EU is set to delagalise decentralised mixers

[pawel7777]

Topic says it all, in a not so unexpected move, the European Union pass the vote to ban mixing services and force crypto-business to implement more surveillance on their customers as part of the Anti-Money Laundering Regulation (AMLR).

Link1:
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2024/01/18/anti-money-laundering-council-and-parliament-strike-deal-on-stricter-rules/
Link2:
https://www.mapsplatis.com/news/crypto-assets/the-european-union-is-set-to-outlaw-decentralised-mixers-and-compel-cryptocurrency-firms-to-closely-monitor-users-dealing-a-significant-blow-to-the-anonymity-offered-by-decentralized-finance-defi/

In short:
- crypto-firms will be compelled to collect more data on users;
- anonymity services tools will be banned.

The legislation also prohibits the use of tools that enable anonymity, including privacy tokens. Additionally, offering crypto-mixing services, which obscure transaction history, will no longer be permitted. Obliged entities are required to verify the identity of users, monitor transactions, and gather more information about both senders and recipients.

For crypto transfers below €1,000, service providers must conduct basic KYC to authenticate their users. However, for transactions exceeding €1,000, customer due diligence measures are necessary, involving longer-term monitoring of user behavior and identity in addition to the standard KYC.

Apparently there was also an initiative to force offline wallet providers (aka non-custodial wallets) to do KYC checks on their users, but that was dropped. I suspect it could've been a tactic when they propose something ridiculous, so when it gets rejected people see it as a win and are no longer angry about all the other restrictions that have been passed.

As far as I understand all this, offering mixing services will be illegal, but using such services will not be outlawed.

[Lucius]

This is a completely logical sequence of events, considering that the EU, like the US, is very aggressive towards everything that is decentralized, and what's more, profitable. Everything they do actually leads to the complete establishment of control when it comes to cryptocurrencies, while on the other hand they completely turn their heads from the hundreds of billions that are laundered through banks and tax havens around the world.

All that they are doing will probably discourage part of the users who will give up investing in cryptocurrencies, while the rest will be treated as potential criminals in every transaction they want to make.

[ABCbits]

EU so quickly follow US action this time. I also wonder what counts as "tools that enable anonymity" in eyes of EU. Without clear definition, wallet which support using Tor connection could be covered.

All that they are doing will probably discourage part of the users who will give up investing in cryptocurrencies, while the rest will be treated as potential criminals in every transaction they want to make.

Or at least they want force people to invest on cryptocurrency through 3rd party. After all, Bitcoin ETF already exist on some Europe country.

[Lucius]

EU so quickly follow US action this time. I also wonder what counts as "tools that enable anonymity" in eyes of EU. Without clear definition, wallet which support using Tor connection could be covered.

The EU has been preparing for this for some time, but considering that such laws must go through the approval procedure in as many as 27 parliaments of national states, it is clear that it takes a very long time. Apart from that slowness or perhaps inefficiency, the EU is not much different from the US, which continues to have a strong influence on European policies.

All that they are doing will probably discourage part of the users who will give up investing in cryptocurrencies, while the rest will be treated as potential criminals in every transaction they want to make.

Or at least they want force people to invest on cryptocurrency through 3rd party. After all, Bitcoin ETF already exist on some Europe country.

The goal is to make investing in cryptocurrencies more difficult because everyone will have to undergo much more rigorous controls, which is not pleasant for anyone. However, it remains to be seen how all EU member states will react to this law, because even though there are laws that prevent money laundering through cryptocurrencies, not all member states apply them in the same way.

[TomPluz]

As far as I understand all this, offering mixing services will be illegal, but using such services will not be outlawed.

It means we can still use those mixing services but since operators are not allowed to provide such services then we will be left with no other option but to surface above and not anymore enjoy a greater level of anonymity. Actually this move by the European Union is nothing surprising at all as even the United Sates is also at war with Bitcoin mixers and many had been charged with money laundering charges before. I am expecting that there will be more restrictions coming from EU as it is at war with privacy in the name of going after funding for terrorism and again money laundering practices. What is so clear here is that the government is really at odds with anything that empower the people away from the prying eyes of them and they hate the idea that control has been reduced due to crypto-related technologies and options. Unfortunately, there is no stopping with this war and will only escalate for more.

[TomPluz]

What is so clear here is that the government is really at odds with anything that empower the people away from the prying eyes of them and they hate the idea that control has been reduced due to crypto-related technologies and options. Unfortunately, there is no stopping with this war and will only escalate for more.

And I think this is in reality even before the coming in of cryptocurrency...and now that there are now many tools people can use to hide their personal data and actions online the government is making sure that it would be hard for people to use them. In other words, the government wants to know everything that people are doing except when we are pooping and farting. In USA, the Biden government has been at odds with the cryptocurrency industry since Day One and this will not stop until Joe Biden is out of the White House and Gary Gensler driven out of SEC starting January 20. Nevertheless, there will always be some different views coming from the government most especially if those in power are paranoid and control freaks...am hoping the next US election can somehow diminish the influence of this kind of people who are holding the power.

[NotATether]

And I think this is in reality even before the coming in of cryptocurrency...and now that there are now many tools people can use to hide their personal data and actions online the government is making sure that it would be hard for people to use them. In other words, the government wants to know everything that people are doing except when we are pooping and farting. In USA, the Biden government has been at odds with the cryptocurrency industry since Day One and this will not stop until Joe Biden is out of the White House and Gary Gensler driven out of SEC starting January 20. Nevertheless, there will always be some different views coming from the government most especially if those in power are paranoid and control freaks...am hoping the next US election can somehow diminish the influence of this kind of people who are holding the power.

Why did you bump this? You made me think that this was something that happened yesterday, but it is actually old news from April that I am already aware of.

From what I see, nobody seems to care about the EU mixer "ban", as it does not include infrastructure for hosting cryptocurrency mixer software.

[Faisal2202]

Apparently there was also an initiative to force offline wallet providers (aka non-custodial wallets) to do KYC checks on their users, but that was dropped. I suspect it could've been a tactic when they propose something ridiculous, so when it gets rejected people see it as a win and are no longer angry about all the other restrictions that have been passed.

Haha nice concept they are putting people in the worst position and once that ends they don't complain about it while it's a good strategy by authorities and they do it on purpose for example in our country they increase prices let's say by 10$ and people will be like so angry but later they will decrease the price by $5 and people will be happy who knows they are not following the same method that store owners are doing on discount thing to sell the $100 thing by giving a discount of %10 and changing the price from $100 to $120 and saying now after %10 its $100 people will buy it happily because they think they are saving money haha.

I did not see this news before until now well I don't really care what they say but I don't think they can stop people from using a mixer until the mixer is not involved in some illicit activity what you think OP?

[target]

Apparently there was also an initiative to force offline wallet providers (aka non-custodial wallets) to do KYC checks on their users, but that was dropped. I suspect it could've been a tactic when they propose something ridiculous, so when it gets rejected people see it as a win and are no longer angry about all the other restrictions that have been passed.

Haha nice concept they are putting people in the worst position and once that ends they don't complain about it while it's a good strategy by authorities and they do it on purpose for example in our country they increase prices let's say by 10$ and people will be like so angry but later they will decrease the price by $5 and people will be happy who knows they are not following the same method that store owners are doing on discount thing to sell the $100 thing by giving a discount of %10 and changing the price from $100 to $120 and saying now after %10 its $100 people will buy it happily because they think they are saving money haha.

I did not see this news before until now well I don't really care what they say but I don't think they can stop people from using a mixer until the mixer is not involved in some illicit activity what you think OP?

The exchanges can identify whether the coins comes from mixers right?  The government may be able to use the exchanges to confiscate coins going to the exchanges when they suspect it undergoes mixing services.

They doesn't just stop to mixers. I reckon the dex also are going to be witch hunted by authorities.  On the other thread here we saw already they are going to implement the law by this year.

[hugeblack]

Why did you bump this? You made me think that this was something that happened yesterday, but it is actually old news from April that I am already aware of.

I thought that too. It would probably be better to automatically lock topics that are more than 120 days old or to prompt the user to double-click the post button with a warning that the reply should be something very useful.


The regulatory laws have become very specialized, indicating a deeper understanding of cryptocurrencies, which is a bad thing for those who want to maintain their privacy.

[bitterguy28]

Why did you bump this? You made me think that this was something that happened yesterday, but it is actually old news from April that I am already aware of.

I thought that too. It would probably be better to automatically lock topics that are more than 120 days old or to prompt the user to double-click the post button with a warning that the reply should be something very useful.

well that is just subjective how is anyone supposed to know whether your reply will be useful or not and there are people who can actually provide some more insight about the topic on hand what i will recommend though is to have a separate section where it shows you when it was first posted by op and then when was the last reply this way everyone knows immediately that it did not just happen recently but someone just bumped the post

[target]

It very confusing when it say illegalize mixers but not outlawed. Because it might just xepends on who used the mixer. If its someone they know who has friends from up there then they are safe. No courtcase possibly.

As old as this thread may be, this will still be relevant here in the forum since this I think is the only platform where mixers are allowed to be promoted.

[NotATether]

As old as this thread may be, this will still be relevant here in the forum since this I think is the only platform where mixers are allowed to be promoted.

It's not the only platform that allows promotion of mixers, not by a long stretch.

But I guess it's the largest website that allows that, seeing that the alternatives are to go to bits.media or to some shady darknet websites which also coincidentally allow the advertisements belonging to drugs.

And we don't do that here, right?

There is also Nostr where they can promote their stuff but I don't know if anyone actually reads those posts.