BG shilling and forum actions!

[Findingnemo]

Unfortunately, if these rules were followed, most of those I mentioned in this topic would have already been banned.

They're sliding under the radar at the moment cause they became less agressive these days compared to earlier, even today I saw a post that's definitely made by BG shillers but it didn't have any link or nothing that breaks the laws but somewhat tries to link multiple exchange names and Bitget is the first in the list.

I don't know whether this kind of post is acceptable or not cause it's only mod can answer but let's try my luck and report them to see if they gets removed.

[Freemind]

~snip~
Unfortunately, if these rules were followed, most of those I mentioned in this topic would have already been banned.

Here we try to do things in other ways. You already know that we do not ban users, we try to give them the option to change their behavior so that they can continue participating in the forum. Sometimes it is difficult, since there are some users who, even after several warnings, continue doing the same thing, as was the case that happened a few days ago with a user who had to be silenced indefinitely.

Everything has a limit, but we try to be flexible and the rules are written to comply with them.

They're sliding under the radar at the moment cause they became less agressive these days compared to earlier, even today I saw a post that's definitely made by BG shillers but it didn't have any link or nothing that breaks the laws but somewhat tries to link multiple exchange names and Bitget is the first in the list.

I don't know whether this kind of post is acceptable or not cause it's only mod can answer but let's try my luck and report them to see if they gets removed.

What you say indicates that the notices have worked in a certain way, we hope this behavior decreases. After all, promoting any product is as simple as using the user's signature.

[Findingnemo]

What you say indicates that the notices have worked in a certain way, we hope this behavior decreases. After all, promoting any product is as simple as using the user's signature.

But it's not exactly the same, they are just manipulating the users by injecting something in a wrong way, they can do that in right way via their signatures but that isn't gonna get them to paid by the exchange.

I saw an image somewhere that their exchange is paying users for shilling on other platforms and they only get paid for the number of posts.

I'll try to update that image later here.

[dragononcrypto]

Have skimmed through this topic, reminds me of the Veil days of shilling that was a lot easier to deal with based on reporting shill posts on bitcointalk and why the IP section exists today.

Anyway, I commend the ways Freemind and Jokers have dealt this situation so far, as it's a difficult situation to deal with compared to blatant spammers, especially when there is no "evidence" of shilling but merely a lot of shilling. (Edit: Based on above post, there is clear evidence of shilling, but still no easy links to follow as it were)

Generally I think tagging as a Shiller and moving on is the correct approach, and then adding to Misbehaving (if shillers group isn't already a moderated group), followed by strikes etc. At least from a look at the shillers group that approach appears to be working, even if it means new accounts get created. This has also been part of the ethos of the forum, allow users to post but tag appropriately, with a ban being the last resort solution. Consider this, it's very unlikely other users would consider the shillers posts to have value if they are labeled as a shill/misbehaving and by default end up with negative karma. These users no longer look like respectable members of the community, and rightfully so. It might seem disruptive, especially if an entire topic is from shillers, but otherwise I think it can be amusing or interesting for others without taking these posts too seriously or becoming a victim somehow, even if not ideal.

My only criticism would be trashing topics that shills appear in as this is completely unnecessary. Posts can be split into a single topic, then the split post moved to IP section. This is how incentivized posting has been dealt with in the past to avoid disruption to forum discussion. Obviously if the topic is started from a shiller then removing the topic is the only option though...

I think it'd otherwise be worth Jokers having access to Shillers group for when needed, seems like this is all on your at present Freemind, which is never a good thing (per SPOF).

When you read some respected members say they don't see the issue with shillers, and other saying they need to be banned, then clearly the current form moderation is the correct decision.

Sometimes sweeping the problem under the carpet with tags is the best way to deal with it in the immediate term

[dragononcrypto]

I saw an image somewhere that their exchange is paying users for shilling on other platforms and they only get paid for the number of posts.

Please share any sign up links. If they stupid enough to have a spreadsheet of users / posts then this would be a lot easier to deal with 

[Lucius]

I saw an image somewhere that their exchange is paying users for shilling on other platforms and they only get paid for the number of posts.

Please share any sign up links. If they stupid enough to have a spreadsheet of users / posts then this would be a lot easier to deal with 

As far as I know, there is no public list of users who are involved in this type of "advertising", but there is evidence that this company pays them to do exactly what they do on this forum.

I put the link with the proof literally in the first post, I'm surprised that @Findingnemo didn't see it (unless he means something else).

[Findingnemo]

I put the link with the proof literally in the first post, I'm surprised that @Findingnemo didn't see it (unless he means something else).

That's the image I was talking about my bad I didn't notice that you linked to the thread which I actually created for the same matter on Bitcointalk.

Their kind promotion makes an impression that they are not doing everything by the books and I never tried their services too so I didn't have chance to analyse deep about that matter after that.

[Jokers]

My only criticism would be trashing topics that shills appear in as this is completely unnecessary. Posts can be split into a single topic, then the split post moved to IP section. This is how incentivized posting has been dealt with in the past to avoid disruption to forum discussion. Obviously if the topic is started from a shiller then removing the topic is the only option though...

Were there such cases? Strange, I haven't come across any complaints about this. Of course it is obvious that a mote is not a reason of deleting the entire thing, just to clean off that mote. But when users start talking in the shill's topic...

[Lucius]

Were there such cases? Strange, I haven't come across any complaints about this. Of course it is obvious that a mote is not a reason of deleting the entire thing, just to clean off that mote. But when users start talking in the shill's topic...

The tactic used by such users often consists of someone opening a topic and asking a trivial question, such as: "which CEX is the best for something" or "where can I buy a certain altcoin", and then the same person from his alt the account answers to itself and promotes someone or something.

What helps them in creating a "legitimate discussion" are ordinary users who do not understand what it is actually about, or understand but do not care.

[dragononcrypto]

My only criticism would be trashing topics that shills appear in as this is completely unnecessary. Posts can be split into a single topic, then the split post moved to IP section. This is how incentivized posting has been dealt with in the past to avoid disruption to forum discussion. Obviously if the topic is started from a shiller then removing the topic is the only option though...

Were there such cases? Strange, I haven't come across any complaints about this.

I checked IP section there were a few examples I came across, but on closer inspection it was more so that the topic had been split from the shill entrance, because of replies to the shill, and other posts not in response to the shill were caught up in that. The solution would be to use the "Select posts to split" option when splitting, or otherwise you click split topic on the OP which brings you to this option, so you can split out the shill & replies to shill, but leave the rest.

But not gonna lie I probably wouldn't bother to do this as it's simply too time consuming selecting individual posts for splitting... though used to do it in the past I think.

What helps them in creating a "legitimate discussion" are ordinary users who do not understand what it is actually about, or understand but do not care.

Very true, the smart shills know how to game the system as it were. Open topic first and shill later, as it's a much "better" shilling tactic, much less obvious too.

If ever high-ranking users find themselves receiving negative karma, after feeding blatant shills, then this could well be the reason...

[Lucius]

Very true, the smart shills know how to game the system as it were. Open topic first and shill later, as it's a much "better" shilling tactic, much less obvious too.

If ever high-ranking users find themselves receiving negative karma, after feeding blatant shills, then this could well be the reason...

Just out of curiosity, do you think that those who consciously (or even unconsciously) feed such members should receive negative karma? I personally have never done it because it didn't seem appropriate to me, but it is difficult for me to understand when someone "supports" what is more than obviously a fake discussion with the aim of promoting someone or something.

On BTT there is also a problem with BG shills, and it was discovered that they receive their instructions via Discord. I personally don't use it, but for those who have it and want to take a look, there might be some interesting information.

Code: [Select]

https://discord.com/channels/876747633052499999/1275760873918431314/1275767724156649503

[dragononcrypto]

Very true, the smart shills know how to game the system as it were. Open topic first and shill later, as it's a much "better" shilling tactic, much less obvious too.

If ever high-ranking users find themselves receiving negative karma, after feeding blatant shills, then this could well be the reason...

Just out of curiosity, do you think that those who consciously (or even unconsciously) feed such members should receive negative karma? I personally have never done it because it didn't seem appropriate to me, but it is difficult for me to understand when someone "supports" what is more than obviously a fake discussion with the aim of promoting someone or something.

That's up to you to decide based on the rough guide for karma issuance, not me:

Negative karma is given to users who are misbehaving, breaking the rules, being aggressive or disruptive to the forum

Personally, when having to meticulously split a thread due to replies from high-ranking users who should know better, I find this very disruptive to what should be a simple a moderation process, so in the past I have issued -karma under the guise of disruptive to the forum. I don't think I've ever done this to users who unconsciously are engaging with shills, but when there is a well-documented problem, and users are seemingly aware of it and play along in order to more efficiently fulfil a signature quote, then sure I've been liberal with smite before.

However the correct thing to do would be messaging those users and ask them to stop feeding blatant shills, as more often than not they will be accepting of this request, but otherwise in times when there has been so much shilling it's almost taken over the forum then I quite frankly didn't have time for polite PMs. The exception being that if I'd already given -karma to a user for feeding shills, I would PM them in order to avoid repeatedly targeting a user, which could be considered karma abuse.

You'd probably be surprised how quickly respected members stop feeding shills once their karma drops by 1 or 2* to be honest. Because in these cases users are quite likely to go back through their posts to try and figure out why they might have received -karma. A post being moved to trash as part of a shill thread is a good indication of this, and often becomes a self-resolving issue. Obviously, I can't and shouldn't advocate that other users engage in this type of smiting, I can only speak to my own experience.

Bottom line: If you're not willing or able to defend yourself in the Forum Court or otherwise for distributing negative karma, then don't do it.

*Giving negative karma to a user you gave positive karma to in the past 10 hours will not only give -1 but will remove the +1 thus effectively resulting in -2.

[Lucius]

@dragononcrypto, I appreciate your opinion and I think that what you wrote will not only be useful for me but also for others. I completely agree that we can approach the problem by trying to somehow interest the members in trying to understand that they are doing something wrong in the hope that they will understand what is actually wrong.

Sending a PM is perhaps the most effective way to point something out to someone, but if you have 20 topics in which some have 3 or more pages each and which were all created with the intention of someone shilling something between the posts, then such a way becomes a very difficult mission as you wrote it yourself.

However, after everything, it seems to me that the number of BG shills is much smaller than before (maybe I'm wrong and they hide in boards that I don't visit).

+1

[Jokers]

However, after everything, it seems to me that the number of BG shills is much smaller than before (maybe I'm wrong and they hide in boards that I don't visit).

There are still many, they try to imitate ordinary users so it is clear not in each and every their post as it was earlier. And they also make many accounts starting with less obviously shilling and then shilling more. And they don't really care of holding accounts and their reputation. Argh!

[dragononcrypto]

However, after everything, it seems to me that the number of BG shills is much smaller than before (maybe I'm wrong and they hide in boards that I don't visit).

There are still many, they try to imitate ordinary users so it is clear not in each and every their post as it was earlier. And they also make many accounts starting with less obviously shilling and then shilling more. And they don't really care of holding accounts and their reputation. Argh!

As an update have sent warnings to half a dozen users, some received the badge and strikes as had already been warned and naturally ignoring advise to use IP section, a few of them multiple times already. Was a bit disappointed to see some users warned multiple times and still not tagged or given strikes, as most of the users could have been tagged sometime ago already based on previous warnings.


It turns out that they also seem to be working together quite a bit, I assume they see the reports of shill posts in the discord, and then jump on those threads. So at least it has made it easier to track down another handful of them by making the effort to split topics and move to IP, as it helped to expose more of them within these topics in the process. Some of the topics are in relatively inactive sections, so is very unlikely they'd be finding each others posts organically. If you go to IP section, you can now see how much BG shilling as been going on in just the past week alone.

The reality is 95% of users who are discussing Bitget are shilling it. Not all, some respectable members are also discussing, but the reality is the discussion is 99% of the time is raised by shills who are posting primarily about Bitget and not much else. So if you want to help keep the forum clean, when you see a newer user casually discussing Bitget, check their recent posts and see if that what they're doing most of the time. Then report them here and let mods do the rest: https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=112178.0

It might otherwise seem that this is just one of the most popular exchanges like Binance and OKX. This is exactly the deceptive trickery of the innovative ways in which these shill have been promoting the exchange. The reality is the exchange is only as popular as Kucoin and MEXC, which you hear much less about on this forum. I wouldn't be surprised if this exchange reached this level of popularity primarily because of shilling which is a worrying reality. As someone else put it in this thread, based on their deceptive marketing techniques, this is likely an FTX 2.0 waiting to happen.