BRICS+

[Peter90]

The Coming Of BRICS+ Decentralized Monetary Ecosystem

Get ready for what may well be the geoeconomic bombshell of 2024: the coming of a decentralized monetary ecosystem.
Welcome to The Unit  – a concept that has already been discussed by the financial services and investments working group set up by the BRICS+ Business Council and has a serious shot at becoming official BRICS+ policy as early as in 2025.

The strength of the Unit, conceptually, is to remove direct dependency on the currency of other nations, and to offer especially to the Global Majority a new form of apolitical money - with huge potential for anchoring fair trade and investments.
It is indeed a new concept in terms of an international currency - anchored in gold (40%) and BRICS+ currencies (60%).

https://unitfoundation.org

As it stands, the major takeaway is that the Unit should be seen as a feasible, technical solution for the theoretically Unsolvable: a globally-recognized payment/trade system, immune to political pressure.

zerohedge.com

[Peter90]

[DrBeer]

Such ideas and concepts have been floating around in the minds of politicians/unions/individuals for a long time. But no one can think of a solution. I am talking about a quality solution. Now I will explain the essence of the problem.
First of all, let's understand what money is ? And especially money in international economic relations, which is the basis of any economic union, which BRICS/BRICS+ is trying to present itself to be

Money is a universal equivalent that serves as a measure of the value of goods or services and is easily exchanged for them (having maximum liquidity). (c) Wikipedia

And here is the main question - how to make currency/money so that it retains its basic value, i.e. remains the guaranteed equivalent. And most importantly - under certain conditions.

So, let's consider a variant - kauri shells become the currency of BRICS+ ! Hmm... why not, if in some countries such an event once took place. You will logically notice, in addition to the absolutely understandable disadvantages, such as inconvenience of settlements, another important factor - their quantity is not controlled, and perhaps on some island, the whole coast is covered with them, and therefore they can not be a measure of value.... That's right, I agree. And, for example, is it possible to accept currency... you know, like counting stars as coins? It seems convenient - they are always in the sky, everything is transparent, everything is visible. But... the inconvenience of accounting for at least the possession of these "coins" and the impossibility of owning them physically. No, it is possible to invent a centralized body that will record transactions of transfer of stars and clusters from one entity of the union to another. But this is not a convenient option either.
By the way, these two solutions have one more small but very important disadvantage - even if you accept it as a settlement currency of the union - they will not be accepted by other countries And it means that working in the space of this currency, you isolate yourself from other markets..... No, there is an option that your union is ABSOLUTELY self-sufficient ! This means that it does not depend on the EXTERNAL market, and the external market has dependencies on your union.

It was an accession. Now let's look at the "kauri" of BRICS+ ? How would it be different from the options, nuances and conditions described above !?! ?
It will be very interesting to hear the arguments !

[Peter90]

BRICS - The Project Of The Century

Membership doubled as of January 1
Since January 1, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Ethiopia have joined the existing members (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) as new members.

[DrBeer]

Some thoughts and facts about BRICS/BRICS+.

As we know, the economy of this union is based on the economies of China and India. The other players are just raw material appendages for these two economies. We can fantasize a lot, but the economies of all the others are small percentages of the economies of China and India, and they do not produce anything competitive.

Now for the relationships and nuances.

Let me give you the most vivid example: trade between India and Russia, as well as between China and Russia.

Story 1: "Indian tricks" or how to buy something and get all the money back without giving back what you bought!?

As you know - the biggest buyer of oil from Russia is India. Why? Well, because of sanctions, and the pariah country needs somewhere to put its huge oil reserves to somehow support its deteriorating economy.
And you may have heard that Russia recently pompously reported an increase in crude oil sales?
Any idea how these events are related ?
I guess you do, but you probably haven't realized the full picture yet. So, "let's reveal the cards, the Indian trick" !
India buys oil from russia for ... RUPIA !
The idea was that russia gets rupees, converts them into dollars critical to russia's economy, and supports its dying economy.
The process was started, oil went to India, and rupees... and rupees didn't go anywhere They stayed in the correspondent accounts of Russian companies..... in INDIAN BANKS !
Why? Well, because India forbade to withdraw them under the risk of US sanctions. For almost half a year, Russia has been trying to get India to agree to some scheme so that Russia could somehow get its money.
Here's the trick! India has agreed! But the scheme is as follows - the blocked rupees of Russian companies remain in India, and are invested in the economy ... INDIA ! And then Russia will receive investment income ... in RUPIA
But how to withdraw rupees from India - we have already read above in the text

Story 2: Russia-China or "Donkey and master" (s) S.Lavrov
As we all know - last week, Xi JinPing summoned the entire top brass of Russia. Reasons - Xi's previous dialogs with the EU and the US.
Expectations of Russia - unblocking of Russian funds in China, unblocking of goods from China and other "manifestations of friendship and economic cooperation within BRICS".
Bottom line: Xi said succinctly: NO ! There will be no unblocking, no supplies, no ... expensive gas from russia, you can supply topinambur and bone meal to china. Forget the rest ! Because ... China is afraid of U.S. sanctions. Because it will kill China's economy instantly.   

Bottom line of these stories: what kind of independence, self-sufficiency, influence of BRICS /*BRICS+ can we talk about if 2 major economies use other countries as raw material appendages, and one country "with the second economy of the world" is hysterically afraid of US sanctions, wiping its feet on "its brother and friend for centuries" ?!

[hugeblack]

It has been a long time since I heard about BRICS+, and it is good that you created this topic for discussion. I am from the United Arab Emirates and I can say that my country depends on the dollar in one way or another. The local currency is linked to a fixed value of the dollar, and the sale of natural gas is made in dollars, and investments in Ports require that sales be made in dollars.


Countries began to think seriously about BRICS+ after what happened with Russian assets and the possibility of freezing Arab assets in the United States (if a war occurred,) but these countries are still far from the integration that leads to the establishment of a real economic unit, especially with the differences between countries such as China, which is trying to reduce The value of its currency and oil-rich countries that want to increase the value of their currency.

[DrBeer]

The official results of the INTERNATIONAL OFFICIAL meeting between Russia and China, which was organized by China, after a trip to the EU and dialogues with the U.S. were:
- signing of contracts for the supply of topinambour and beef cartilage,
- canceling the Power of Siberia 2 project
- Refusal to sell Chinese products to Russia.

Vnesheconomtorg of Russia issued a decree on "urgent recommendation to switch to barter supplies of products from China" ..... 21st century... Brix, claiming to be a global and significant union in the world... BARTER !

Question to the residents of BRICS/BRICS+ countries - please tell me, do you aspire to such a partnership ?  Only honestly ? Some describe the need to join BRICS (read - dedollarization) as a means of saving the economy in case this country violates international laws and falls under US sanctions ! Do you seriously believe that "such prospects" are worth it in exchange for the "right to violate international laws" and generally accepted treaties, moral and ethical norms ?

PS India has been invited to the G7 meeting. It was invited not for nothing but as a potential participant that will turn it into G8. China started to get nervous, and very much so.... What do you think India will choose - barter exchange of topinambur for beef cartilage or quality relations with the strongest economies of the world, free market and advantages of global world economy ?

[TomPluz]

As it stands, the major takeaway is that the Unit should be seen as a feasible, technical solution for the theoretically unsolvable: a globally-recognized payment/trade system, immune to political pressure.

How will BRICS+ be able to make its currency immune from political pressure would be something good to watch or are we referring here political pressures from USA and not within its own membership? One of the biggest problem that Euro faced with its integration in the Eurozone is that they all have different economies with so diverse of features and getting a uniform value produced many problems that are still being ironed out even today so I think the idea of making the new BRICS+ currency be independent away from each member's economy can be a good start. I can see that the main ambition of BRICS+ is to eventually replaced the US Dollar as the default international currency reserve to get away from the hegemony and control of USA. For sure, once that happen the value of dollar will plummet and can be one of the many reasons for its economic collapse...now how will the fall of US economy be affecting other countries would be one thing worth watching.

[DrBeer]

As it stands, the major takeaway is that the Unit should be seen as a feasible, technical solution for the theoretically unsolvable: a globally-recognized payment/trade system, immune to political pressure.

How will BRICS+ be able to make its currency immune from political pressure would be something good to watch or are we referring here political pressures from USA and not within its own membership? One of the biggest problem that Euro faced with its integration in the Eurozone is that they all have different economies with so diverse of features and getting a uniform value produced many problems that are still being ironed out even today so I think the idea of making the new BRICS+ currency be independent away from each member's economy can be a good start. I can see that the main ambition of BRICS+ is to eventually replaced the US Dollar as the default international currency reserve to get away from the hegemony and control of USA. For sure, once that happen the value of dollar will plummet and can be one of the many reasons for its economic collapse...now how will the fall of US economy be affecting other countries would be one thing worth watching.

Everything here is actually "more interesting". So far, there is not even a logical understanding of how there can be a single currency for countries with completely different economies, international status, and other characteristics that do not coincide at all. Provided that the entire BRICS+ economy is divided into a "thin layer" of stable economies, a "thick layer" of unstable and problematic economies (which includes the "second economy of the world" - China), economies that choose the developed Western economy and market (India), and the BRICS+ "economy" itself does not produce 30% of the necessary goods and technologies needed by the BRICS+ countries.
At the same time - BRICS+ have neither a single asset (e.g. gold reserves, economic power,...), nor any other "measure of value" that could objectively be a measure of value.

[Peter90]

It has been a long time since I heard about BRICS+, and it is good that you created this topic for discussion. I am from the United Arab Emirates and I can say that my country depends on the dollar in one way or another. The local currency is linked to a fixed value of the dollar, and the sale of natural gas is made in dollars, and investments in Ports require that sales be made in dollars.

HB, the Dirham being pegged to the $ doesn't mean anything
There was a troll - Stompix - who kept aggressively jumping on me pointing to that fact, in order to deny the de-dollarization in the Arab Gulf region.

Your country is de-dollarizing


"On 28 March 2023, the Shanghai Petroleum and Natural Gas Exchange (SHPGX) made history by announcing the first-ever deal on importing 65,000 tons of liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the UAE, settled in the Chinese yuan currency."

thecradle.co



"China's attempts to internationalise the yuan are finding fruit in the Gulf states. These states, particularly the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, are strengthening their financial cooperation with China through currency swap agreements, cross-border trade settlement arrangements and digital currency collaboration efforts.

On 28 November 2023, the People’s Bank of China and the Central Bank of the United Arab Emirates renewed their currency swap agreement worth US$4.89 billion for five years. Both banks also signed a memorandum of understanding to enhance collaboration in digital currency development."

eastasiaforum.org



"The key to understanding it all is Chinese President Xi’s recent historic visit to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states to launch, in his words, “a new paradigm of all-dimensional energy cooperation.”
The GCC includes Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates.
China is the GCC’s largest trading partner.

During Xi’s visit, he made the following crucial remarks (emphasis mine):
“China will continue to import large quantities of crude oil from GCC countries, expand imports of liquefied natural gas, strengthen cooperation in upstream oil and gas development, engineering services, storage, transportation and refining, and make full use of the Shanghai Petroleum and National Gas Exchange as a platform to carry out yuan settlement of oil and gas trade.”

internationalman.com


...............


Of course they are the first steps, but it's clear what's happening

Dubai is a major gold trade hub.
Abu Dhabi too?

+1 for coming from the UAE!

[DrBeer]

"China's attempts to internationalise the yuan are finding fruit in the Gulf states. These states, particularly the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, are strengthening their financial cooperation with China through currency swap agreements, cross-border trade settlement arrangements and digital currency collaboration efforts."

"On 28 November 2023, the People’s Bank of China and the Central Bank of the United Arab Emirates renewed their currency swap agreement worth US$4.89 billion for five years. Both banks also signed a memorandum of understanding to enhance collaboration in digital currency development.""

Are you not confused that "the yuan is increasingly used" but .... transaction volumes are still priced in DOLLARS ? I think there's some dissonance here, no?!

That said, we are watching China's continued attempts to push the Yuan as a "Brics currency" The first attempt was a failure, now that China's economy is picking up speed, but the speed is diving into the abyss - the attempts have resumed. I'm sure that smart BRICS members understand perfectly well that this is an attempt to "export China's economic problems", not to build a stable financial system within BRICS.

By the way - it would be interesting to see the detailed information about the yuan deals, namely - what Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia plans to buy from China ? Find out - and you will be greatly surprised !

[hugeblack]

Your country is de-dollarizing
Of course they are the first steps, but it's clear what's happening

Dubai is a major gold trade hub.
Abu Dhabi too?

+1 for coming from the UAE!

This happened for political reasons, especially the Arab countries’ fear that the United States would not activate the defense agreements if these countries were attacked. Also, what happened with Russia and the freezing of assets made some Arab countries diversify their investments with China and India and even join BRICS+, but I do not think that the government will go far at it.
The real change will be when the economic outlook changes, as the political reasons can change.

[DrBeer]

Interesting point discovered... As we know a union is an economically beneficial interaction between the participants. After all, BRICS/+ is an economic union in the first place.
It is clear that some of the BRICS/+ participants are just raw material appendages of larger players.

But I decided to clarify what is the mutual trade turnover between China and the UAE, for example....
The picture turned out to be very interesting. China is very dependent on oil, and on oil from the Middle East in the first place. That is, the UAE supplies China with oil. A lot of oil.
And from China comes "machinery, equipment and electrical appliances."..... And here is the most interesting thing - I found out from an acquaintance who is from UAE - is there a lot of Chinese machinery in their segment (construction) ? The answer - "I don't know, I haven't seen it" I.e. a huge segment of consumption falls out. Electrical appliances - if we talk about the consumer market, I don't think UAE residents buy Chinese brands en masse.... In short - it is not clear to me what the UAE actually buys from China and in WHICH volumes !?? But we know very well how much China buys oil from UAE, and 90+% of it is sales for dollars. less than 10% - in yuan. This percentage probably indicates the real imports from China.  I.e. the balance of foreign economic "favorable partnership" is 9:1....

Can anyone explain the real picture, without references to Chinese official media and similar sources?

PS If you read the official Chinese media - the picture is fantastic and the statistics is "off the scale", but we know that today there are four kinds of lies:  lies, blatant lies, statistics and Chinese official statistics

[Agbe]

If Bric is coming to the digital currency, it won't work out because it will be a centralized digital currency that will be controlled by the supported countries and if it is for the formation of the regional currency to eliminate the US Dollar then they might succeed because what they are planning to do is to use the agreed currency to trade, buy things and pay goods and services. Then it will work out and they are winning more countries to the economic block.

[electronicash]

If Bric is coming to the digital currency, it won't work out because it will be a centralized digital currency that will be controlled by the supported countries and if it is for the formation of the regional currency to eliminate the US Dollar then they might succeed because what they are planning to do is to use the agreed currency to trade, buy things and pay goods and services. Then it will work out and they are winning more countries to the economic block.

from the screenshots above, it does look like the BRICS countries are using their own currencies to buy oil. Kenya using their shillings to buy oil and India also using their rupees. seem fair to me and not forcing their members to use Yuan. isn't that freedom?

if BRICS are going ahead to launch the system they have, i guess there is never stopping anymore of their multipolar system.