Altcoins Talks - Cryptocurrency Forum
Crypto Discussion Forum => Forum related => Topic started by: Findingnemo on September 17, 2024, 05:27:09 PM
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We knew that Karma log is not visible for anyone to avoid drama related to sending negative Karma which all understandable but how about we have a system like which we can see how much karma we send in the last 30/60days and that will be only accessible by the user not by anyone else that doesn't contradicting with the reason why Karma is not public but also will help us to analyze whether we are using the Karma effectively.
Because we can't keep count when lot of things are going on so I feel it will be a good effective method and harmless to anyone.
Let's hear your opinions about this from community members.
Also don't forget the vote the poll. ;)
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I will prefer the karma to be seen by everybody so that the karma will not be abused. Karma can easily be abuse which is the reason we should be able to see it.
But I noticed that people on Bitcointalk are here and they are posting in a good way. I do not think there is any need for this but if we can see everybody's karma, it will be good.
As for your suggestion, I do not like it. Why should the person be the only one to see it without other people seeing it. I do not think it is a good idea.
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I will prefer the karma to be seen by everybody so that the karma will not be abused. Karma can easily be abuse which is the reason we should be able to see it.
It's true that it's very easy to abuse karma, fortunately it's even easier to catch those who do so and revoke their issuance. From a mod perspective it's generally better to "give someone enough rope", so that they can expose themselves as an abuser or cheater and can be punished sooner, rather than going under the radar until they are eventually caught, which can sometimes take years.
The main reason to avoid open karma logs is to avoid more retaliatory abuse of karma. As for the original proposal I don't really see the benefit.
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The main reason to avoid open karma logs is to avoid more retaliatory abuse of karma. As for the original proposal I don't really see the benefit.
I'm not criticizing the admin or moderators; they're doing their best. However, since many BTT members relocated here, I've noticed significant improvements on Altcoinstalks compared to years ago.Now, with the increased membership, I think it's challenging for admins and mods to detect all karma system abusers.
Making the karma log public would deter abusers, as they'd know everyone can see their activity. Similar to BTT's merit system, transparency helps reduce abuse. If members can see who sends and receives karma, it would Encourage quality posts.if I receive karma for a post, I'll create more engaging content on that topic.Public logs would help identify and address negative karma abuse.
I propose making the karma log visible to everyone to promote healthy engagement and quality content.
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As for the original proposal I don't really see the benefit.
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I wish for the Karma to be visible for everyone but admin insisted about that already so it's off the table and I am never gonna bring it anymore but this isn't about the karma received, it's just about whether we use the system effectively because we need some kind of remember for most of the things or else it will just go unattended.
In case I am not that clear give you a better example, it's like we get to see which post we merited (not our posts that received merits).
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The main reason to avoid open karma logs is to avoid more retaliatory abuse of karma. As for the original proposal I don't really see the benefit.
Now, with the increased membership, I think it's challenging for admins and mods to detect all karma system abusers.
As I said, it's really not. The logs are pretty straightforward to analyse, smiting much less difficult also as not that much of it, but I don't expect you to take my word for it either.
Making the karma log public would deter abusers, as they'd know everyone can see their activity.
Again as a mod not interested in deterring abusers, because those who want to abuse the system generally want to abuse the forum rules as well, and they more often than not will find a way to do so without easily being detected. Allowing them to abuse the system means they can be caught much easier and quicker, as they are more likely to think that they can get away with it without karma logs being public.
If members can see who sends and receives karma, it would Encourage quality posts.if I receive karma for a post, I'll create more engaging content on that topic.Public logs would help identify and address negative karma abuse.
This comes back to an alternative proposal of identifying posts that have received positive or negative karma, without identifying the issuer, which I am all in favour of, and was something admin was previously working on. We don't need to know who issued the karma to know that a post was considered useful or otherwise a post was considered spam.
I'm not criticizing the admin or moderators; they're doing their best.
You're otherwise welcome to criticise admin or mods :)
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I am yet to understand how seeing the sent karma log will help one to use the karma effectively. How will it help?
- To enable you track who you send karma to?
- Or to know if you are over giving or over receiving karma?
I am of the opinion that we should just leave the karma system the way it is until when it's time for readjustment.
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Or to know if you are over giving or over receiving karma?
I can see this being useful, but I don't think the urgency is that high since there is no limit on how much karma we can give iirc. Other than that I don't think I'll need this feature that much. I don't particularly look at who posts a post when I want to give karma. Given enough time I'll notice the good posters anyway, so I don't need to track whom I gave karma to.
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- To enable you track who you send karma to?
- Or to know if you are over giving or over receiving karma?
To know I am giving karma at all, because we can identify the good posters for sure but there is no indication of whatsoever whether we gave karma at all because we may forget to give and there are also times we could be given negative karma instead of positive due to fat fingers like me.
And also I believe it will help us the opportunity to analyse our spending nature that can be altered if we find its needed but with the current system we have no idea at all.
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Have seen this mentioned before, and my response is same, I'd like it. I receive karma received notification and I feel elated, I would like to know which post received the karma, so I can look at it a few times and feel good about myself, lol.
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Have seen this mentioned before, and my response is same, I'd like it. I receive karma received notification and I feel elated, I would like to know which post received the karma, so I can look at it a few times and feel good about myself, lol.
Yeah so that you can easily learn from those mistakes. Because if you can't see your wrong are you going to make things right, what I mean is that the chances of us repeating that same mistake is high because we don't know where we literally go wrong. So with karma being visible will be easy to detect those that abuse it also with those mistakes one has made without knowing.
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Have seen this mentioned before, and my response is same, I'd like it. I receive karma received notification and I feel elated, I would like to know which post received the karma, so I can look at it a few times and feel good about myself, lol.
This is nice and making sense, quite different from what Op is requesting. Knowing my post that recieved karma be it positive or negative will help me improve on the positive posts and reduce the type of posts that get me negative karma.
But having to know my karma log will help me by no means. This is because I give karma according to the quality of post, so I might not even want to know the posts or users I give karma, but the karma receiver might want to know.
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The main reason to avoid open karma logs is to avoid more retaliatory abuse of karma. As for the original proposal I don't really see the benefit.
Making karma visible may even increase post quality.
People will know which posts are considered the best for the community , and make more posts like that
Positive feedback is important so people know how they can really improve themselves
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I'm not in favour of everyone having access to the karma log. An insight into who gave to whom - karma would certainly be a good training ground for dramas and faith.
Given that there are rare cases when a karma review is needed, the admin and moderators handle it easily and that is quite enough.
Showing how many + or - karma points a certain post has received could probably help in identifying good and bad posts.
Also, I don't see a particular purpose in having information on how many karma points I have given if I have them 'unlimited'. Unlimited I mean that we are not conditioned to earn them like merit on Btt
In the end, a lot depends on the admin and how much it is possible to improve the karma system in that direction.
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It is technically challenging to implement the code required to display karma. It does not come natively with Simple Machine Forum software, which is to say that it's not supported and must be implemented yourself with custom code. That's how it was done on the other forum, although this time there is the technical challenge of list everyone who has sent a karma to someone else. That data is inside the forum's database but I think it must be filtered first.
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It is technically challenging to implement the code required to display karma. It does not come natively with Simple Machine Forum software, which is to say that it's not supported and must be implemented yourself with custom code. That's how it was done on the other forum, although this time there is the technical challenge of list everyone who has sent a karma to someone else. That data is inside the forum's database but I think it must be filtered first.
This is what should be kept in mind when making various requests. I assume that the biggest challenge is to do any kind of innovation without impairing the functionality of the forum. I believe that the reason why Btt remained on the outdated version of SMF is in many customizations and some subsequent changes may cause additional malfunctions.
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OP posted the intention on why he created the discussion so I voted for yes, so I will use what is
intended to be and this is to analyze how I give my karma to everyone.
If there is modification software like this, I voted for it to be added, but every forum has its own ways, and I'm sure admins wants to differentiate themselves to other and they don't want to be a copy paste of the other forums.
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The main reason to avoid open karma logs is to avoid more retaliatory abuse of karma. As for the original proposal I don't really see the benefit.
Making karma visible may even increase post quality.
People will know which posts are considered the best for the community , and make more posts like that
Making it known which posts receive karma could certainly do this, opening karma logs does nothing to benefit this by comparison.
Positive feedback is important so people know how they can really improve themselves
Likewise with negative karma, it would help users to avoid making mistakes that lead to it.
But this comes back to the issue of difficulty in implementing such a change...
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"Freemind you spend the day saying the same thing when we talk about Karma"... I know some of you may think that phrase when reading this post that not making Karma logs public is avoiding a lot of unnecessary problems and confrontations that would only create a bad atmosphere on the forum. Matters related to karma (abuse) will be resolved by the administrator or someone designated by the administrator.
Believe me when I tell you that opening the logs would only be problems and more problems.
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Believe me when I tell you that opening the logs would only be problems and more problems.
Well, making it public was not my request. It's just about making it visible only for who send it so the user who received will have no idea so there will be no drama related to Karma and I wanted this to see for myself just to make sure I am using the Karma enough because it's easy to forget to use karma even if we wanted to and having some kind of data regarding how much we sent will help through this. But I understand it can be difficult to implement but if possible I would want it.
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Well, making it public was not my request. It's just about making it visible only for who send it so the user who received will have no idea so there will be no drama related to Karma and I wanted this to see for myself just to make sure I am using the Karma enough because it's easy to forget to use karma even if we wanted to and having some kind of data regarding how much we sent will help through this. But I understand it can be difficult to implement but if possible I would want it.
I understand it, but as you say, not only the implementation could be a problem, but also all the possible errors that it could cause in the forum, such as crashes for example. That's why the admin is not currently working on the Karma counter that would appear on all posts. It was a good idea, but it was finally discarded precisely because of the number of hours of work it required but above all because of the implementation problems. There is no simple solution that can satisfy all users, however, the more possible ideas we provide, the sooner we can work on the most appropriate one.
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But this comes back to the issue of difficulty in implementing such a change...
I am sure admin is capable.
With the list of posts which receive karma and the post ID, I can create a browser extension to do that in a few hours.
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I am sure admin is capable.
With the list of posts which receive karma and the post ID, I can create a browser extension to do that in a few hours.
It is not just about the technical complexity it may have, as I said in my previous post, it is about the imbalances that it can create in the forum for many reasons and the problems that arise from this. The administrator would have to do a lot of testing and that, in the worst case, can translate into hours (or more) with the forum down.
Posts like yours make my day because of the willingness and desire to improve the forum.
+2.
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But this comes back to the issue of difficulty in implementing such a change...
I am sure admin is capable.
With the list of posts which receive karma and the post ID, I can create a browser extension to do that in a few hours.
the issue is the karma system is not linked to the posts but the users, linking the karma to the posts is a whole lot of work
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the issue is the karma system is not linked to the posts but the users, linking the karma to the posts is a whole lot of work
Now that you mentioned it, it's probably a problem and those problems (linking karma to posts) cannot be resolved. I thought it's possible since there is msg_id (m=xxx) parameter when clicking the karma button/anchor.
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the issue is the karma system is not linked to the posts but the users, linking the karma to the posts is a whole lot of work
Now that you mentioned it, it's probably a problem and those problems (linking karma to posts) cannot be resolved. I thought it's possible since there is msg_id (m=xxx) parameter when clicking the karma button/anchor.
I have seen admin saying he knew to which post someone gave negative karma. So probably it is not simple, but doable. Maybe some joins or something like that...
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the issue is the karma system is not linked to the posts but the users, linking the karma to the posts is a whole lot of work
Now that you mentioned it, it's probably a problem and those problems (linking karma to posts) cannot be resolved. I thought it's possible since there is msg_id (m=xxx) parameter when clicking the karma button/anchor.
I have seen admin saying he knew to which post someone gave negative karma. So probably it is not simple, but doable. Maybe some joins or something like that...
no we have no info concerning the post associated with the karma
here's how it looks like
(https://i.imgur.com/f3xPCTf.png)
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I have seen admin saying he knew to which post someone gave negative karma. So probably it is not simple, but doable. Maybe some joins or something like that...
no we have no info concerning the post associated with the karma
here's how it looks like
(https://i.imgur.com/f3xPCTf.png)
Ah yeah, no doubt.
A modification can be done and it will be possible as just like i said topic_id and msg_id is seen in parameters when clicking +-karma.
Like this below.
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=modifykarma;sa=applaud;uid=1;topic=324388.15;m=1631678;xxx=xxx
So adding this two topic_id (topic) and msg_id (m) for new columns. Post data to insert in db, would be possible only for the future sending karma.
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Post data to insert in db, would be possible only for the future sending karma.
This is certainly an acceptable solution. Over time, quality posts will stand out.
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Post data to insert in db, would be possible only for the future sending karma.
This is certainly an acceptable solution. Over time, quality posts will stand out.
Sad that the past history would be lost. But as admin said, looks like karma history with post id doesn't exist...
I think this is very important, and should be implemented so we can see which posts are the best ones and receive most karma
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Because we can't keep count when lot of things are going on so I feel it will be a good effective method and harmless to anyone.
Let's hear your opinions about this from community members.
Also don't forget the vote the poll. ;)
I will prefer karma log to visible when there will not the negative karma other wise what ever we say that forum will not be either a friendly community. But yes negative karma features can be kept only based on certain positions like moderators can give or D.team can give.
Moreover, if the logs of positive karma and negative karma are made visible to everyone, then only a proxy revenge game will continue here, which will not end and spoil the beautiful environment of the forum. So I also want the karma log to be visible in the forum but by removing the negative karma features.
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I will prefer karma log to visible when there will not the negative karma other wise what ever we say that forum will not be either a friendly community. But yes negative karma features can be kept only based on certain positions like moderators can give or D.team can give.
Moreover, if the logs of positive karma and negative karma are made visible to everyone, then only a proxy revenge game will continue here, which will not end and spoil the beautiful environment of the forum. So I also want the karma log to be visible in the forum but by removing the negative karma features.
I don't know what you think, but I see that there is more or less a good atmosphere in the forum, leaving aside some small sparks that soon fade away. And that is precisely in part because Karma logs are not allowed to be public. I also think that making public only positive logs would be incoherent, since we would only show a world of roses and wine.
I think the administrator is not impartial in this matter, since he has said on several occasions that they will not be public. I totally agree with him.
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I don't know what you think, but I see that there is more or less a good atmosphere in the forum, leaving aside some small sparks that soon fade away. And that is precisely in part because Karma logs are not allowed to be public. I also think that making public only positive logs would be incoherent, since we would only show a world of roses and wine.
I think the administrator is not impartial in this matter, since he has said on several occasions that they will not be public. I totally agree with him.
I respect the administrator's decision and want to say that since the topic is open and the discussion is going on here, I have expressed my opinion that if it makes the karma logs visible to everyone, it would be better not to have the negative karma option. I don't know if karma logs will be made visible in the future, but I still have this opinion that if karma logs are done, it would be better not to keep the negative karma features.
Because the features of this forum are currently seen as friendly but the negative karma features can create personal conflict if they are visible. Now the administrator can explain why he is not making it visible. If it brings something bad for the community, I will support him.
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I respect the administrator's decision and want to say that since the topic is open and the discussion is going on here, I have expressed my opinion that if it makes the karma logs visible to everyone, it would be better not to have the negative karma option. I don't know if karma logs will be made visible in the future, but I still have this opinion that if karma logs are done, it would be better not to keep the negative karma features.
Because the features of this forum are currently seen as friendly but the negative karma features can create personal conflict if they are visible. Now the administrator can explain why he is not making it visible. If it brings something bad for the community, I will support him.
Both positive and negative karma will have a similar effect, each in its own way. If possible, it would be good to have such an opportunity. There is no need to see who gave whom a karma point, but only how much + or - karma a certain post received
The option of visibility of karma points on the post is not part of the current system and in order to enable it, it is necessary to modify the existing code. So it's not about the admin not wanting to check the 'enable karma' checkbox, the matter is more complicated.
An excellent example is Reddit, where you can see only the number of karma points, but not who gave them. Accounts with a large number of positive karma write useful or at least interesting content for sure.
Recently, X (ex-Twitter) also removed the possibility of public inspection of who liked a certain post.
Some examples that work, and you should follow them, there is no need to invent hot water.
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There is way that the log can be visible and the sender name would not be seen. It is only the post the Karma was given and as the Op said, let the earned Karmas of 30, 90 , 120, and 150 days karma log should be visible so that we know if we are doing well in the month or within the 90 days. This as been on discussion in different threads but it seen that, that cannot help and the decision of the admin is okay for everyone because he knows the best way out.
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An excellent example is Reddit, where you can see only the number of karma points, but not who gave them. Accounts with a large number of positive karma write useful or at least interesting content for sure.
Recently, X (ex-Twitter) also removed the possibility of public inspection of who liked a certain post.
Some examples that work, and you should follow them, there is no need to invent hot water.
You have a nice suggestion and point here. I the past when I created a thread concerning karma and seeing who sent you karma and stuff like that, if I can remember clearly one of the I think board moderator of so made mention that the hidden karma details is actually to prevent fights and enemity especially in the case of negative Karma. And in that case people can easily send any of both positive or negative Karma.
However the number of karma a post has accumulated would be nice as it can even help members spot very useful and important posts. Also on the side of the OP of the thread he would be able to attend least tell which of the contributions on the forum that he actually earned that karma from.
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I respect the administrator's decision and want to say that since the topic is open and the discussion is going on here, I have expressed my opinion that if it makes the karma logs visible to everyone, it would be better not to have the negative karma option. I don't know if karma logs will be made visible in the future, but I still have this opinion that if karma logs are done, it would be better not to keep the negative karma features.
Because the features of this forum are currently seen as friendly but the negative karma features can create personal conflict if they are visible. Now the administrator can explain why he is not making it visible. If it brings something bad for the community, I will support him.
I assure you that I think it's great that you express your opinion on this topic, that's what the forum is for, in fact, the more opinions and points of view we have, the better we will understand and approach things, but as I said, I understand that the administrator is not flexible on this issue. I know that you have read on several occasions that this is a friendly forum, and that is how I see it, but that does not mean that we do not have a tool like negative Karma to "punish" in some way the users who repeatedly break the rules, among other types of uses.
I think the administrator has already explained the reasons on more than one occasion, so I don't think he will do it again.
~snip~
The option of visibility of karma points on the post is not part of the current system and in order to enable it, it is necessary to modify the existing code. So it's not about the admin not wanting to check the 'enable karma' checkbox, the matter is more complicated.
The admin talked yesterday about what you mention and it seems like it takes a lot of testing to get it to work without errors.
Karma associated to post (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=324891.0).
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I will say that its better that we have the karma to be anonymous as it was, because some will be interested in knowing who and who are giving them positive or negative karma and that alone can raise for sentiment between members, then we may also be surprised in knowing how some members are earning their karma and from the posts which it was being given to them, some things were better off our sights to avoid issues.
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I will say that its better that we have the karma to be anonymous as it was, because some will be interested in knowing who and who are giving them positive or negative karma and that alone can raise for sentiment between members, then we may also be surprised in knowing how some members are earning their karma and from the posts which it was being given to them, some things were better off our sights to avoid issues.
Precisely because of what you say, Karma logs (positive and negative) will not be made public. The problems that would be created would be much more serious than the positive things that could be achieved. That's why I always say the same thing when we talk about Karma. It is better to leave things as they are to avoid problems. In any case, I know that there will be users who will insist on making the logs public, in this thread or in others.
Focusing on improving the forum is the best thing we can do to keep it growing.
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agree with the opinion that showing the number of positive or negative karma that the post gets without knowing who gave negative or positive karma, this will reduce the drama of abusing the system a lot and at the same time the post owner knows whether he writes well or badly.
However, if the moderator sees that it is better not to show karma on the post, it is possible for each member to have the option to see his karma log, I think this will be very useful for the member to know the posts that received positive or negative karma because this helps improve the quality of writing and avoid mistakes.
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agree with the opinion that showing the number of positive or negative karma that the post gets without knowing who gave negative or positive karma, this will reduce the drama of abusing the system a lot and at the same time the post owner knows whether he writes well or badly.
However, if the moderator sees that it is better not to show karma on the post, it is possible for each member to have the option to see his karma log, I think this will be very useful for the member to know the posts that received positive or negative karma because this helps improve the quality of writing and avoid mistakes.
The problem with what you say (as I said in one of my previous posts) is the difficulty of implementing the idea of seeing Karma in each post, since as the administrator said (you can read it in the post that I leave below) he have had a lot of problems with the tests he have done so far and currently doing more tests would take up a lot of time that he need for other things. Therefore the idea is put on hold until the administrator has more time.
Karma associated to post (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=324891.0).
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I will prefer the karma to be seen by everybody so that the karma will not be abused. Karma can easily be abuse which is the reason we should be able to see it.
Yes it is true but there is also a negative side. Because there is an option of -karma so if it is visible then if someone gives negative karma to someone there will be a chaos in this forum due to which some may become personal enemies. So if it is decided to make the karma issue possible then the -karma option should be omitted. Then only +karma should be there like merit of btt forum. Then it will be good and if someone does avue it will also be caught very easily. I think there should be something like that
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We knew that Karma log is not visible for anyone to avoid drama related to sending negative Karma which all understandable but how about we have a system like which we can see how much karma we send in the last 30/60days and that will be only accessible by the user not by anyone else that doesn't contradicting with the reason why Karma is not public but also will help us to analyze whether we are using the Karma effectively.
Because we can't keep count when lot of things are going on so I feel it will be a good effective method and harmless to anyone.
Let's hear your opinions about this from community members.
Also don't forget the vote the poll. ;)
As much as I think and find the idea to be a really good one, I still took the last option in the pool, and this is because I don't see any way this feature stand to benefit the user or the forum in general, and besides, such a feature can actually be built by capable users as an external information site for this forum, like we have on bitcointalk with bpip and ninjastic.
Only thing is, information on sent and received karma for every user becomes public, and I think that is more beneficial for us, since we get to actually know the users who are only bent on recieving karma, and never willing to also give out.
I think I will create a thread on this much later when this thread must have been buried, I consider this a very important feature for us all to consider.
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I think Karma should be visible for users. Then it will be more transparent. Now we we are seeing many people farming Karma. They are creating team informing Karma with each other. And some people giving negative Karma without any reason I think. I am old member in this from I know about from rules. And i follow rules. But I think regularly giving me negative Karma. When send Karma will be visible then we will able to understand why I get positive Karma or negative karma.
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I think Karma should be visible for users. Then it will be more transparent. Now we we are seeing many people farming Karma. They are creating team informing Karma with each other. And some people giving negative Karma without any reason I think. I am old member in this from I know about from rules. And i follow rules. But I think regularly giving me negative Karma. When send Karma will be visible then we will able to understand why I get positive Karma or negative karma.
The solution to potential problems arising from Karma abuse is not to make public who the offending user is or who the victim is. The solution is for the administrator, judges and moderators to sanction the offender or offenders and return the Karma to the affected user. I know I always say the same thing about this and I will continue to say it because I believe it is the least toxic way to maintain a friendly environment on the forum.
Although many users think otherwise, making Karma visible would only bring confrontations and meaningless discussions.