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Learning & News => News related to Crypto => Topic started by: ABCbits on November 04, 2024, 10:59:58 AM

Title: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: ABCbits on November 04, 2024, 10:59:58 AM
Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Research Finds

Governments looking to ban bitcoin (BTC) mining for environmental reasons should think twice — it could backfire.

That’s the conclusion from a new academic paper by crypto research firm Exponential Science, published on Thursday and titled ‘The Unintended Carbon Consequences of Bitcoin Mining Bans: A Paradox in Environmental Policy.’... Read more here (https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/11/01/bitcoin-mining-bans-can-backfire-on-climate-conscious-governments-a-new-research-finds/).



Their main argument is miner would move to different area where it's electricity based on use fossil or other non-renewable energy. That makes sense since miner looking for low operational cost. Your opinion is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: Charles-Tim on November 04, 2024, 11:35:05 AM
I wonder why this did not come my mind when bitcoin mining was banned in China as many miners moved to Kazakhstan. Many Chinese miners are using clean energy to mine. It was reported that time that above 70% of mining at the time was through clean/green energy. But many miners moved to Kazakhstan, a country that is primarily and mainly using fossil fuel like coal as their source if energy.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: hugeblack on November 04, 2024, 12:07:33 PM
Mostly such effects will not be taken care of especially if Bitcoin is banned for environmental reasons, countries will definitely try to impose a global ban which will force miners to work in small mining groups. Bitcoin mining requires cheap energy and I think it is a global problem more than it is related to Bitcoin, whenever there is cheap and clean energy the problem will be solved.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: robelneo on November 04, 2024, 12:28:30 PM
This is because of government ignorance; they failed to understand the pros and cons of mining so if they see a company that uses solar powered panels for their mining and then ban  it they will go underground or move to where they can mine even to the point of using fossil fuel.
Bitcoin mining cannot be stopped because miners see the profit or they have to recover the cost of setting up so they have no choice but to continue mining at whatever cost.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: Lucius on November 04, 2024, 05:55:57 PM
The myth that Bitcoin mining affects the climate and the environment has been broken a long time ago, now it's just a matter of how much those at the top want to accept it as truth or will they continue to persist in their agenda - "Bitcoin is not good because it pollutes the environment".

A few years ago, data showed that BTC mining consumes about 0.2% of the total energy consumed, and let's say that it was about 200 TWh per year - while on the other hand, the losses in the electrical network amount to an incredible 50 000 TWh.

Any attacks coming from that direction are therefore completely meaningless - and the less BTC there is for mining and the smaller the rewards per block, the fewer miners there will be - and by the end of the decade there will be about 1% left (210 000 BTC ) which will be mined until approximately 2140. What I want to say is that in the near future BTC mining will become something in which only the biggest players will compete - and only if the price of BTC is so high that it will continue to be profitable for them.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: MrSpasybo on November 04, 2024, 07:26:13 PM
The myth that Bitcoin mining affects the climate and the environment has been broken a long time ago, now it's just a matter of how much those at the top want to accept it as truth or will they continue to persist in their agenda - "Bitcoin is not good because it pollutes the environment".

A few years ago, data showed that BTC mining consumes about 0.2% of the total energy consumed, and let's say that it was about 200 TWh per year - while on the other hand, the losses in the electrical network amount to an incredible 50 000 TWh.

Any attacks coming from that direction are therefore completely meaningless - and the less BTC there is for mining and the smaller the rewards per block, the fewer miners there will be - and by the end of the decade there will be about 1% left (210 000 BTC ) which will be mined until approximately 2140. What I want to say is that in the near future BTC mining will become something in which only the biggest players will compete - and only if the price of BTC is so high that it will continue to be profitable for them.
Yeah, BTC is super green now since over 50% of the energy used by the BTC network is renewable, not dirty old fossil fuels. Plus, BTC mining is actually driving the energy industry forward, helping regions come up with smarter ways to use their available energy.

Those bans on BTC mining don't really hurt BTC, look at what happened in China: it just made miners go look for more friendly places to operate. After all, BTC mining is its own industry now, and no government can just force all the miners to shut down. BTC is here to stay and we don't have to worry about those environmental concerns they keep bringing up.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: TomPluz on November 05, 2024, 05:04:19 AM
Their main argument is miner would move to different area where it's electricity based on use fossil or other non-renewable energy. That makes sense since miner looking for low operational cost.

Yes, of course, as long there can be big money to be made in Bitcoin and crypto mining, there will always be players and if a certain jurisdiction would be kicking their operations due to any reason then they would look for other possible locations that can be friendly to their mining business. Still, I don't really care if many countries will kick mining as there will always be takers...even USA is now open to mining business though I am not sure how good is the ROI in USA compared to other countries. The argument that Bitcoin mining is so bad for the environment is already a debunked one. What happened in China really comes to mind and I understand that the ban just disperse mining operations to other friendly countries...and at the end I would say that the China ban is actually good for Bitcoin since we do not want a single country to be controlling the business of Bitcoin mining.





Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: ABCbits on November 05, 2024, 10:16:31 AM
This is because of government ignorance; they failed to understand the pros and cons of mining so if they see a company that uses solar powered panels for their mining and then ban  it they will go underground or move to where they can mine even to the point of using fossil fuel.

Government who does that doesn't even care whether miner use non-renewable energy elsewhere.

Bitcoin mining cannot be stopped because miners see the profit or they have to recover the cost of setting up so they have no choice but to continue mining at whatever cost.

I wouldn't say at whether cost, since mining at high electricity price would leads to higher loss where their only option is either moving again or sell their ASIC.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: Steve5946 on November 05, 2024, 03:38:42 PM
Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Research Finds

Governments looking to ban bitcoin (BTC) mining for environmental reasons should think twice — it could backfire.


I don't think this will be a global issue, even if they ban crypto mining. Moreover, even with the ban, some groups of people will continue to mine crypto...

Lastly, everything that has a disadvantage, has an advantage...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: Lucius on November 05, 2024, 05:29:41 PM
Yeah, BTC is super green now since over 50% of the energy used by the BTC network is renewable, not dirty old fossil fuels. Plus, BTC mining is actually driving the energy industry forward, helping regions come up with smarter ways to use their available energy.
~snip~


Unfortunately, so much negativity has come out in the public domain that probably a lot of people still think that Bitcoin is harmful to the environment. For years, people have been scared that they will remain in the dark because Bitcoin spends as much as their entire country in the whole year, and such things are very difficult to deny, considering that no serious media that is under the control of the government anywhere in the world will publish such a thing.

Imagine that the EU has been talking about banning cryptocurrency mining for years, but in the end they realized that they actually have nothing to ban because it almost doesn't exist in the EU considering that it is almost unprofitable due to the price of electricity.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: bitterguy28 on November 06, 2024, 06:16:01 AM
I wonder why this did not come my mind when bitcoin mining was banned in China as many miners moved to Kazakhstan. Many Chinese miners are using clean energy to mine. It was reported that time that above 70% of mining at the time was through clean/green energy.
this shows that it is possible to mine bitcoin without putting too much damage to the environment if the government use the “environment-card” i just assume it is not real especially from a country that is wealthy and could easily put in the money to be more environmentally friendly when mining bitcoin
Quote
But many miners moved to Kazakhstan, a country that is primarily and mainly using fossil fuel like coal as their source if energy.
i wish the government exerted effort and resources to learning more about clean mining and use this to their advantage instead of completely banning bitcoin with the reason of concern for the environment
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: ZAINmalik75 on November 06, 2024, 09:14:39 PM
Their main argument is miner would move to different area where it's electricity based on use fossil or other non-renewable energy. That makes sense since miner looking for low operational cost. Your opinion is greatly appreciated.
Which government are you talking about? If it's about the USA then no one is going to ban the mining of BTC because they have applied huge taxes on the usage of electricity that miners are using and they are paying taxes on their profits too. Mining in America is not cheap because electricity is expensive there plus the taxes.

All miners can't afford to mine BTC in such expensive areas they use solar panels or wind energy to run Mining rigs to make more profits. Governments should provide some solution to this problem instead of banning it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: ABCbits on November 07, 2024, 09:55:55 AM
Their main argument is miner would move to different area where it's electricity based on use fossil or other non-renewable energy. That makes sense since miner looking for low operational cost. Your opinion is greatly appreciated.
Which government are you talking about? If it's about the USA then no one is going to ban the mining of BTC because they have applied huge taxes on the usage of electricity that miners are using and they are paying taxes on their profits too. Mining in America is not cheap because electricity is expensive there plus the taxes.

All miners can't afford to mine BTC in such expensive areas they use solar panels or wind energy to run Mining rigs to make more profits. Governments should provide some solution to this problem instead of banning it.

When i say "their" on "Their main argument is...", i refer to argument presented on the research which cited by CoinDesk.

Quote from: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/11/01/bitcoin-mining-bans-can-backfire-on-climate-conscious-governments-a-new-research-finds/
The paper’s findings? In some jurisdictions, a blanket bitcoin mining ban can actually trigger an increase in the industry’s overall carbon emissions, as the affected miners may relocate to new regions with electric grids that rely on fossil fuels.

And if you read the full news, you should've seen images which shows where the ban have positive or negative effect.

Quote from: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/11/01/bitcoin-mining-bans-can-backfire-on-climate-conscious-governments-a-new-research-finds/
(https://www.coindesk.com/resizer/GtFhZZi4bKnhLKZecUw9iGgs_CM=/811x528/filters:quality(80):format(webp)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/coindesk/BUT3YMEUL5DE5KEXSTLMYPXGKY.jpeg)
Source: Exponential Science (Exponential Science)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: NotATether on November 07, 2024, 10:09:12 AM
I wonder why this did not come my mind when bitcoin mining was banned in China as many miners moved to Kazakhstan. Many Chinese miners are using clean energy to mine. It was reported that time that above 70% of mining at the time was through clean/green energy. But many miners moved to Kazakhstan, a country that is primarily and mainly using fossil fuel like coal as their source if energy.

Because China wants to be able to control the product that they mine, but since they can't control Bitcoin, it makes little sense for them to allow it in their territory, which is why they sent miners packing. (In line with other bans they have enforced over the past two decades.)

Imagine that the EU has been talking about banning cryptocurrency mining for years, but in the end they realized that they actually have nothing to ban because it almost doesn't exist in the EU considering that it is almost unprofitable due to the price of electricity.

There's actually people who mine in the EU? That sounds very un-profitable given high fuel and electricity costs.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: ABCbits on November 07, 2024, 11:04:27 AM
Imagine that the EU has been talking about banning cryptocurrency mining for years, but in the end they realized that they actually have nothing to ban because it almost doesn't exist in the EU considering that it is almost unprofitable due to the price of electricity.

There's actually people who mine in the EU? That sounds very un-profitable given high fuel and electricity costs.

It's probably on individual or hobby level. AFAIK Kryptovault was last big scale mining on Europe, where they stopped mining on either late 2022 or early 2023.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: Lucius on November 07, 2024, 06:06:11 PM
Imagine that the EU has been talking about banning cryptocurrency mining for years, but in the end they realized that they actually have nothing to ban because it almost doesn't exist in the EU considering that it is almost unprofitable due to the price of electricity.

There's actually people who mine in the EU? That sounds very un-profitable given high fuel and electricity costs.


Those who do not pay for electricity are definitely profitable to engage in such business - there are many such stories in Eastern Europe, especially in some countries of the Balkans. In addition, I think that Germany had perhaps the largest share in mining, at least that's what the statistics showed - although I don't know how crypto mining is profitable for them.

What I know is that there is mining in Italy that is based on hydropower and which, by all accounts, is profitable - there is a topic on BTT that was started three years ago by @fillippone.

ALPS BLOCKCHAIN: mining in Italy from 100% renewable energy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5359284.0)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: Bobcrypto on January 20, 2025, 12:27:56 PM
This is because of government ignorance; they failed to understand the pros and cons of mining so if they see a company that uses solar powered panels for their mining and then ban  it they will go underground or move to where they can mine even to the point of using fossil fuel.
Bitcoin mining cannot be stopped because miners see the profit or they have to recover the cost of setting up so they have no choice but to continue mining at whatever cost.

Yes, you have a good point here, the cost of mining will not actually affect miners in as much as Bitcoin has a very limited supply and there are possibilities of price skyrocketing in near future. Obviously the demand is always improving by the day, a situation that will always encourage miners to leave certain geographical areas to where there is available energy and friendly environments.
I think that this ban will not in any way deter the Bitcoin mining business, there will always be a way out for a source of energy in many part of the world..
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: Faisal2202 on January 20, 2025, 08:07:55 PM
Yes, you have a good point here, the cost of mining will not actually affect miners in as much as Bitcoin has a very limited supply and there are possibilities of price skyrocketing in near future. Obviously the demand is always improving by the day, a situation that will always encourage miners to leave certain geographical areas to where there is available energy and friendly environments.
I think that this ban will not in any way deter the Bitcoin mining business, there will always be a way out for a source of energy in many part of the world..
Miners can really make that move and change but they need resources and solo miners is not a thing anymore in my sight that's totally luck if you would make a whole BTC, and speaking of mining in groups that's not healthy too because the main goal of governments I am seeing is to take control of most of the mining power and who knows who owns these mining pools we all are joining.

The point is they had to eliminate the small fishes and they did it easily only the ones with resources can make some move to be able to mine still. Overall business is not going anywhere, a BTC miner can be in lose for 1 or 2 or max 3 years in my sight after that he will be 5x from that loss into profit. NFA.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: bitterguy28 on January 21, 2025, 05:25:26 AM
I think that this ban will not in any way deter the Bitcoin mining business, there will always be a way out for a source of energy in many part of the world..
the benefits of mining itself is a lot bigger than whatever sacrifice one has to make in terms of financial expenses or time cost and etc so of course mining will not stop here it is not yet that bad that miners would not see the worth of doing mining anymore and i think as time pass by there will be a lot more options in the future where to get energies and eventually it would be a lot easier and a lot cheaper to access these advancements
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: TomPluz on January 21, 2025, 06:45:50 AM


Bitcoin is already unstoppable and even if some governments may decided to ban its mining eventually miners can find their way in some other parts of the world where they can continue do business. The best thing to do is to regulate Bitcoin mining and not ban it altogether which can be a very short-sighted reaction. There is now that technology that will use excess power facility so that nothing can come to waste. As long as Bitcoin mining is profitable, there will be miners and they are taking their business anywhere they can, that is for sure.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Mining Bans Can Backfire on Climate Conscious Governments, a New Res...
Post by: Bobcrypto on January 28, 2025, 09:55:38 AM
I don't think there is any known benefits of banning Bitcoin mining, an attempt to ban Bitcoin mining will face strong resistance by miners, first because Bitcoin has great rewards benefits now and in the future; secondly there are many countries in the world who will make energy available since they they can generate huge revenue over times.

In my opinion, any country that has banned Bitcoin with flency excuses may have some economic or political motive. However, economically Bitcoin is in a better positions to enhance the economy of any nation if there are room for a investments opportunity with unnecessary regulatory laws.