The idiots who think that single-use addresses are mixers

[NotATether]

https://stacker.news/items/555804

Take a look at this.

While I was not able to get a hold of the exact legislation being proposed and written in Congress, there are rumors going out that there is a legislation they want to pass that would make not using an address multiple times a mixer.

I mean, what in the world are these people thinking? Clearly they don't know how a mixer works at all.

This sounds like something that was sponsored by a chain analysis company.

[ABCbits]

This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.

(B) Using programmatic or algorithmic code to coordinate, manage, or manipulate the structure of a transaction;

(D) Creating and using single-use wallets, addresses, or accounts, and sending CVC through such wallets, addresses, or accounts through a series of independent transactions;

(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets;

[NotATether]

This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.

(B) Using programmatic or algorithmic code to coordinate, manage, or manipulate the structure of a transaction;

(D) Creating and using single-use wallets, addresses, or accounts, and sending CVC through such wallets, addresses, or accounts through a series of independent transactions;

(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets;

B) OOPS! Every software wallet has just been made illegal (^{in the USA at least}).

D) OOPS! Nobody can actually prove that a chain of transactions belong to one person so this outlaws chains of transactions.

E) OOPS! This effectively outlaws exchanges.

In the process of writing this letter, they have killed the entire crypto industry in the process. Even exchanges can't survive with this sort of bill, and it wouldn't surprise me if they turn on it hard.

[examplens]

This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.

(B) Using programmatic or algorithmic code to coordinate, manage, or manipulate the structure of a transaction;

(D) Creating and using single-use wallets, addresses, or accounts, and sending CVC through such wallets, addresses, or accounts through a series of independent transactions;

(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets;

This is like some kind of bad parody, shouldn't they find someone with an elementary knowledge of blockchain and not allow some plumber to write these terms for them?

When did this amateurism in the US gov begin?

[Stompix]

https://stacker.news/items/555804

Take a look at this.

The guy got it backwards
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2023-10-23/pdf/2023-23449.pdf

§ 1010.662 Special measures regarding CVC mixing transactions.
(a) Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following terms have the following meanings.
~
(3) CVC mixing. (i) The term ‘‘CVC mixing’’ means the facilitation of CVC transactions in a manner that obfuscates
the source, destination, or amount involved in one or more transactions,
regardless of the type of protocol or service used, such as:
(A) Pooling or aggregating CVC from multiple persons, wallets, addresses, or accounts;
(B) Using programmatic or algorithmic code to coordinate, manage, or manipulate the structure of a
transaction;
(C) Splitting CVC for transmittal and transmitting the CVC through a series of independent transactions;
(D) Creating and using single-use wallets, addresses, or accounts, and sending CVC through such wallets,
addresses, or accounts through a series of independent transactions;
(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets; or(F) Facilitating user-initiated delays in
transactional activity.

They defined mixing as using different methods in order to obfuscate the sender and the receiver one of it being single-use addresses.
It doesn't mean that using a single-use wallet or address is mixing.

Simple example: A car has 4 wheels but something with 4 wheels is not always a car!

Also, another thing, this is only for:

The parties expected to comply with the special measure one include any and all domestic covered financialinstitutions as defined in 31 CFR
1010.100(t).99 Table 1 (below)

Bank b ... c 9,850
Broker/Dealer in Securities d ... e 3,540
Money Services Business f ... g 25,710
Dealer in Foreign Exchange h ... i 190 (3,000)
Check Casherj ... k 5,960 (21,970)
Issuer/Seller of Traveler’s Checks/Money Orders l ... m 380
Provider of Prepaid Access n ... o 20 (130)
Seller of Prepaid Access p ... q 40 (2,220)
U.S. Postal Service r ... s 0
Money Transmittert ... u 450 (16,460)
Telegraph Company v ... w 0
Casino x ... y 990
Card Club z ... aa 270
Person subject to supervision by any State or Federal Bank Supervisory Authority bb ................................................................. cc N/A
Futures Commission Merchant dd ... ee 60
Introducing Broker in Commodities ff ... gg 970
Mutual Fund hh ...........

[hugeblack]

This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.

These points are an explanation of convertible virtual currency
(CVC) mixing, so that any service that contains points from A to F is considered a mixer.
The general definition of a mixer, according to https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2023-10-23/pdf/2023-23449.pdf, is any service that leads to difficulty connecting inputs and outputs, and the conditions stated from A to F apply to it.


The problem is that the report stated that “special measures” may be taken for anyone who helps facilitate or Promoting money laundering, which gives FinCEN additional permissions.

[ABCbits]

This is ridiculous, some groups and politicians must really hate someone else having some privacy. I also worry about other criteria of "CVC mixing", especially these points which are very common feature on many cryptocurrency wallet.

These points are an explanation of convertible virtual currency
(CVC) mixing, so that any service that contains points from A to F is considered a mixer.
The general definition of a mixer, according to https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2023-10-23/pdf/2023-23449.pdf, is any service that leads to difficulty connecting inputs and outputs, and the conditions stated from A to F apply to it.

I'm not familiar with legal terms, but these parts (what i bold on below quote) imply that certain service only need to meet 1 of 6 mentioned criteria. But CMIIW.

(3) CVC mixing. (i) The term ‘‘CVC mixing’’ means the facilitation of CVC transactions in a manner that obfuscates the source, destination, or amount involved in one or more transactions, regardless of the type of protocol or service used, such as:

(E) Exchanging between types of CVC or other digital assets; or
(F) Facilitating user-initiated delays in transactional activity.

[MrSpasybo]

https://stacker.news/items/555804

Take a look at this.

While I was not able to get a hold of the exact legislation being proposed and written in Congress, there are rumors going out that there is a legislation they want to pass that would make not using an address multiple times a mixer.

I mean, what in the world are these people thinking? Clearly they don't know how a mixer works at all.

This sounds like something that was sponsored by a chain analysis company.

I do not support the proposal to freeze user accounts involved with Mixers in the past because they cannot control the origin of every satoshi in their account. If this proposal becomes law, it could affect millions of users and have a negative impact on the crypto market. It would be terrible if someone received $100 in BTC from a banner design job but  his account was frozen because a few satoshi of these BTC was once associated with Mixers 3 years ago when it was still in someone else's account.

The method of identifying and accusing an account of being involved with Mixers is also ridiculous and laughable. I think they are just trying to make some effort so they can fool the congressmen. They don't even understand how all Mixers work to be able to apply such a crude common criterion.

[TomPluz]

This is like some kind of bad parody, shouldn't they find someone with an elementary knowledge of blockchain and not allow some plumber to write these terms for them? When did this amateurism in the US gov begin?

Many lawmakers are good at nothing and they are masking their ignorance with their supposed care of the people and to protect the investors. This is just one of the manifestations why nobody should be trusting the very government which is sworn to protect and work for people's welfare as they, in many cases, are actually working for the opposite. While not advocating anarchy, we should be careful with lawmakers who are in reality law-breakers themselves...they can say that nobody is above the law but if their family, their friends and their financial backers are into something they will be the first to defend them. I am hoping that this proposed bill will not be seeing the light of the day and should be declared as dumb as it should be. These lawmakers should be given their basic crypto orientation so they can better understand things and so they will not be labeled as just another stupid politicians.

[yhiaali3]

Without going into all the details and complications, it is certain that they are pursuing one thing, which is eliminating decentralization and privacy. It is clear from the beginning that all the regulations they have approved, whether related to money laundering, anti-terrorist financing laws, or mixers, aim for the same goal.

With this law, whether you use mixers or not, you will one day find yourself wanted for violating money laundering or anti-terrorism regulations or using mixers.

[jeraldskie11]

Well this kind of stuff is not new me because here in my Country they making laws out of nowhere like you can say, "do they think it before implementing?" Maybe they did it to let the people know that they are doing something, not just by paying them from people's money. No matter what we say to them, we can't do anything against them because they are the authority. Instead, we have to follow them or else we pay for penalty or the worse, in jail.

[Faisal2202]

So if I have multiple addresses and I am using a unique one every time mean I am using a mixer? haha what are they smoking these days I wonder. Well, I know one thing these people are no joke, they always have some roadmaps, like first they will use the term mixers to pass their bill, because they know using the word mixer will make the situation easier for them but what they don't understand is, they are accusing an entity for there own self benefits.

While it's not how things work, I wonder who are the ones (idiots) who will approve this legislation. I also think of these events as to gain some popularity or attraction as the elections are ongoing. But in these times considering the situation I will say everyone is on the side of crypto (especially the Trump). BTW his chances are lesser. And I also heard Biden also going soft on crypto users and that's why ETH ETFs got approved as five members of the SEC have to make the decision of either approving it or not.

[Lucius]

~snip~
With this law, whether you use mixers or not, you will one day find yourself wanted for violating money laundering or anti-terrorism regulations or using mixers.

From the very beginning, all those who used BTC as a currency were treated as criminals who are hiding something and dealing with illegal things - I think that this narrative is only getting better with time, i.e. that we all turn out to be not only criminals, but also those who support terrorism and we may even undermine the stability of national currencies.

In a few years, some "experts" will appear who will claim that Bitcoin is one of the most important reasons for inflation, and they have already accused it of climate change because it consumes too much electricity - and even 0.2% of the total consumption in the world is too much

I am never surprised by such things, because human stupidity is as infinite as the universe.

[yhiaali3]

From the very beginning, all those who used BTC as a currency were treated as criminals who are hiding something and dealing with illegal things - I think that this narrative is only getting better with time, i.e. that we all turn out to be not only criminals, but also those who support terrorism and we may even undermine the stability of national currencies.

It is absolutely true, here in my country they use this charge against those who work with Bitcoin. I mean the charge of "undermining the stability of the national currency." They are good at fabricating random charges.

Because of the stupidity and failure of the government here in my country, they know nothing about Bitcoin and call it a “foreign currency.” They consider anyone who deals in Bitcoin a criminal on charges of dealing in a foreign currency that causes damage to the national currency and may be sentenced to prison.

[bitmover]

While I was not able to get a hold of the exact legislation being proposed and written in Congress, there are rumors going out that there is a legislation they want to pass that would make not using an address multiple times a mixer.

I mean, what in the world are these people thinking? Clearly they don't know how a mixer works at all.

people underestimate the power of using an adress just once.

Sadly we have to use the same address over and over in signature campaigns.  But this a terrible habit, and the privacy we achieve by creating a new address for every transaction is huge.

It is important also not to consolidate utxo from different addresses together.

Good topic NotATether.  Discussions here are getting better and better.