BRICS+

[DrBeer]

If Bric is coming to the digital currency, it won't work out because it will be a centralized digital currency that will be controlled by the supported countries and if it is for the formation of the regional currency to eliminate the US Dollar then they might succeed because what they are planning to do is to use the agreed currency to trade, buy things and pay goods and services. Then it will work out and they are winning more countries to the economic block.

Great idea, but... There's still the question of implementation. Moving away from the currency of the international economic system, the dollar, has several consequences:
1. isolation of the BRICS economy, or correctly - self-isolation from the world economy. The reason is banal - 70% of the union members do not produce any products important for the world economy.
2. At the same time, China and India almost entirely produce significant products for the world economy. But they sell them for... DOLLARS. Why ? Because India and China need goods from the "outside" world economy, and there the settlements are for freely convertible and recognized currencies - mainly dollar, euro, yen,.... but not the yuan.
3. another reason - who and how will control the "single currency? Well, how can China and Iran, for example, equally ensure the value of the single currency? The answer is simple - they can't.
4. China will strongly push YUAN as the single currency of the union. Directly or indirectly, Yuan or CBDC Yuan.... Or it will demand to give China "Exclusive Rights" because it is supposedly the "second economy of the world".  China's goal in BRICS is "Chineseization of BRICS", it is enough to look at the colonization of African countries to understand what China will do with "raw material appendages". But China's dominance will be countered by ... INDIA. Which chooses the Western vector and qualitative relations with the world, rather than self-isolation....

[0t3p0t]

Your country is de-dollarizing
Of course they are the first steps, but it's clear what's happening

Dubai is a major gold trade hub.
Abu Dhabi too?

+1 for coming from the UAE!

This happened for political reasons, especially the Arab countries’ fear that the United States would not activate the defense agreements if these countries were attacked. Also, what happened with Russia and the freezing of assets made some Arab countries diversify their investments with China and India and even join BRICS+, but I do not think that the government will go far at it.
The real change will be when the economic outlook changes, as the political reasons can change.

Definitely the reason why countries that are afraid of sanctions are now looking forward to decentralized assets. I don't think joining BRICS would solve the problem as I think some of these countries has trust issues with themselves so I think they will still prefer decentralized assets like Bitcoin or they will still use local currency to trade like CBDC or the BRICS currency but I think we still need time to get a more clear view of it's real life usage in the future.

[electronicash]

Your country is de-dollarizing
Of course they are the first steps, but it's clear what's happening

Dubai is a major gold trade hub.
Abu Dhabi too?

+1 for coming from the UAE!

This happened for political reasons, especially the Arab countries’ fear that the United States would not activate the defense agreements if these countries were attacked. Also, what happened with Russia and the freezing of assets made some Arab countries diversify their investments with China and India and even join BRICS+, but I do not think that the government will go far at it.
The real change will be when the economic outlook changes, as the political reasons can change.

Definitely the reason why countries that are afraid of sanctions are now looking forward to decentralized assets. I don't think joining BRICS would solve the problem as I think some of these countries has trust issues with themselves so I think they will still prefer decentralized assets like Bitcoin or they will still use local currency to trade like CBDC or the BRICS currency but I think we still need time to get a more clear view of it's real life usage in the future.

they are waiting for the result of the wars that's happening. some are undecided whether they are going to side with Russia which they could rely on cheap energy but at the same time, afraid of sanction. 

US is also not going  direct military confrontation with China since this is going to be both devastating in their economy.  but this prolong war will still result to same thing. all in all, countries are just waiting which one will lose in trade war and they could all side to the winner.

[DrBeer]

BRICS now reminds me of the USSR. I will tell you a story, probably you are not familiar with it or do not know the nuances
There was such a country as the USSR. And here it was, or rather its government, decided to build communism, first in the USSR and then in the whole world. And the main goal was to put an end to capitalism and, of course, the U.S. and the dollar.
However, they promised to build communism in the 30s, then 50s, then 70s, but for some reason communism was not built, and capitalism, the U.S. and the dollar - only strengthened. At the same time, for some reason it was the USSR and its “company” that degraded ... The USSR sponsored at the expense of its population all sorts of dubious regimes, these regimes supposedly fought imperialists and capitalists.... But at one moment, unexpectedly, the USSR itself, with its ruble, the most powerful economy and the most huge army, suddenly collapsed.... And it was not the army, nor nuclear weapons, nor 40% of natural resources, nor “brotherly countries”, nor “the most well-read and educated people” that saved it..... Just the population of the country was tired of waiting for “the victory of the great communism”, having learned how the NORMAL western world lives ! It turned out that nobody is “rotting” there, so quality life, social guarantees, flexible and actively growing economy, adequate wages and services....

And actually what I wanted to say, BRICS, at the head of which China puts itself and tries to “unite” the members of the union under the aegis of dedollarization and destruction of the “US hegemony”, reminds me very much of the USSR's efforts to gather around itself “fellow believers” and go “with a holy war against the Western world”. True, the USSR sponsored and paid for the “friendship”, while China is colonizing, absorbing, and forcing it. True under the “holy slogans” - “dedollarization”, “victory over the Western world”....
There will be an epiphany, followed by disappointment. But by that time the economy in many countries of the “union” will be ruined or destroyed. Just read just what China is doing - in African countries where China has come to “help” them. Others may have their economic ties to the developed world and western economies destroyed for years to come. I'm afraid I'm right in assuming that today's BRICS is China's attempt to colonize many countries in the Asian-African region under “holy ideas”, with the support of a few rogue countries that also have real and huge economic problems that could lead to the fall of their regimes.

[Peter90]

"According to a statement by its government, Thailand plans to apply to join the BRICS alliance as soon as this month. The Asian country looks to expand its presence on the world stage along with the rest of the global south.

At a cabinet meeting Tuesday, the Thai government finalized plans to submit their application to the bloc. If approved, Thailand would become the first inductee from Southeast Asia to join BRICS.

Joining the BRICS alliance would benefit Thailand, primarily as a leading voice for developing countries. As the bloc grows, it is also looking to expand its reach amongst growing economies, swaying them away from the US Dollar.

Thailand is a part of the ASEAN bloc, which contains nine other Southeast Asian countries. These countries’ leaders signed a declaration last year to stop using the U.S. dollar for international trade. The agreement was made to promote their local currencies instead. The move bolstered the power of ASEAN nations’ local currencies. This objective coincided with the mission of BRICS to push de-dollarization and showed the bloc that ASEAN nations are in line with the BRICS initiative.

Once Thailand submits its BRICS application, it is uncertain how long it will take for the bloc to respond. The country may have to wait until the annual BRICS summit that will be held in Russia this fall. If a representative from the Thai government is invited to the summit, though, that will be great news for the country’s future in the alliance."

watcher.guru

[DrBeer]

Very strange processes are taking place within the BRICS. For example, China, the “BRICS leader” and the “world's second economy”. In just the last few days, the Chinese, world manufacturer of video surveillance systems Hikvision simply, without warning, left the Russian market. The official Russian site and pages of the company in social networks are unavailable, phones do not answer, draws the attention of CNews.
For information - Hikvision accounted for 70% of the Russian video surveillance market....

Alibaba also “destroys fraternal relations between countries” - the Chinese company has stopped accepting payments from Russian cards and does not allow to formalize the delivery in the Russian Federation, writes “Kommersant” with reference to sources in the market.

There are only 2 options:
1. or China really does not want to deal with russia (the most unlikely option, as China needs a market and this raw materials appendage).
2. or China, aka “the second economy of the world” and “the second pole of the multipolar world” is VERY afraid of the US influence. Although according to China's official version, which it is trying to “pull over the heads” of the BRICS participants - “the U.S. is losing its status, the U.S. dollar is worthless and we are abandoning the dollar, the U.S. economy is collapsing, the U.S. has a huge domestic debt! ...” and other narratives..... So where is the truth ? No one can tell me ? And how will relations within BRICS be built if China is ready to flee from the market because of some US sanctions !??

[Peter90]

"On 28 March 2023, the Shanghai Petroleum and Natural Gas Exchange (SHPGX) made history by announcing the first-ever deal on importing 65,000 tons of liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the UAE, settled in the Chinese yuan currency."

thecradle.co



"China's attempts to internationalise the yuan are finding fruit in the Gulf states. These states, particularly the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, are strengthening their financial cooperation with China through currency swap agreements, cross-border trade settlement arrangements and digital currency collaboration efforts.

On 28 November 2023, the People’s Bank of China and the Central Bank of the United Arab Emirates renewed their currency swap agreement worth US$4.89 billion for five years. Both banks also signed a memorandum of understanding to enhance collaboration in digital currency development."

eastasiaforum.org



"The key to understanding it all is Chinese President Xi’s recent historic visit to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states to launch, in his words, “a new paradigm of all-dimensional energy cooperation.”
The GCC includes Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates.
China is the GCC’s largest trading partner.

During Xi’s visit, he made the following crucial remarks (emphasis mine):
“China will continue to import large quantities of crude oil from GCC countries, expand imports of liquefied natural gas, strengthen cooperation in upstream oil and gas development, engineering services, storage, transportation and refining, and make full use of the Shanghai Petroleum and National Gas Exchange as a platform to carry out yuan settlement of oil and gas trade.”

internationalman.com





...............

"trade in local currency" means no $

China... Kenya... India... Indonesia... S. Korea




Hugeblack, are you aware of the giant steps your country is making in de-dollarizing its international trade?

[DrBeer]

"trade in local currency" means no $

China... Kenya... India... Indonesia... S. Korea

Hugeblack, are you aware of the giant steps your country is making in de-dollarizing its international trade?

Guys, so the whole point of BRICS is de-dollarization ? So it's an alliance against something ? An alliance to cover itself with pretty words to do what? To dedollarize the world economy ?
I always thought that alliance is about creation, creation of something good, like strengthening and development of economies of countries, not fighting against ... other people's success !

Who can really explain, only reasoned, and show what is the problem of the dollar as an international currency, and what REAL advantages you get for example trading for yuan ?

It is possible even on a live example, with UAE and China, it will be the most demonstrative But not with “fantastic ideas”, but with a real example of trade turnover of both countries and mutual benefits ?

A bit above I have already considered this example from my side, probably I am far from the truth and you can show other information ?

PS by the way, a question to the “fighters against the dollar” - tell me, what prevents you to simply take and ban the dollar in your countries ? Also with arguments and facts It looks strange to fight against the dollar, but ZVR - in dollar, credits - in dollar, personal accounts of elites - in dollars.... Something I do not understand - why if there is a beautiful, for example, yuan, right?

[Peter90]

Hi Hugeblack

how do explain that your country is - by far - the one where crypto usage is the most widespread?

[electronicash]

exporting and importing i think is just what they try to avoid using USD.
its just the governments that are doing the dedollarization, but not the citizens. people still use the USD since trading it to the local currency is higher.  it benefits the people.

every news we see today in finance is somewhat related to inflation and BRICS. they are growing regardless of whether US like it or not.
but because crypto is  international, i think they will likely prefer to be using BTC as option.

[DrBeer]

exporting and importing i think is just what they try to avoid using USD.
its just the governments that are doing the dedollarization, but not the citizens. people still use the USD since trading it to the local currency is higher.  it benefits the people.

every news we see today in finance is somewhat related to inflation and BRICS. they are growing regardless of whether US like it or not.
but because crypto is  international, i think they will likely prefer to be using BTC as option.

Cryptocurrency is not an international settlement currency.... For example, in China, cryptocurrency is illegal!  How will cryptocurrency be used in BRICS? It would be interesting to know the analytics on bitcoin reserves by BRICS+ countries. And also - which of the BRICS+ countries use cryptocurrencies massively and for any transactions for any people ?  After you study these statistics - you will realize that the future of cryptocurrencies (we are talking about bitcoin and its alternatives), in BRICS+ will definitely not be a “single currency”.

[electronicash]

exporting and importing i think is just what they try to avoid using USD.
its just the governments that are doing the dedollarization, but not the citizens. people still use the USD since trading it to the local currency is higher.  it benefits the people.

every news we see today in finance is somewhat related to inflation and BRICS. they are growing regardless of whether US like it or not.
but because crypto is  international, i think they will likely prefer to be using BTC as option.

Cryptocurrency is not an international settlement currency.... For example, in China, cryptocurrency is illegal!  How will cryptocurrency be used in BRICS? It would be interesting to know the analytics on bitcoin reserves by BRICS+ countries. And also - which of the BRICS+ countries use cryptocurrencies massively and for any transactions for any people ?  After you study these statistics - you will realize that the future of cryptocurrencies (we are talking about bitcoin and its alternatives), in BRICS+ will definitely not be a “single currency”.

the chinese are using cryptocurencies though. the government only bans crypto to the financial institutions in China but not for the people using it. you can see on the wechat channel the Chinese have their own crypto market.

they are still using Bitcoin and some other crypto. even Russia I think are are not able to ban BTC, people are still buying and selling crypto and you can yobit still running since time.

[DrBeer]

exporting and importing i think is just what they try to avoid using USD.
its just the governments that are doing the dedollarization, but not the citizens. people still use the USD since trading it to the local currency is higher.  it benefits the people.

every news we see today in finance is somewhat related to inflation and BRICS. they are growing regardless of whether US like it or not.
but because crypto is  international, i think they will likely prefer to be using BTC as option.

Cryptocurrency is not an international settlement currency.... For example, in China, cryptocurrency is illegal!  How will cryptocurrency be used in BRICS? It would be interesting to know the analytics on bitcoin reserves by BRICS+ countries. And also - which of the BRICS+ countries use cryptocurrencies massively and for any transactions for any people ?  After you study these statistics - you will realize that the future of cryptocurrencies (we are talking about bitcoin and its alternatives), in BRICS+ will definitely not be a “single currency”.

the chinese are using cryptocurencies though. the government only bans crypto to the financial institutions in China but not for the people using it. you can see on the wechat channel the Chinese have their own crypto market.

they are still using Bitcoin and some other crypto. even Russia I think are are not able to ban BTC, people are still buying and selling crypto and you can yobit still running since time.

We talked about the use of cryptocurrencies by BRICS+ participants. I assumed that we were talking about using them both for mutual settlements and for internal settlements, to implement the “holy idea of dedollarization”.
And what you are saying now is just a right of ownership. Since you CANNOT make payments, pay salaries, pay utilities....
“Currently, 51 countries and regions around the world have imposed bans on cryptocurrencies. Among them, 9 countries and regions have introduced absolute bans that completely prohibit the production, storage, trading and use of cryptocurrency. These countries and regions are: Algeria, Bangladesh, China, Egypt, Iraq, Morocco, Nepal, Qatar, Tunisia and Egypt.” (c) Binance 2024.

Now show us what the situation looks like in other BRICS+ member countries, and we will see if cryptocurrencies will ever appear as an official single currency in BRICS+


Prohibition is very simple - criminal liability is introduced and payments from exchanges to cards are blocked. For isolated/totalitarian regimes, this is an extremely simple solution. What's the point of cryptocurrency - if you can't use it ? Neither to exchange it for local currency, nor to pay for it, nor to go to another country and use it there ! ?

[DrBeer]

BRICS/BRICS+ - a game of “friendship for survival” or “alliance of new colonialists capturing raw material appendages - their ‘partners’”:)

A bit about “allied, friendly, relations” within this alliance....

Those who have been watching what has been going on for the last half a year, probably noticed interesting processes concerning the immediate key figures in BRICS (I mean both BRICS and BRICS+).
As we remember - India, China and Russia have always been considered the key figures and, in general, the creators of BRICS. Let's not dive into the past of BRICS, let's return to the present.
2 very interesting facts in recent times:
1. India, the biggest buyer of “dirty oil from russia”, actually denied russia its money for oil ! No, you didn't mishear. Russia has not received a single rupee from India for oil. No one is talking about dollars at all
The key phrase to search for is “Since 2022, the funds received by Russian exporters for oil deliveries to the South Asian country have been accumulated in special accounts in local currency.”. After Russia begged India to give some money for almost half a year, India has made a truly grandiose decision! Yes Russia, the money is yours. But it will be invested in India's economy. And then you might get some kind of dividends. But then, and most importantly, it's possible! In the meantime, keep supplying India with oil at huge discounts. “Thank you, brotherly country !”
2. China. According to Russia's fantasies - the largest buyer of Russian gas. Uh-huh China pays for gas, unlike India. But there are also nuances - it pays very little, because it forced Russia to give incredible discounts on gas, forced Russia to invest money from its budget in the construction of two gas pipelines. It does not pay in dollars, it pays in cheap consumer goods, which must be sold to maintain the... the chinese economy !
But someone may object - “what are you talking about, just recently a huge delegation from Russia visited friendly, brotherly China!”. That's right ! After the Chinese visit to Europe, SI “called for a serious conversation” with its raw material appendage. Before that he banned many state banks from conducting transactions from Russia
Oh yes, and most importantly - can anyone name even ONE significant contract signed at this “great meeting” ? I will add to this - China forced Russia to lower gas prices and also to allocate new territories to Russia for “long-term lease by China”. You don't know about the latter ?! I highly recommend to familiarize yourself with how Russia since 2014, in fact, has been giving away its territories in the far east of Russia to China !

Total picture - of the “three pillars of BRICS”, two are trying to make their own raw materials appendage out of the third, cynically using the situation, and solely for their own benefit.

Can we really call it a mutually beneficial alliance with good ideas and relations?


UPD. Turkey's largest state bank has refused to unblock payments to Russia
Negotiations lasting almost six months have ended in fiasco.

Very friendly, and within the framework of the union

[DrBeer]

Excellent “friendship” traditions among the BRICS members:

China demanded Russia to sell it (China) gas at the domestic Russian price, and this without taking into account the costs of delivery and construction of gas infrastructure, because China refused to finance the construction or even credit the “Power of Siberia 2”.
At the same time China, “in a friendly way” explains to Russia - “you have nowhere to sell gas, the only major buyer can be ONLY China. So do what we say !"