Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Cryptocurrency Ecosystem => Crypto currency Mining => Topic started by: bayu7adi on October 21, 2024, 05:33:10 AM
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We all know that PoW and PoS are the most important aspects of mining in cryptocurrency, but both have their own problems...
PoW has energy issues which of course are a concern for the future of the world
While PoS has security issues, which of course raises concerns for investors because they always want to make sure their funds are safe.
Which one is more worthy of being maintained in this cryptocurrency space?
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Which one is more worthy of being maintained in this cryptocurrency space?
Both are worthy, since each of them have different trade-off and usage. PoW for those who prefer decentralization or fear exchange may use customer's coin to manipulate the network[1]. PoS for those who want some passive income by staking or have concern about big mining pool/farm.
[1] https://cryptoslate.com/big-exchanges-conduct-a-hostile-takeover-of-steem-blockchain-following-tron-acquisition/ (https://cryptoslate.com/big-exchanges-conduct-a-hostile-takeover-of-steem-blockchain-following-tron-acquisition/)
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We all know that PoW and PoS are the most important aspects of mining in cryptocurrency, but both have their own problems...
PoW has energy issues which of course are a concern for the future of the world
While PoS has security issues, which of course raises concerns for investors because they always want to make sure their funds are safe.
Which one is more worthy of being maintained in this cryptocurrency space?
Both of them are quite ok though I personally prefer Proof of work mechanism since I'm more kind of familiar with the bitcoin ecosystem. Anyways, as for the aspect of energy required for mining like proof of work in the case of bitcoin, I really don't think it endangers our ecosystem. I've seen a couple of discussions a long time ago where people argued that bitcoin is the cause of environmental pollution because of energy required for mining.
The fact is I really don't believe that because mining or no mining, there would still be some energy sources that contribute to pollution as well as those that don't. Besides the world is gradually taking a turn to try eliminating energy sources like petroleum and coal that pollute the environment.
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The fact is I really don't believe that because mining or no mining, there would still be some energy sources that contribute to pollution as well as those that don't. Besides the world is gradually taking a turn to try eliminating energy sources like petroleum and coal that pollute the environment.
it is indeed inevitable, because they call it an economy, whereas in my opinion, it is more inclined to exchange the earth for money.. the PoW system does require large computing power and resources, so that makes us more worried in the long term, right?
the thing to fear is if cryptocurrency mining activities are no longer possible to do, isn't that a nightmare?
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the PoW system does require large computing power and resources, so that makes us more worried in the long term, right?
the thing to fear is if cryptocurrency mining activities are no longer possible to do, isn't that a nightmare?
I think that's the trade-off to make the network secure. If it's cheap then someone can attack the network easily. I believe we will see more alternative energy sources in the future, so mining will probably move to that sooner than later. The market will eventually adjust itself, if mining is too expensive some miners will stop, and vice versa. We'll probably see more discussion around PoW when the Bitcoin subsidy becomes too small to incentivize miners, but that's still years away. I don't think it will go away because some people prefer decentralization even if it means slower transaction etc. CMIIW.
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We all know that PoW and PoS are the most important aspects of mining in cryptocurrency, but both have their own problems...
PoW has energy issues which of course are a concern for the future of the world
While PoS has security issues, which of course raises concerns for investors because they always want to make sure their funds are safe.
Which one is more worthy of being maintained in this cryptocurrency space?
PoS based cryptos doesn't fall under the category of mining because it uses the staking to validate the transactions and get rewards based on the staked coins. So it means less decentralization in the network and it's easy to manipulate the network by few big players while PoW can be manipulated but it's like they have to spend few hundred dollars for every 10 minute to give the pause but nothing more damage can be done. So PoW is a lot better model that helps the coins to have highest possible nature of decentralization.
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--snip--
We'll probably see more discussion around PoW when the Bitcoin subsidy becomes too small to incentivize miners, but that's still years away. I don't think it will go away because some people prefer decentralization even if it means slower transaction etc. CMIIW.
By then, Bitcoiner will be forced to face either high on-chain TX fee or higher block size to let some miners continue to mine Bitcoin profitably.
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Both have advantages and disadvantages and these advantages and disadvantages can be the reason why people prefer one over the other, making both durable. For example, a high level of security will make people choose PoW, but the power and equipment needed are the reasons why some people will also choose PoS because it does not require much energy and equipment that is quite expensive for PoW.
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Both are valid ways to obtain crypto, in my opinion they differ only in the type of initial investment, POW requires cutting-edge GPU technical equipment and obviously the cost of electricity and POS requires an investment in crypto.
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Both Proof of Work (PoW) and Proof of Stake (PoS) play crucial roles in securing blockchain transactions. While they serve the same purpose, they employ different consensus mechanisms. PoW and PoS are vital components in various blockchain networks, including Bitcoin (which uses PoW) and other cryptocurrencies that utilize PoS or hybrid models. So to the best of my knowledge both proof of work (poW) and proof of stake (poS) are important.
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while PoW can be manipulated but it's like they have to spend few hundred dollars for every 10 minute to give the pause but nothing more damage can be done.
Seriously?
Spend a few hundred dollars every 10 minute to give the pause?
What is this even supposed to mean?
Both are valid ways to obtain crypto, in my opinion they differ only in the type of initial investment, POW requires cutting-edge GPU technical equipment
GPU mining was dead for most coins years ago, ASICs were developed for most coins, so no, you would not be able to mine a thing, E9 was already a kick in the but for a lot of GPU miners.
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GPU mining was dead for most coins years ago, ASICs were developed for most coins, so no, you would not be able to mine a thing, E9 was already a kick in the but for a lot of GPU miners.
What is the forecast for GPU mining, is it finally finished?
I haven't followed anything at all about mining for a long time, but I assume that if there is no indication in the bull run now that some coin could revive this segment, I assume that the era of GPU mining is over for good. The fact that there are still a few GPU-friendly coins I don't think is enough to restart the whole industry.
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We all know that PoW and PoS are the most important aspects of mining in cryptocurrency, but both have their own problems...
PoW has energy issues which of course are a concern for the future of the world
While PoS has security issues, which of course raises concerns for investors because they always want to make sure their funds are safe.
Which one is more worthy of being maintained in this cryptocurrency space?
Pos doesn't have security issues. It has decentralization issues
Pos is like this
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJHrw6bIep6BAPaCv6tReWcty8xsOqF-kkhw&usqp=CAU)
While pow is basically staking energy.
You are using something really valuable, from outside the system and using it to secure the network. Anyone with energy available can just do it , not just a few "owners' of the network like pos.
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The POS and POW are both important in their different aspects and how they validate their transactions and add new blocks. They might have the issues with their different majors like POS which has mining issues with large energy consumption, while POW has its own in it's staking requirements.
POS could have more limitations to POW, but they are both needed in the industry. POS has been before POW, which gave room for POW to work on the down sides of POS for a better chance of making competitive stand in the industry.
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While pow is basically staking energy.
You are using something really valuable, from outside the system and using it to secure the network. Anyone with energy available can just do it , not just a few "owners' of the network like pos.
But isn't this technically the same?
There are two things:
- you need to buy ASICs and spend $ on electricity to mine Bitcoin
- you need to spend $ on ETH to stake
Further down the road, when Bitcoin will top issuing coins, the same picture as above will be true, coins will be awarded to miners only if the user spends said coins, so the circuit is closed not only do you have to mine but you also need bagholders to spend ending it technically at the same point.
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But isn't this technically the same?
There are two things:
- you need to buy ASICs and spend $ on electricity to mine Bitcoin
- you need to spend $ on ETH to stake
I get your point, but I dont think this is exactly the same.
Most ETH rich wallets got their ETH for free. They can just click a few buttons and secure the network with those eth. The security of the system is based in itself.
While nobody got BTC for free, and even early adopters can`t just tranforms their BTC into more BTC passively. They need to create a mining operation, which can`t be done just by interacting with a smartcontract.
They would need to sell their btc, move to a location with cheap energy, buy ASICs, rent a proper place, etc.. The security of the sytem is based in something happening in the real world, phisically.
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The POS and POW are both important in their different aspects and how they validate their transactions and add new blocks. They might have the issues with their different majors like POS which has mining issues with large energy consumption, while POW has its own in it's staking requirements.
POS could have more limitations to POW, but they are both needed in the industry. POS has been before POW, which gave room for POW to work on the down sides of POS for a better chance of making competitive stand in the industry.
Proof of work might be energy consuming but I don't think decentralization can ever be achieved like using proof of stake. When you consider Proof of work, you are considering decentralization and security over speed while Proof of stake means to are speed and security over decentralization, sometimes security is comprised in doing Prrof of stake.
I like proof of work because of the centralization but imagine if we can achieved maximum speed in doing that, there wouldn't be topic of proof of stake in the first place.
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Most ETH rich wallets got their ETH for free. They can just click a few buttons and secure the network with those eth. The security of the system is based in itself.
While nobody got BTC for free, and even early adopters can`t just tranforms their BTC into more BTC passively. They need to create a mining operation, which can`t be done just by interacting with a smartcontract.
Have to disagree here:
(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/12/24/DVxvf.png)
As for the multiple steps involved when transforming btc into hashing power, as always there are two sides to the story
- for eth you buy it with $ , thus making $eth more expensive with each step
- with BTC someone creating his hashing empire has no effect on the price, Bitcoin will have the same price and obviously the same line of defense even if China builds 1000 farms or none
There are pro and cons for everything, that's why we have both of them up and running.
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(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/12/24/DVxvf.png)
This is not really really free bitcoins.
He is paying for your clicks and time. This is how Facebook, Meta, X, etc make money. One of the most profitable products in the world: your screen time.
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(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/12/24/DVxvf.png)
This is not really really free bitcoins.
He is paying for your clicks and time. This is how Facebook, Meta, X, etc make money. One of the most profitable products in the world: your screen time.
I fully agree with you I have seen so many YouTube videos on how people get paid by spending time with a particular app and they earn.
I guess this is really what has happen there.
Screen times are really one of the most profitable things. They really earn a lot from that. All they just need is your time and attention that all.
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This is not really really free bitcoins. He is paying for your clicks and time.
Bruh..... ::)
Most ETH rich wallets got their ETH for free.
Why do you have to change even the definition of free just because you need to take one side in this story?
F&^& even air is not free because I have to breathe the damn thing first!
Try to be less biased if you really want to be objective on this.
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Most ETH rich wallets got their ETH for free.
Why do you have to change even the definition of free just because you need to take one side in this story?
F&^& even air is not free because I have to breathe the damn thing first!
Try to be less biased if you really want to be objective on this.
Most of owners of etheteum (devs, founders, etc) just got their eth for free. Basically pre mined. Worth millions of dollars since launch.
You could compare those people with satoshi. Who didn't convert his bitcoin into mining gear and is now controlling the network as a big player in mining.
While those 5 bitcoin in the website you mentioned werent worth not even 0.001 usd at the time.
And everyone is bised.
I am just pointing out that bitcoin security is made from something outside the system while etheruem isn't. This is objective. Nobody can disagree with this.
Anyway, I am heavily invested in eth.
Since 2017. I think it is a good coin. But pow is very different than pos
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(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/12/24/DVxvf.png)
Isn't the old faucet that gives away 5 BTC per captcha solved?
There's a discussion about this on instragram and Reddit about those people who claimed 5 BTC per captcha solved and are now rich even that man just solved one captcha.
I am not sure what you are arguing about, whether it is free or not, but the task is still very simple claim 5 BTC for each captcha solved.
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I think that both POW and POS are useful on the economy, though Proof of work is completely alliened to the decentralized concept of Bitcoin, while Proof of stakes has been considered good for it fast transactions speeds. In terms of security, proof of work is considered a better option than Proof of stake.
In addition, Proof of state is more environmentally friendly and could be more effective, because it does no require computational or mathematics puzzles. I think that generally both play important rolls on the crypto economy.
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I am just pointing out that bitcoin security is made from something outside the system while etheruem isn't. This is objective. Nobody can disagree with this.
And again this can be a god thing or a bad thing, an attacker would need to buy ETH rising the price while it can buy gear without making BTC more expensive and difficult to attack, quite the contrary as a miner acquiring 20% of the hashrate on top of what we have would make some legit miners go bankrupt.
Neither system is perfect and I seriously doubt a truly decentralized system can be constructed without medium risks that require only $ to be exploited.
Isn't the old faucet that gives away 5 BTC per captcha solved?
Yup, and someone drained it with a bot back in those days, imagine his state of mind now if he had sold them prior to $10.
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Isn't the old faucet that gives away 5 BTC per captcha solved?
There's a discussion about this on instragram and Reddit about those people who claimed 5 BTC per captcha solved and are now rich even that man just solved one captcha.
I am not sure what you are arguing about, whether it is free or not, but the task is still very simple claim 5 BTC for each captcha solved.
It's a similar story to that of Laslov, who gave thousands of Bitcoins for one pizza.
You can't make any analysis based on that. Even today, when we pay for some small things in bitcoin, there will probably be a huge overprice in 5 or 10 years, but who saved BTC for that entire period?
In that initial time, I had several faucet sites that mathematically brought me profit even though I was giving my users 1-2 BTC per month. I don't think any of them hold BTC until today.
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We all know that PoW and PoS are the most important aspects of mining in cryptocurrency, but both have their own problems...
PoW has energy issues which of course are a concern for the future of the world
While PoS has security issues, which of course raises concerns for investors because they always want to make sure their funds are safe.
Which one is more worthy of being maintained in this cryptocurrency space?
Pos doesn't have security issues. It has decentralization issues
Pos is like this
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJHrw6bIep6BAPaCv6tReWcty8xsOqF-kkhw&usqp=CAU)
While pow is basically staking energy.
You are using something really valuable, from outside the system and using it to secure the network. Anyone with energy available can just do it , not just a few "owners' of the network like pos.
pos is utter nonsense. nice illustration for those that dont understand the damge pos does to the world.
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I think that both POW and POS are useful on the economy, though Proof of work is completely alliened to the decentralized concept of Bitcoin, while Proof of stakes has been considered good for it fast transactions speeds. In terms of security, proof of work is considered a better option than Proof of stake.
In addition, Proof of state is more environmentally friendly and could be more effective, because it does no require computational or mathematics puzzles. I think that generally both play important rolls on the crypto economy.
Yeah, I share your viewpoint. POW is more decentralized, with the Bitcoin blockchain being the most prominent example, but it consumes a lot of energy. Meanwhile, POS is energy-efficient but faces numerous decentralization issues when staking protocols are widely implemented.
For practical application, we need POW or BTC for the purpose of establishing the position for the entire market and moving high-value assets, while we also need POS for simpler and more common purposes. Setting up a new POS blockchain is much simpler than a new POW blockchain, staking is simpler than mining, and we can apply blockchain technology more easily and quickly.
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Most ETH rich wallets got their ETH for free.
Why do you have to change even the definition of free just because you need to take one side in this story?
F&^& even air is not free because I have to breathe the damn thing first!
Try to be less biased if you really want to be objective on this.
Most of owners of etheteum (devs, founders, etc) just got their eth for free. Basically pre mined. Worth millions of dollars since launch.
You could compare those people with satoshi. Who didn't convert his bitcoin into mining gear and is now controlling the network as a big player in mining.
While those 5 bitcoin in the website you mentioned werent worth not even 0.001 usd at the time.
And everyone is bised.
I am just pointing out that bitcoin security is made from something outside the system while etheruem isn't. This is objective. Nobody can disagree with this.
Anyway, I am heavily invested in eth.
Since 2017. I think it is a good coin. But pow is very different than pos
you should get rid of eth its a bad coin.
but this is not advice just what I believe.
no one should keep their eth.
it is a doomed coin with big enemies such as nvidia.
but I have called lots of bad shots over the years.
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Right now, we already know the advantages and disadvantages of both PoW and PoS and it all depends on the market into the future which will eventually survive...or maybe just like now we can see both of them flourishing and kicking many years from now. Honestly, if there is gonna be something that can make or break any one of them it must be security issues. PoW is more secure than PoS, of course, but it does not automatically mean that the latter can easily yield to attacks. The market right now is giving Bitcoin a pass on its energy requirement but newer platforms are shying away from this formula already as they don't want to add more burden on our energy supply just to make something run.
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no one should keep their eth.
it is a doomed coin with big enemies such as nvidia.
This makes no sense.
Nvidia always tried to stop people from mining with their rigs. They added hashrate limitations called LHR to stop people from mining. Now they are enemies of eth because eth doesn't need Nvidia anymore?
This just doesn't make sense.
I am not defending PoS , I am just saying that Nvidia doesn't care about it. They are worried about deep seek and chatgpt
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They are worried about deep seek and chatgpt
Why would they be worried about it?
The AI businesses are the only ones buying H800, nvidia sold 50% more to data centers in 2023 and 110% more in 2024, while an even bigger share was directly for AI, they don't even care that much about consumers, they have basically abandoned the lower tier graphic card and are only trying to keep the middle-upper range.
Without AI nvidia would be half their MC right now.
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They are worried about deep seek and chatgpt
Why would they be worried about it?
The AI businesses are the only ones buying H800, nvidia sold 50% more to data centers in 2023 and 110% more in 2024, while an even bigger share was directly for AI, they don't even care that much about consumers, they have basically abandoned the lower tier graphic card and are only trying to keep the middle-upper range.
Without AI nvidia would be half their MC right now.
I think haven't been reading the news latetly.
Deep seek makes the same result of chatgpt with less than 5% of the processing power.
And deepseek is open source, so chatgpt will apply this efficient to their model.
So, NVIDIA would simple sell 95% less.
https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/technology/3243438-deepseek-revolutionizing-ai-with-efficiency-and-innovation
Founded in 2023, DeepSeek's success lies in its R1 and V3 models. The V3 model, a robust language model, matches the prowess of OpenAI's GPT-4o and Anthropic's Claude 3.5 but at a fraction of the cost, approximately USD 5.58 million compared to GPT-4's USD 100 million.
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no one should keep their eth.
it is a doomed coin with big enemies such as nvidia.
This makes no sense.
Nvidia always tried to stop people from mining with their rigs. They added hashrate limitations called LHR to stop people from mining. Now they are enemies of eth because eth doesn't need Nvidia anymore?
This just doesn't make sense.
I am not defending PoS , I am just saying that Nvidia doesn't care about it. They are worried about deep seek and chatgpt
That is funny Nvidia always put on a fake dog and pony show claiming they did not want miners taking up the cards. Meanwhile they made bank like mad then decided to pivot to AI which is turning out to be a huge miscalculation on their part.
But it's okay you can believe that the ai dead end is Nvidia's main goal for profit. and that they did not want mining on their cards.
The reality is they are scrambling to figure out if they can warp deepseek to work like god on their cards or go back to mining gpu sales.
Companies like Nvidia only have profit in their sights.