✔️ Thormixer.io - Bitcoin Mixer | BTC Tumbler | Anonymous | NO LOGS | NO JS

[dkbit98]

It was as if chipmixer monopolized the industry. They were widely trusted and most times fee-less and depended on tippings. Apart from people discovering how lucrative mixing service could be after the exit of chipmixer, many didn't also have the money to compete with the big fish.

Chipmixer didn't monopolized anything, they simply had no mandatory fees for using their mixing service (except donations), and it's not so easy to compete with that.
Other mixers existed even during chipmixer era, and I think there are other decent mixers that are available today.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

It was as if chipmixer monopolized the industry. They were widely trusted and most times fee-less and depended on tippings. Apart from people discovering how lucrative mixing service could be after the exit of chipmixer, many didn't also have the money to compete with the big fish.

Chipmixer didn't monopolized anything, they simply had no mandatory fees for using their mixing service (except donations), and it's not so easy to compete with that.
Other mixers existed even during chipmixer era, and I think there are other decent mixers that are available today.

I think the both of you said, or are saying the same thing basically, the difference is in kingsden's misappropriation of the word "monoploze", or should I say misuse.

You are right going by the dictionary meaning or definition of monopoly, chipmixer indeed, did not monopolize the bitcoin mixing market, they simply managed to grow their mixer business to a height were no other mixer at the time; could reach and compete with them, their popularity and userbase in the industry made it look like they were the only mixer in existence at that time, this is not monopoly, saying chipmixer monopolized the bitcoin mixing industry is like saying that bitcoin has monoplized the crypto market going by its dominance and market cap, which we all know is not true.

[KingsDen]

It was as if chipmixer monopolized the industry. They were widely trusted and most times fee-less and depended on tippings. Apart from people discovering how lucrative mixing service could be after the exit of chipmixer, many didn't also have the money to compete with the big fish.

Chipmixer didn't monopolized anything, they simply had no mandatory fees for using their mixing service (except donations), and it's not so easy to compete with that.
Other mixers existed even during chipmixer era, and I think there are other decent mixers that are available today.

We both said the same thing here;

• It was as if Chipmixer monopolized the industry doesn't mean Chipmixer actually did, but it dominated.
• They had no mandatory fees for using their mixing service (except donations), is the same thing as I said above that "they operate fee-less and depended on tippings).

However, after the exit of chipmixer, it seems mixers started having issues than before.

[dkbit98]

Well now that ChipMixer is gone I would love to see if anyone can create a tool that can have estimate what mixers are currently most used in the world.
I know this is not an easy thing to do, but maybe we can check number of visits, available coins, number of transactions from confirmed addresses, etc.
I don't know how ThorMixer would stand in this rating, but I would love to see something like that.

[Lucius]

~snip~
However, after the exit of chipmixer, it seems mixers started having issues than before.

Do you mean that more focus from various agencies is directed at them? Maybe there is some truth in that, considering that until then mixers probably had the status of some kind of impenetrability, and when it turned out to be the opposite, it was obvious that there was a fear of who is next.

I think that the ideal way of working for mixers would be for them to try to find a balance between offering their service to everyone, but with a move away from those funds that come from publicly denounced illegal actions, which then cause them to get into trouble.

The authorities are not so interested in the fact that an individual buys BTC and then sends it to mixers, but that the bad guys launder huge amounts of money from hacking and scams through it.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Well now that ChipMixer is gone I would love to see if anyone can create a tool that can have estimate what mixers are currently most used in the world.
I know this is not an easy thing to do, but maybe we can check number of visits, available coins, number of transactions from confirmed addresses, etc.
I don't know how ThorMixer would stand in this rating, but I would love to see something like that.

Such a tool can only be possible to develop in theory, but not possible practically, and this is because when it comes to trying to find out which mixer is mostly used, it is possible to use the number of website visitors on monthly bases, such tool is already available which I believe you already know, but then visiting the site does not translate to using the service the site provides, and when it comes to trying to find out the inflow and outflow of funds in and from mixer wallets, this is impossible because mixers don't make use of one wallet for all users, and by this, I mean they provide different wallet address for different users who want to deposit funds to be mixed, so, it's absolutely impossible to tell which mixers are mostly used except mixers come together to release the usage data to their customers, then and only then can we be able to tell which mixer is the most used of all that currently exist.

[KingsDen]

~snip~
However, after the exit of chipmixer, it seems mixers started having issues than before.

Do you mean that more focus from various agencies is directed at them? Maybe there is some truth in that, considering that until then mixers probably had the status of some kind of impenetrability, and when it turned out to be the opposite, it was obvious that there was a fear of who is next.

Truth, when I greeted this industry, I had that false impression that mixers are untouchable, not until chipmixer was bashed. I have just come to the conclusion that all mixers are sinners in the eyes of the government. They come after you anytime.

I think that the ideal way of working for mixers would be for them to try to find a balance between offering their service to everyone, but with a move away from those funds that come from publicly denounced illegal actions, which then cause them to get into trouble.

The huge money they make is from these publicly denounced illegal sources. How will they balance this?

The authorities are not so interested in the fact that an individual buys BTC and then sends it to mixers, but that the bad guys launder huge amounts of money from hacking and scams through it.

Total privacy doesn't differentiate between these two. A notorious criminal might claim they are just security their privacy. Mixers making more moves to differentiate will at a time contradict the purpose of their existence.

[God Of Thunder]

Well now that ChipMixer is gone I would love to see if anyone can create a tool that can have estimate what mixers are currently most used in the world.
I know this is not an easy thing to do, but maybe we can check number of visits, available coins, number of transactions from confirmed addresses, etc.
I don't know how ThorMixer would stand in this rating, but I would love to see something like that.

I guess mixers do not release these data in public. Showing the visitor counter is okay. But, I don't think any mixers will disclose the amount they have and the number of mixes they have done. Even if they provide the numbers, you never know if it's real or not. Because we need blockchain data to verify and mixers are not going to share the transaction hash due to privacy reasons. If Mixers agrees to provide the estimated number, you never know if it's the real data. They can say we have a thousand mixes every day and there is no way you can verify this. I am not sure if you were talking about this or it's just my misunderstanding.

[examplens]

Well now that ChipMixer is gone I would love to see if anyone can create a tool that can have estimate what mixers are currently most used in the world.
I know this is not an easy thing to do, but maybe we can check number of visits, available coins, number of transactions from confirmed addresses, etc.
I don't know how ThorMixer would stand in this rating, but I would love to see something like that.

I guess mixers do not release these data in public. Showing the visitor counter is okay. But, I don't think any mixers will disclose the amount they have and the number of mixes they have done.

Wouldn't this be in contradiction with what all mixers promise, complete anonymity and "not saving" data on mixing orders. For there to be any statistics, data would have to be collected. Likewise, if all transactions were recognizable as part of the mixer, then again the very purpose of the mixer service would be useless.

I guess maybe Jambler could give some info about which of their partners is the most active.

[tvplus006]

...But, I don't think any mixers will disclose the amount they have and the number of mixes they have done. Even if they provide the numbers, you never know if it's real or not. Because we need blockchain data to verify and mixers are not going to share the transaction hash due to privacy reasons. ..

Given the fact that a new address is generated for each mixing, no one except the company's employees will be able to know the true number of transactions and the amount of Bitcoins being mixing. And this, among other things, ensures confidentiality.

[Lucius]

I think that the ideal way of working for mixers would be for them to try to find a balance between offering their service to everyone, but with a move away from those funds that come from publicly denounced illegal actions, which then cause them to get into trouble.

The huge money they make is from these publicly denounced illegal sources. How will they balance this?

I would not agree that most coins come from "bad sources", because if that were the case, the pressure on all mixers would be much greater, and that would result in the fact that we would most likely not be able to publicly discuss them here. Most of those who use them do not have bad intentions, their only motive is to protect their privacy.

The authorities are not so interested in the fact that an individual buys BTC and then sends it to mixers, but that the bad guys launder huge amounts of money from hacking and scams through it.

Total privacy doesn't differentiate between these two. A notorious criminal might claim they are just security their privacy. Mixers making more moves to differentiate will at a time contradict the purpose of their existence.

A criminal cannot be in the same position as someone who legally bought BTC, because he is in the position of wanting to hide the origin of the coins he acquired illegally, there is no justification for that. As far as I know, no mixer has publicly announced that the purpose of its existence is to be a service through which criminals will pass stolen funds in order to launder them.

I was just thinking of a way that would enable them to divert the attention of the authorities from themselves - if of course it is not something along the lines of what you mentioned, in which case it is easier to let things take their course.

[God Of Thunder]

Wouldn't this be in contradiction with what all mixers promise, complete anonymity and "not saving" data on mixing orders. For there to be any statistics, data would have to be collected. Likewise, if all transactions were recognizable as part of the mixer, then again the very purpose of the mixer service would be useless.

I guess maybe Jambler could give some info about which of their partners is the most active.

I agree. Most mixers offer no logs and privacy. If mixers do not collect information, they cannot share the stats. Even if they share, I don't think there is any way we can verify their claims without blockchain data. Yes, this will be a contradiction then because they are supposed to provide you privacy and not share any of their data.

As for Jambler, yeah, they could probably share the stats, and I believe they won't take the side of any particular mixer to prove themselves the most active mixer because all of them are Jambler's partners.

[MrSpasybo]

I agree. Most mixers offer no logs and privacy. If mixers do not collect information, they cannot share the stats. Even if they share, I don't think there is any way we can verify their claims without blockchain data. Yes, this will be a contradiction then because they are supposed to provide you privacy and not share any of their data.

As for Jambler, yeah, they could probably share the stats, and I believe they won't take the side of any particular mixer to prove themselves the most active mixer because all of them are Jambler's partners.

Mixers may not have user-specific logs, but aggregated statistics can still be calculated regarding average time, BTC cleanliness, or the volume of BTC mixed. Even if this data is shared or published, user anonymity remains unaffected, meaning that Mixers ensure their fundamental values.

Most Mixers have common principles to meet user needs. User choices can be based on speed and transaction fees, or sometimes simply usage habits. ThorMixer also has many loyal users and continues to attract new ones. For example, I am also researching and using ThorMixer as my preferred Mixer when I need to access the cleanest BTC.

[dkbit98]

when it comes to trying to find out the inflow and outflow of funds in and from mixer wallets, this is impossible because mixers don't make use of one wallet for all users

I know that but in past various services managed to identify main addresses used by different crypto mixers.
This is easier to do with Coinjoin and their coordinators, but for all of them this are only estimates, I am not expecting to get any precise numbers.
What I hope is to get some updates with mixers that could transform them into more decentralized services.

I guess mixers do not release these data in public.

This would be stupid from them, and without verification it would be based on nothing, only numbers on screen.

[God Of Thunder]

Most Mixers have common principles to meet user needs. User choices can be based on speed and transaction fees, or sometimes simply usage habits. ThorMixer also has many loyal users and continues to attract new ones. For example, I am also researching and using ThorMixer as my preferred Mixer when I need to access the cleanest BTC.

I do not use mixers regularly. But whenever I need to mix my Bitcoins, I check the fees they charge and what type of anonymity they provide. Most of the mixers offer no logs these days and promise to provide maximum privacy. Some mixers even offer zero-fee mixing services (I am not sure if there are any services that provide free services at this moment) and depend on donations. But I believe OG Bitcoiners always prefer Better service no matter what the fees are.

This would be stupid from them, and without verification it would be based on nothing, only numbers on screen.

Exactly. Just like how Centralized exchanges show numbers on our exchange account. The reality is, our account does not have any crypto but just some numbers.