Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Cryptocurrency Ecosystem => Crypto Wallets => Topic started by: examplens on November 17, 2024, 03:44:07 PM
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As I said, I need a proposal for a hardware wallet in which I will deposit some Bitcoin amount for the purpose of a gift. It is a gift to important people and the deposited Bitcoin will not be touched for a long time (several years).
Therefore, the wallet must be easy to use, even if the people who use it are IT literate, I would like to minimize the risk of misunderstanding its use. It will be a somewhat more significant amount, not only promotional.
Also, it cannot depend on any batteries, software updates or the like, which can complicate activation after years of non-use.
For now, the option closest to what I need is https://satochip.io/ but I would like to hear other quality suggestions. I'll mention dkbit98, I know he's been following the hardware wallet topic a lot.
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If it is open source, you can use it. It is cheap. But you can also get the user a wallet like Trrezor Safe 3 which is not also very expensive but expensive than Satoship but it is not just a card-like wallet but a real hardware wallet.
If I want to gift anyone bitcoin, I will prefer to teach the person what seed phrase, keys and addresses are and prefer to only give him the seed phrase and passphrase of the wallet that I funded and tell him its worth and the reason not to lose the seed phrase and passphrase backup and that the backup should be in different location.
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If it is open source, you can use it. It is cheap. But you can also get the user a wallet like Trrezor Safe 3 which is not also very expensive but expensive than Satoship but it is not just a card-like wallet but a real hardware wallet.
I thought about Trezor, but the idea is not for it to be a wallet for regular use, but exclusively for long-term storage. I hope for at least 10-15 years. Additional functionality of the wallet is not a priority.
If I want to gift anyone bitcoin, I will prefer to teach the person what seed phrase, keys and addresses are and prefer to only give him the seed phrase and passphrase of the wallet that I funded and tell him its worth and the reason not to lose the seed phrase and passphrase backup and that the backup should be in different location.
When I say gift, I mean it in the true sense of the word. After it leaves my hands, I no longer need to have access to it and the new owner must be completely independent from me or any third to learn party.
Like I said, a period of 10-15+ years. Who knows what will happen to me during that time.
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For now, the option closest to what I need is https://satochip.io/ but I would like to hear other quality suggestions. I'll mention dkbit98, I know he's been following the hardware wallet topic a lot.
Honestly, SatoChip seems to be best option since similar device is more expensive or doesn't provide source code. CoinKite's TapSigner could be an alternative since the company have been around for some time, but recently they got accused for attacking open-source project.
Therefore, the wallet must be easy to use, even if the people who use it are IT literate, I would like to minimize the risk of misunderstanding its use.
If it is open source, you can use it. It is cheap. But you can also get the user a wallet like Trrezor Safe 3 which is not also very expensive but expensive than Satoship but it is not just a card-like wallet but a real hardware wallet.
I thought about Trezor, but the idea is not for it to be a wallet for regular use, but exclusively for long-term storage. I hope for at least 10-15 years. Additional functionality of the wallet is not a priority.
Fulfilling those two requirement is difficult task. After that long, you may have difficulty finding guide or software in order to move the coin from the hardware wallet.
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Fulfilling those two requirement is difficult task. After that long, you may have difficulty finding guide or software in order to move the coin from the hardware wallet.
That is what worries me the most. For such a long period, it is easily possible that the company that produces the hardware ceases to exist and therefore ceases to provide support. Maybe I should save to offline drive all the documentation and current software that would reduce the risk, but not completely.
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For now, the option closest to what I need is https://satochip.io/ but I would like to hear other quality suggestions. I'll mention dkbit98, I know he's been following the hardware wallet topic a lot.
Cards from Satochip are a great choice, but make sure to choose the correct one for your use case.
Satochip is more like a hardware wallet, Satodime is used as the bearer cold storage, and Seedkeeper for storing encrypted seedphrase.
I like the card format and you can add any card sticker to customize it exactly like you want.
Another option is to give someone just seed words in stainless steel, that can be plain washers with stamped words with a bolt.
There are also ready made products that are more expensive.
PS
I wouldn't waste many on any hardware wallets with built-in batteries.
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For $25 it's pretty cheap, and I think it's a great package to use to give bitcoin as a gift...does the recipient also need to use the card reader? If so, that means we have to prepare $45 to buy the card and the card reader... and I'm starting to think the Trezor model one might be worth considering since it's $34... the harder it is for the recipient to understand how to use it, the longer they will hold it... and while we're still teaching them how to use it, if they want to add money to the wallet.
For me, I trust Trezor more, but the decision is also in your hands, adjust it to your ego and your needs... I'm sure it's also the best for you when you make a decision with your consideration.
BTW.. Are you inserting a marketing strategy here? Initially I never thought of giving BTC as a gift with Satochip but now I am starting to be interested in satochip... I kind of think this idea is not bad either
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For me, I trust Trezor more, but the decision is also in your hands, adjust it to your ego and your needs... I'm sure it's also the best for you when you make a decision with your consideration.
I'm not sure what will happen to Trezor One in 15 years. Will there be any support for him?
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I'm not sure what will happen to Trezor One in 15 years. Will there be any support for him?
I don't think so.
My theory is that they are slowly going to stop posting updates For Tezor One after they release they long awaited device with Tropic Square chip.
They are surely going to stop manufacturing it in near future, and this is to be expected for first ever hardware wallet in the world.
Let's not forget that developers from trezor also gase as BIP39 that most of the people use today.
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If it is open source, you can use it. It is cheap. But you can also get the user a wallet like Trrezor Safe 3 which is not also very expensive but expensive than Satoship but it is not just a card-like wallet but a real hardware wallet.
I would certainly go on a Trezor device.
This is a very old and reputable wallet. Certainly one of the best crypto related products around.
It is easy to use... anyone can just google Trezor and find how it works
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How about Bitbox 02 Bitcoin Edition? I like this one because it is way easier to use I think that it supports only BTC so that your friend won't be confused.
Is it more confusing to use a hardware wallet that supports multiple coins than a simple hardware wallet like the Bitbox02 BTC edition?
The only problem is it is a bit more expensive than just buying Trezor. For cheap wise then I choose trezor one.
We don't know how long hardware wallets last but I think better make an offline wallet with tails in a USB flash drive. According to Google, a flash drive can last 10 years to 100 years, depending on how you store it. Having silica gel will protect it from moisture.
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How about Bitbox 02 Bitcoin Edition? I like this one because it is way easier to use I think that it supports only BTC so that your friend won't be confused.
Is it more confusing to use a hardware wallet that supports multiple coins than a simple hardware wallet like the Bitbox02 BTC edition?
The only problem is it is a bit more expensive than just buying Trezor. For cheap wise then I choose trezor one.
I had to Google about it to see. Beautiful one.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDVQPuIdqWlqfjAZivNKZcjqh7tdWaSzxYKA&s)
Personally, I still prefer a trezor but both are nice.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcTxSm1pl5ubNUlM1swN10ik7SdXk9XqxoEz-3z3jUd2Wjf_kgvDiRAgqks_p99_z_rIFZBjT7&usqp=CAE)
We don't know how long hardware wallets last but I think better make an offline wallet with tails in a USB flash drive. According to Google, a flash drive can last 10 years to 100 years, depending on how you store it. Having silica gel will protect it from moisture.
After 6 years my ledger visor gone black. I had to replace it.
It costed like 3 usd from China (alibaba)
I hope it lasts more 6 years 😀
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How about Bitbox 02 Bitcoin Edition? I like this one because it is way easier to use I think that it supports only BTC so that your friend won't be confused.
This is a fine device, but I wouldn't give this or any other classic hardware wallet to someone who don't know anything about bitcoin and how it works.
I am sure they wouldn't know how to use it even with instructions, and same goes with Trezor devices, maybe they are easy for us, but not for most of the normies.
They all have to have firmware updates and OP said he doesn't want that.
Some of the seed backup solutions seems like a good durable option for long term, and they don't need to be updated:
https://thebitcoinhole.com/seed-backup
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It's an interesting idea
I've already given BTC as a paper wallet, I just printed it out, put BTC in the address and gave it as a gift
But to last that long I can only think of one idea, something like the cryptosteel, some metal object where you record the seed and give it to the person.
In a few years any hardware can fail, with or without batteries
That is what worries me the most. For such a long period, it is easily possible that the company that produces the hardware ceases to exist and therefore ceases to provide support. Maybe I should save to offline drive all the documentation and current software that would reduce the risk, but not completely.
In this case, the most important thing is to choose a wallet that have the standard BIP39 for example
Even if they stop to produce and sell hardwallet, you can continue using in another wallets, and in extreme situations, you just need your seed to put in another wallet
The important thing here is the seed / private key
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Speaking of hardware wallets you must know that a hardware wallet is a great option if you are looking for a safe and convenient way to store your coins. They are considered the safest way to store your cryptocurrency, as they are not as vulnerable to hacks as certain software wallets. Hardware wallets allow you to securely backup your keys, so you can keep your keys in case you lose your device and you can always recover your funds. Trezor is another popular choice as it is one of the most secure wallets available. On the other hand, Keepkey is second on my list due to its ability to balance features, security and cost.
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It's an interesting idea
I've already given BTC as a paper wallet, I just printed it out, put BTC in the address and gave it as a gift
But to last that long I can only think of one idea, something like the cryptosteel, some metal object where you record the seed and give it to the person.
I once gave a seed in a WhatsApp message (as an image) to a friend .
It was a low amount, like 10 usd. I also gave the instructions on how to redeem using electrum. But he never redeemed it .... my idea was to teach him how to move bitcoins and learn, but he didn't
After a few years, I can still see the coins untouched
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I once gave a seed in a WhatsApp message (as an image) to a friend .
It was a low amount, like 10 usd. I also gave the instructions on how to redeem using electrum. But he never redeemed it .... my idea was to teach him how to move bitcoins and learn, but he didn't
After a few years, I can still see the coins untouched
He probably forgot, and if the amount is not significant, he won't even bother.
In my case, I plan to write (on paper) the necessary instructions, because the amount will not be negligible. (I hope that at the time of use, it will be more significant. :) )
As there is a possibility that I will not be present when these coins are used, the matter must be independent of me.
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I once gave a seed in a WhatsApp message (as an image) to a friend .
It was a low amount, like 10 usd. I also gave the instructions on how to redeem using electrum. But he never redeemed it .... my idea was to teach him how to move bitcoins and learn, but he didn't
After a few years, I can still see the coins untouched
The person I gifted it to probably didn't do anything about the satoshis they got either
Nowadays I only explain or give more information about cryptos to those who ask me first and show interest
In my case, I plan to write (on paper) the necessary instructions, because the amount will not be negligible. (I hope that at the time of use, it will be more significant. :) )
As there is a possibility that I will not be present when these coins are used, the matter must be independent of me.
Have you managed to choose the right wallet for your gift?
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Have you managed to choose the right wallet for your gift?
https://satochip.io/product/satochip/ is the closest solution for now.
Some of the reasons for the choice are customizable designs, which can be adapted to the current purpose.
Relatively low price and I would rather load the card with more coins than pay for unnecessary features.
Ease of use and it shouldn't be complicated to document everything.
Possibility to add more assets if there is a need for it over time.
What is currently the weakest point is what the status of the chip will be in 10-15 (or more) years and its compatibility at that point. But a paper backup should be sufficient as a security.
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What is currently the weakest point is what the status of the chip will be in 10-15 (or more) years and its compatibility at that point. But a paper backup should be sufficient as a security.
I wouldn't worry about it.
A bip39 seed is enough for our life time security. There will always be something like electrum or iancoleman.io to retrieve the keys from the seed.
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get a trezor even a model 1 is decent and cheap under 50 usd
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A bip39 seed is enough for our life time security. There will always be something like electrum or iancoleman.io to retrieve the keys from the seed.
Only if it is securely stored in stainless steel metal backup, either with simple DIY washers or metal plates.
We have seen people losing everything in fires, earthquakes and floods, so I would not count on regular paper to keep bitcoin backup long term.
Or at least buy water/fire proof bags and keep everything valuable inside.
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We have seen people losing everything in fires, earthquakes and floods, so I would not count on regular paper to keep bitcoin backup long term.
Or at least buy water/fire proof bags and keep everything valuable inside.
I think it is pretty safe to just backup your seed in two different houses...
I live in a place where there are no floods or earthquakes or whatever.. so I am fine with that.
I am more worried about someone taking over my seed somehow. I have even considering putting a small amount of my bitcoin in an ETF because it might be a nice diversification of my security, about 20% of total stash... Just in case something crazy happens
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I think it is pretty safe to just backup your seed in two different houses...
That way you are also increasing a risk of someone stealing the keys, and not many people have the luxury or owning two houses.
And fires or floods can happen everywhere, they are not limited to distant countries and locations.
For few extra bucks it's silly to stay away from stainless steel instead of paper.
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I think it is pretty safe to just backup your seed in two different houses...
That way you are also increasing a risk of someone stealing the keys, and not many people have the luxury or owning two houses.
And fires or floods can happen everywhere, they are not limited to distant countries and locations.
For few extra bucks it's silly to stay away from stainless steel instead of paper.
well, I don't own two houses, but I have relatives that I trust.
I believe most of people also have them as well (like your mom. Who can't trust their own mom?)
I don't see a reason to have a stainless steel now for my seed, but I think it is ok for people who like them...
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well, I don't own two houses, but I have relatives that I trust.
Keeping copies in two different locations reduces the risk of unforeseen events. The unexpected does not have to be caused by a person you trust.
I don't see a reason to have a stainless steel now for my seed, but I think it is ok for people who like them...
I would not lightly claim that there are no reasons for an additional level of security. Unfortunately, we usually know this only when it is too late. At least that's my experience.
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I would not lightly claim that there are no reasons for an additional level of security. Unfortunately, we usually know this only when it is too late. At least that's my experience.
Yeah, I agree that this is an interesting additional level of security.
Maybe even someone trying to rob your coins might not identify a stainless steel as a seed.... Which could be useful too.
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well, I don't own two houses, but I have relatives that I trust.
Keeping copies in two different locations reduces the risk of unforeseen events. The unexpected does not have to be caused by a person you trust.
In reality, unexpected events can happen in any condition and place, Some traitors may appear and take over the wallet.
But when the reserve is stored in the right place and of course there is still protection given, such as shuffling a few words that others will not understand, of course it will be a difficult puzzle.
I have some reserves for my personal wallet and others I leave to my wife because I only trust my wife for now.
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But when the reserve is stored in the right place and of course there is still protection given, such as shuffling a few words that others will not understand, of course it will be a difficult puzzle.
In the context of giving some Bitcoin as a gift, do we need to go that far though? I guess we need to educate the receiver about security practices if he's unfamiliar with crypto, but more than that seems excessive. Especially if we're not related by blood or something similar. We can't control how they manage their crypto in the first place, just giving them resources to learn is a plus IMO. CMIIW.
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well, I don't own two houses, but I have relatives that I trust.
Than you are putting trust in other people, and that weakens your security.
Maybe they won't do anything but it's enough to share information with other people about your assets.
I would not lightly claim that there are no reasons for an additional level of security. Unfortunately, we usually know this only when it is too late. At least that's my experience.
People usually think that nothing will happen to them, so they don't think much about improving security.
I know examples of people who got robbed and only than they made drastic changes in their life.
I only trust my wife for now.
Good luck with that ;)
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well, I don't own two houses, but I have relatives that I trust.
Than you are putting trust in other people, and that weakens your security.
I wonder what kind of relationships you have if you cant trust anyone... that is weird to me. But, if that is your situation, you need to think about something else
Maybe they won't do anything but it's enough to share information with other people about your assets.
The person I trust has zero information, the person only has access to the private keys , which will be used in case he needs to recover. He cant see my balance. (the person isn't interested in spying my stuff)
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I wonder what kind of relationships you have if you cant trust anyone... that is weird to me. But, if that is your situation, you need to think about something else
With access to money, we should always be careful. Better than sorry.
Also, the matter of trust can be qualified in different ways. For example, taufik123 has trust in his wife, but is it the same with her judgment of other people? Can that trust be transferred to taufik123's wife's best friend?
Many find themselves in a difficult situation and under pressure may decide to borrow without approval because they have access to coins.
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I wonder what kind of relationships you have if you cant trust anyone... that is weird to me. But, if that is your situation, you need to think about something else
Who said that I don't trust anyone? ::)
I simply said that using relatives financially has often times resulted in people losing money, this is nothing new.
But if you trust everyone than please be so kind and please share with us your seed words and personal information here if you want.
Trust me bro 8)
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well, I don't own two houses, but I have relatives that I trust.
Than you are putting trust in other people, and that weakens your security.
I wonder what kind of relationships you have if you cant trust anyone... that is weird to me. But, if that is your situation, you need to think about something else
Who said that I don't trust anyone? ::)
well, you said that trusting other people weakens your security. That is indeed true, but I can't imagine my life without trusting anyone.
But if you trust everyone than please be so kind and please share with us your seed words and personal information here if you want.
Trust me bro 8)
I trust only close relatives, and you are not one of them ;)