Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Cryptocurrency Ecosystem => Bitcoin Forum => Bitcoin News & Updates => Topic started by: God Of Thunder on January 13, 2025, 03:08:19 PM
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Today, I was reading this article on BitcoinMagazine and I believe you guys should read this too;;
Privacy is a very important issue. It can be how you manage keeping parts of your life separate. It can be how you maintain your sense of dignity. It can be how you respect someone else’s trust. It can be a matter of your safety, even your life. At the center of all these things, it is the control over your own information. Specifically, control over who is made aware of what.
Understanding who you have to trust to keep your privacy, who you don’t have to trust, how difficult it is to overcome protections of your privacy and who can feasibly accomplish that, all of these are important things for people to understand when trying to achieve privacy.
Bitcoin has one of the most atrocious track records I’ve ever seen at honestly communicating these realities to users when it comes to Bitcoin privacy tools. I’m sure anyone who isn’t brand new to the space is well aware of the years long feud between Wasabi and Samourai, two projects that offered centralized coinjoin coordinators as a service. Samourai developers were arrested in an insane and baseless overreach trying to apply custodial financial regulations to a purely self custodial project, and Wasabi voluntarily deactivated their coordinator over fears of similar legal action.
This is a horrible state of things, but the reality is the state of things has always been horrible. The past few years prior to Samourai’s arrest and Wasabi’s deactivation were a whirlwind of nonsense.
Both teams have downplayed and hidden risks of their own services, while rabidly attacking the other. Both teams have had privacy or security related issues that they did not disclose to users. Both teams dodged around and hid from the simple reality of both projects: whether due to conscious design choices, or implementation flaws, both projects relied on the coordinator being trusted to not de-anonymize its users.
Many people likely would have still used both projects knowing that, but the reality is the choice to do so while those projects were active for most people was uninformed. Privacy is ultimately about patterns in our behavior revealing things about what we are doing, and the risk you take when concealing something is that if not enough effort was taken to keep it private whatever you did can be revealed.
People having their actions revealed can have consequences. It can ruin someone’s social life, it could create legal consequences if violating some law. In the most extreme consequences, it can literally result in someone losing their life.
That is not truly respected by a large swath of people producing privacy tools, and most definitely was not by the teams at Wasabi and Samourai. That needs to change. We don’t need anymore marketing slogans and troll campaigns.
We need objective and rational definitions of threat models. We need real mathematical analysis of the privacy provided. We need to define the monetary and resource costs required to undermine that privacy. We need rational scientific effort, not PR campaigns and slogans.
Without that, privacy for Bitcoin is not going anywhere.
Source: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/takes/privacy-shouldnt-be-a-product-stop-treating-it-like-one
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In other words, there is no need for wasabi or samurai for privacy?
It could be the reason mixers are more used than them. Bitcoin that was sent to a legacy wallet 14 years ago are still protected by privacy if it's not moved since.
We hit the wall when we submit KYC to any platform. But what about XMR. Isn't his considered a product itself just like BTC?
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It could be the reason mixers are more used than them. Bitcoin that was sent to a legacy wallet 14 years ago are still protected by privacy if it's not moved since.
And governments have always hunted the mixers, and it's law enforcement. Most of the time, I thought the mixers actually scam their users and run away with their user's funds, but the chipmixer seizure a couple of years ago confirms that not all the mixers are on the market to scam people. Coinomize has also been operating for a long time now. Probably, there will be more services that will operate for a long time till the government entity finds them and seizes them.
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It could be the reason mixers are more used than them. Bitcoin that was sent to a legacy wallet 14 years ago are still protected by privacy if it's not moved since.
And governments have always hunted the mixers, and it's law enforcement. Most of the time, I thought the mixers actually scam their users and run away with their user's funds, but the chipmixer seizure a couple of years ago confirms that not all the mixers are on the market to scam people. Coinomize has also been operating for a long time now. Probably, there will be more services that will operate for a long time till the government entity finds them and seizes them.
FYI, Mixers are not illegal still they can operate as they wish but the mixers were shutdown because they were found to be used to mix coins from hacked exchanges or the funds that involved any illegal activities. Privacy is a multiple layer that we can wish as per our needs, for someone who wants to stay private completely then Bitcoin is not an optimal choice for them since its pseudo anonymous not completely anonymous whereas not everyone is interested in that level of privacy they just don't want their recipient to know how much funds we have which is why they use CoinJoin or mixer to break the trail.
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FYI, Mixers are not illegal still they can operate as they wish but the mixers were shutdown because they were found to be used to mix coins from hacked exchanges or the funds that involved any illegal activities. Privacy is a multiple layer that we can wish as per our needs, for someone who wants to stay private completely then Bitcoin is not an optimal choice for them since its pseudo anonymous not completely anonymous whereas not everyone is interested in that level of privacy they just don't want their recipient to know how much funds we have which is why they use CoinJoin or mixer to break the trail.
It is on the gray side. Not red, Not green either. The mixing services know that. Even if it's not illegal, the mixers know that they will be seized by the authorities as soon as they find mixers location or any clue about the service. The mixers have no way to check where those coins came from. They do not filter coins that came from hacks.
Bitcoin provides privacy only if you stay anonymous. If you do not stay anonymous, then it can't. It is up to the users of Bitcoin to provide privacy.
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FYI, Mixers are not illegal still they can operate as they wish but the mixers were shutdown because they were found to be used to mix coins from hacked exchanges or the funds that involved any illegal activities. Privacy is a multiple layer that we can wish as per our needs, for someone who wants to stay private completely then Bitcoin is not an optimal choice for them since its pseudo anonymous not completely anonymous whereas not everyone is interested in that level of privacy they just don't want their recipient to know how much funds we have which is why they use CoinJoin or mixer to break the trail.
It is on the gray side. Not red, Not green either. The mixing services know that. Even if it's not illegal, the mixers know that they will be seized by the authorities as soon as they find mixers location or any clue about the service. The mixers have no way to check where those coins came from. They do not filter coins that came from hacks.
Bitcoin provides privacy only if you stay anonymous. If you do not stay anonymous, then it can't. It is up to the users of Bitcoin to provide privacy.
Authorities may not say mixers are illegal it's they obviously are trying prosecute them. Mixers provides anonymity to the coins added in a pool and then moved to a wallet.
If a hacked coins are mixed then it's obviously going to be untraceable after that. They couldn't get that hackers while coins can be spent, there is no way authorities will approved this and the action they'd take is likely to see mixers as accomplice.
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If a hacked coins are mixed then it's obviously going to be untraceable after that. They couldn't get that hackers while coins can be spent, there is no way authorities will approved this and the action they'd take is likely to see mixers as accomplice.
The mixer does not know if a certain coin came from a hack. They cannot filter a specific mixing to detect hacked coins. If they do and their customers know they are going to do something like this, then the customers are not going to use their service. So, mixers are not going to do something like that.
For this reason, when the authorities find that a specific mixer was used to mix that hacked coin, they hunt down that mixer service. But the thing is, a mixer is just a tool and they are not related o these hacks. I believe the authorities know this.
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Moving from a completely centralized system where the government and the bank know all your details to a decentralized system where you control all your coins and no one can freeze them takes some time so you will find many people willing to complete KYC without any problems.
When CBDC comes people will understand the importance of Bitcoin.
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interesting thread. the problem is :
(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2025/01/23/WvzCf.png)
does anyone want this to happen where they live?
of course not so all governments say this is our reason for kyc
We simply can't get around this act and it will be used to oppress us all no matter where we live or what country we are in.
If you do not want to reveal that you have 20 btc open 5 wallets with 16btc and 1btc and 1btc and 1btc and 1 btc,
It is sad but true that kyc will not go away any time soon.