. I know it's something we've said many times, but having this information only accessible to the administrator is best for the community. We all know what would happen if the logs were public.
Fortunately, there are not hundreds of cases of karma abuse, so it is not a problem for the administrator to resolve this issue and take necessary action.
I know that then people will start throwing mud. But I saw the admin agree on chat that it is possible to publicise which post got the negative karma. But priority-wise, the admin gives it 7 out of 10. He probably has some other important things to do at this moment. If moderators can check the karma abuse, it will reduce the admin's job. But I do not deny that there are not hundreds of cases. If the admin thinks he could give time and check these cases when necessary, it is up to them.
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I know that then people will start throwing mud. But I saw the admin agree on chat that it is possible to publicise which post got the negative karma. But priority-wise, the admin gives it 7 out of 10. He probably has some other important things to do at this moment. If moderators can check the karma abuse, it will reduce the admin's job. But I do not deny that there are not hundreds of cases. If the admin thinks he could give time and check these cases when necessary, it is up to them.
True, I know the admin said he was working on a Karma counter that would appear on each post to see which topics/posts were receiving the most attention from the community, but that counter would only reveal the amount of positive and negative Karma, but not the name of the users who interact.
Personally I have no problem if that job falls to the moderators, but as you know it is something that has never been done, so as you say it is the administrator who must make the decision.
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Karma abuses will be resolved by the administrator and lost karma points will be returned to their owner.
Making karma logs public is not the solution, it would actually be a problem. I know it's something we've said many times, but having this information only accessible to the administrator is best for the community. We all know what would happen if the logs were public.
Fortunately, there are not hundreds of cases of karma abuse, so it is not a problem for the administrator to resolve this issue and take necessary action.
I'm not sure if the admin even noticed this request. I did not receive instructions on whether a review was done and whether my suspicions of karma abuse were justified.
Of course, the whole thing continued, in the meantime, I got two more times - karma, and again it coincides with the activity of the same user.
There are not a hundred requests, but here is one request that takes a long time to resolve, so it could be concluded that the current system is ineffective.
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for karma linked to post, please forget it for now, i might work on it later. and if so it's not a guarantee that it will go live, because ... bugs and errors.
any slight error can crash the system and have done so in the past, that's why i avoid messing too much.
concerning karma logs, as a first step, a copy of these logs (with a delay of one week) will be available for top management.
president, vice president , as well as ex presidents.
later on, if we see there is a need, it will be also available to selected few mods (correction mods)
opening karma logs is not a solution, because it would lead to petty retaliation.
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Karma abuses will be resolved by the administrator and lost karma points will be returned to their owner.
Making karma logs public is not the solution, it would actually be a problem. I know it's something we've said many times, but having this information only accessible to the administrator is best for the community. We all know what would happen if the logs were public.
Fortunately, there are not hundreds of cases of karma abuse, so it is not a problem for the administrator to resolve this issue and take necessary action.
I'm not sure if the admin even noticed this request. I did not receive instructions on whether a review was done and whether my suspicions of karma abuse were justified.
Of course, the whole thing continued, in the meantime, I got two more times - karma, and again it coincides with the activity of the same user.
There are not a hundred requests, but here is one request that takes a long time to resolve, so it could be concluded that the current system is ineffective.
in your case the abuser was punished and can no longer issue karma, and i'll add +10 karma
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concerning karma logs, as a first step, a copy of these logs (with a delay of one week) will be available for top management.
president, vice president , as well as ex presidents.
later on, if we see there is a need, it will be also available to selected few admins.
Opening the karma log for moderators could certainly be a useful thing if only to make moderation easier. (At least as far as I've seen, active moderators do their job pretty well)
Otherwise, is the karma log permanent or is it cleaned periodically?
in your case the abuser was punished and can no longer issue karma, and i'll add +10 karma
It's good to know that things like this are being resolved.
I will leave the topic unlocked for a little while longer if the other side has something to say about the whole case.
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concerning karma logs, as a first step, a copy of these logs (with a delay of one week) will be available for top management.
president, vice president , as well as ex presidents.
later on, if we see there is a need, it will be also available to selected few admins.
Happy to keep an eye on these and can help with future requests if needed :)
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This is my request to review the negative karma points I received in the last few two days.
It lasted a bit longer, even when I was less active on the forum, but it has become quite frequent lately, especially after several dramas with certain users. It probably helped that I exposed some of them as spammers.
I'm pretty sure it comes from a childishly persistent user, because -karma repeats itself every ~12 hours. Immediately after I receive the notification, by checking the current online users, one member is always active at that moment. I am quite sure who it is, but I demand that the administration check it to confirm.
What is the procedure, how many ALTT tokens are needed to burn for this check the last 4x -karma in the last 2 days?
here is a positive karma as I appreciate your work.
If every poster on this thread gave you a positive karma your negative guy would have ended up helping you.
we could use this thread to be a negative karma cancel thread .
🧵
I see ten responsible members here . that would be ten plus karmas which would mean the negative person ended up helping the person he hates.
If admin was to say I looked at the op of a karma post and see a pattern of abuse we can give the victim karma.
the admin can freeze the abuser.
so this pretty much would end abuse.
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It's good to know that things like this are being resolved.
I will leave the topic unlocked for a little while longer if the other side has something to say about the whole case.
I guess most of us know what that was, and I believe he will not write a word here because he is proven guilty and punished by the admin. Since only the admin knows his name, we don't want to point fingers towards someone even if it is too obvious, but unfortunately, we are not a hundred per cent sure.
If any other member plans to do something like that because of a heated argument, they should learn from this case and forget their plan. They should know that the logs are available to the admin, who checks them when necessary.
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for karma linked to post, please forget it for now, i might work on it later. and if so it's not a guarantee that it will go live, because ... bugs and errors.
any slight error can crash the system and have done so in the past, that's why i avoid messing too much.
concerning karma logs, as a first step, a copy of these logs (with a delay of one week) will be available for top management.
president, vice president , as well as ex presidents.
later on, if we see there is a need, it will be also available to selected few admins.
opening karma logs is not a solution, because it would lead to petty retaliation.
Thank you for the update and for allowing us to see the logs, it will be interesting when looking for possible patterns and being able to track the forum.
As all users have been able to verify, the administrator has solved the problem without users having had any discussions or tensions. I still think this is the way of Karma.
And since this has been a lesson for users who plan to "attack" others through Karma, @examplens +2 from me.
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Thank you for the update and for allowing us to see the logs, it will be interesting when looking for possible patterns and being able to track the forum.
You should thank the karma abuser, he provoked this change. This is already the second change or new forum rule on the forum for which he is responsible ;)
I guess most of us know what that was, and I believe he will not write a word here because he is proven guilty and punished by the admin. Since only the admin knows his name, we don't want to point fingers towards someone even if it is too obvious, but unfortunately, we are not a hundred per cent sure.
I'm pretty sure I know who it is, but I didn't want to point the finger at anyone without concrete evidence. He certainly accused me of "discriminating against his working conditions" and "all rights from the employment relationship"
we could use this thread to be a negative karma cancel thread .
The thread could be a good guide for all those who want to abuse karma.
If every poster on this thread gave you a positive karma your negative guy would have ended up helping you.
I'm fine with the way everything was handled.
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I'm pretty sure I know who it is, but I didn't want to point the finger at anyone without concrete evidence. He certainly accused me of "discriminating against his working conditions" and "all rights from the employment relationship"
I posted on chat on the same day you created this thread that another D***la rule was coming up, which ended up being true. Sometimes, people cannot understand what they should do and what they should not, but they attack when questioned for their behaviour.
I am surprised that the admin was too patient in handling that guy. This is not the first thing he did, which is frowned upon. Even the admin talked to him multiple times and warned him not to continue, but sometimes people want to prove themselves. I am happy to see the case closed nicely, as expected.
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~snip~
You should thank the karma abuser, he provoked this change. This is already the second change or new forum rule on the forum for which he is responsible ;)
Well, you're partly right, since that user was the one who took the first step regarding all of this for things to end up like this, but keep in mind that the final decision to allow moderators to see Karma logs was made by administrator. The important thing is that all this ended well and that other users will think twice before making certain decisions.
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Thank you for the update and for allowing us to see the logs, it will be interesting when looking for possible patterns and being able to track the forum.
You should thank the karma abuser, he provoked this change. This is already the second change or new forum rule on the forum for which he is responsible ;)
To be fair, Presidents have previously had access to karma logs, but it was never regular and only when requested or dumped upon, so wouldn't call it a new rule per say. But having a weekly or monthly log is certainly an improvement.
Per your other point above, I otherwise think certainly best to keep away from mods, no offence to any of them, only we've had bad apples before (N***man) and it would definitely be very easy to abuse such data (I'm thinking mainly retaliation against -k). Global mods would also be fine as a trusted group who have all been around for time so could be posted into that section otherwise. Probably useful also for some of the bigger local language GMs.
I am surprised that the admin was too patient in handling that guy. This is not the first thing he did, which is frowned upon. Even the admin talked to him multiple times and warned him not to continue, but sometimes people want to prove themselves. I am happy to see the case closed nicely, as expected.
If you haven't noticed yet, admin is a complete soft touch. It took years before he agreed to even allow global mods to block users from posting. This is certainly not a bad thing even if it has been frustrating in the past. There are plenty of users who change their behaviour with some encouragement, even if most don't. I've always admired his efforts to give users an out, even when it has been a waste of time, or completely backfired. (I'm thinking N****man yet again, he had way too many chances and abused them all).
Freemind rules with an iron fist by comparison (mod in joke). On this note, our President should probably have access to 3 strikes, plaga penalty, and spammer groups by now wouldn't you say admin? VP and the rest of us have it, and I think he can be trusted by now ;)
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After all, advice to everyone - considering how @examplens has established that someone is systematically targeting him with negative karma, the only way to be sure that someone is not doing the same to you is to start using a Telegram bot that will notify you every time you get +/karma . This is the only way you can have proof and ask for your karma log to be reviewed.
AltcoinsTalks Telegram Notifier (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=315728.0)
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After all, advice to everyone - considering how @examplens has established that someone is systematically targeting him with negative karma, the only way to be sure that someone is not doing the same to you is to start using a Telegram bot that will notify you every time you get +/karma . This is the only way you can have proof and ask for your karma log to be reviewed.
AltcoinsTalks Telegram Notifier (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=315728.0)
It's a good suggestion +1, was looking for that link after seeing screenshots so thanks for sharing (I'm still catching up here).
It's otherwise not easy to identify karma abuse in the logs unless you are looking for it, ie checking a particular users usage of karma, specifically towards another.
In the past users have just noticed that they were dropping karma, which had been the case for decentralized team members a number of times (as obvious retaliation). It's basically the reason karma revoking was created. The only issue is you might not notice if you get as much + as you do -, and thus it might just seem like you're not receiving any I guess. As examplens has done, and has always been the case in the past, it's best to report these things and presidents can check it over.
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It's a good suggestion +1, was looking for that link after seeing screenshots so thanks for sharing (I'm still catching up here).
You're welcome, it's a good tool that can be of great help in some situations - because having doubts is one thing, and having proof is something completely different.
It's otherwise not easy to identify karma abuse in the logs unless you are looking for it, ie checking a particular users usage of karma, specifically towards another.
In the past users have just noticed that they were dropping karma, which had been the case for decentralized team members a number of times (as obvious retaliation). It's basically the reason karma revoking was created. The only issue is you might not notice if you get as much + as you do -, and thus it might just seem like you're not receiving any I guess. As examplens has done, and has always been the case in the past, it's best to report these things and presidents can check it over.
If someone targets you on purpose and is just a little intelligent, then they will do it in a way that they will send negative karmas when they find that you are not online. If, for example, I have 180 karmas for days (and this is the case), it is possible that every day when someone notices that I got +karma, they cancel it with -karma, and I can't possibly know that unless I check the forum 24 hours a day.
Let's hope that there will be fewer cases like this, and there will be fewer if everyone is a little more careful.
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Freemind rules with an iron fist by comparison (mod in joke). On this note, our President should probably have access to 3 strikes, plaga penalty, and spammer groups by now wouldn't you say admin? VP and the rest of us have it, and I think he can be trusted by now ;)
yeah it seams i have forgotten to add him, rectified
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It's otherwise not easy to identify karma abuse in the logs unless you are looking for it, ie checking a particular users usage of karma, specifically towards another.
In the past users have just noticed that they were dropping karma, which had been the case for decentralized team members a number of times (as obvious retaliation). It's basically the reason karma revoking was created. The only issue is you might not notice if you get as much + as you do -, and thus it might just seem like you're not receiving any I guess. As examplens has done, and has always been the case in the past, it's best to report these things and presidents can check it over.
If someone targets you on purpose and is just a little intelligent, then they will do it in a way that they will send negative karmas when they find that you are not online. If, for example, I have 180 karmas for days (and this is the case), it is possible that every day when someone notices that I got +karma, they cancel it with -karma, and I can't possibly know that unless I check the forum 24 hours a day.
At the bottom of the home page of the forum, the last active users are listed. As I received -karma notifications a minimum of once every day, it was very easy to determine which user was always active during that period.
(https://talkimg.com/images/2024/09/01/9jTkq.png)
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Thank you for the update and for allowing us to see the logs, it will be interesting when looking for possible patterns and being able to track the forum.
You should thank the karma abuser, he provoked this change. This is already the second change or new forum rule on the forum for which he is responsible ;)
I guess most of us know what that was, and I believe he will not write a word here because he is proven guilty and punished by the admin. Since only the admin knows his name, we don't want to point fingers towards someone even if it is too obvious, but unfortunately, we are not a hundred per cent sure.
I'm pretty sure I know who it is, but I didn't want to point the finger at anyone without concrete evidence. He certainly accused me of "discriminating against his working conditions" and "all rights from the employment relationship"
we could use this thread to be a negative karma cancel thread .
The thread could be a good guide for all those who want to abuse karma.
If every poster on this thread gave you a positive karma your negative guy would have ended up helping you.
I'm fine with the way everything was handled.
I gave you more karma today as the time of 12 hours passed.
Fo me I like the way this thread approached the problem.
Admin also did well hoping that this becomes a sticky so that angry people or simple trolls do not abuse karma since it is pointless to do it if it is handled the way of this thread.
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To be sincere, there are times the way we approached issues also made those guys to give us -Karma. Sometimes we talk authoritatively and those are also humans. And in this case we can't judge the it from any angle because the reason why the user gave examplens the -Karma was not known because the Karma log is not visible. And I believed the admin which is the eyes of the gods, Omniscient and Omnipresent has given his verdict because he sees everything and how it happens. But we should also not be harsh to one another. We can correct ourselves politely.
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To be sincere, there are times the way we approached issues also made those guys to give us -Karma. Sometimes we talk authoritatively and those are also humans. And in this case we can't judge the it from any angle because the reason why the user gave examplens the -Karma was not known because the Karma log is not visible. And I believed the admin which is the eyes of the gods, Omniscient and Omnipresent has given his verdict because he sees everything and how it happens. But we should also not be harsh to one another. We can correct ourselves politely.
Yeah giving repetitive -karma is just a bad idea.👎 I can see giving someone one neg but setting up a bot do do it every 12 hours is simply poor form.
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~snip~
Yeah giving repetitive -karma is just a bad idea.👎 I can see giving someone one neg but setting up a bot do do it every 12 hours is simply poor form.
I have to correct you, you can give +/- karma to an individual user every 10 hours and that is actually a good restriction considering that it prevents those who abuse karma from doing even more damage before they are caught. Some users have the opposite opinion about it, but considering that the karma system is anonymous, I think it is a necessary security mechanism.
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~snip~
Yeah giving repetitive -karma is just a bad idea.👎 I can see giving someone one neg but setting up a bot do do it every 12 hours is simply poor form.
I have to correct you, you can give +/- karma to an individual user every 10 hours and that is actually a good restriction considering that it prevents those who abuse karma from doing even more damage before they are caught. Some users have the opposite opinion about it, but considering that the karma system is anonymous, I think it is a necessary security mechanism.
I think we are cross communicating on this.
I like that giving - karma or + karma is time limited. If the limit is 10 hours or 12 hours both times for a limit seem okay.
I think making a bot to give a neg - karma over and over and over is a bad idea.
The op got a repeat -karma every 12 hours on the dot which was likely done by a bot. Set to a time that got past the 10 or 12 hour time limit set by admins.
edit : you are correct that the time is 10 hours.
I think the -karma bot was set to 12 hours which got around the time limit.
I think no one should do that as it is a bad idea.
If you want to give a neg give just 1 and get over it.
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If you want to give a neg give just 1 and get over it.
☝️ This is basically the point.
It's also worth being aware that if you found a post low-quality, bad taste, etc, then it's likely someone else did also. So when giving someone negative karma, you have to also bear in mind that users might be doing this also, and can easily lead to a pile one. Going back to give -karma to the same user is otherwise just bad form and should be strongly discouraged. Granted it's happened before when users have been targeted with -k, especially by decentralised team, when certain punishments were not considered harsh enough for certain users, but it was never a solution to the problem either. This is part of the reason we have judges and presidents instead or of admin discretion... or at least that's part of the idea.
Anyway, this issue has since been resolved so recommending a Judge locks this thread now. For any new issues a new court case should be opened.