✅ Ginger Wallet: Enjoy seamless Coinjoin integration

[ABCbits]

zkSNACKs doesn't run coordinator and Wasabi Wallet now require it's user to find and enter CoinJoin coordinator link manually, so this wallet could be more popular with some marketing. Anyway, does anyone know where InvisibleBit LLC. operate? I checked their legal document on which mention place called Próspera few times, but i'm not fully sure if i got it right.

You got it right, it Próspera.

Are there any specific reason for the LLC operate there? I did quick search, but the only relevant information i found Próspera is special economic zone and Bitcoin is a legal tender on there.

[hugeblack]

There was no copy-pasting, it was purely a fork plus minor changes (rebranding, coordinator URI). In the first period, Ginger's team will be focusing on marking to spread the news.

Yes, but do not forget that Wasabi is a wallet and therefore future updates to Ginger may be completely different from Wasabi and therefore there will be trust issues unless the Ginger developers are the same as Wasabi developers.


In general, it seems that in the next versions it will only be allowed to use the Ginger coordinator. Does this mean restricting who can download and use the wallet services? If not, it is better to focus on Ginger coordinator using Wasabi wallet instead of creating a fork.

[examplens]

In general, it seems that in the next versions it will only be allowed to use the Ginger coordinator. Does this mean restricting who can download and use the wallet services? If not, it is better to focus on Ginger coordinator using Wasabi wallet instead of creating a fork.

I just read this in the first post, maybe this is an update in the meantime.

Saturday, June 1st 2024—Effective immediately and until further notice, InvisibleBit LLC. is now blocking U.S. citizens and residents from visiting its websites, downloading and using Ginger Wallet and any related products and services, including APIs and RPC interfaces

[MrSpasybo]

What is even the point of an anonymity service if certain people are not allowed to use it?

Coin un-tainting service, that people from certain countries (IP addresses) cannot join?

I mean, this probably coordinates transactions from North Korea, and Russia (as it should be) but the developers scare themselves into keeping out transactions from the USA.

Then what will happen when other countries like the EU pass a similar measure? These wallets are going to regulate themselves out of existence.

1 BTC = 1 BTC. It does not matter where you are from.

I understand the position of these developers but Congress is not in a hurry to clarify coinjoins anytime soon and this is playing into their hands.

I believe that wallet applications with Coinjoin integration will continue to exist and be released, and the #DevelopmentTeam  can remain anonymous and profit from the crypto mixing service they provide. As long as user demand exists, wallets like Ginger will continue to make a profit to survive in the market.

We are in a period where crypto is trying to adapt and survive in a context where legal issues are becoming increasingly important. I hope that lawmakers will find a way to ensure the legitimate existence of Mixers in the future, although I think this is difficult to achieve because good anonymity comes with the potential for abuse by criminals and governments don't like that.

[NotATether]

In general, it seems that in the next versions it will only be allowed to use the Ginger coordinator. Does this mean restricting who can download and use the wallet services? If not, it is better to focus on Ginger coordinator using Wasabi wallet instead of creating a fork.

Talk about getting from bad to worse! 

I don't understand where the idea came from or why anyone would think it's a good idea to restrict wallets to use a specific coordinator. I mean, they are all the same anyway, at the end of the day, the only difference being their fees and where they get their BTC from. Especially when there are others like WasabiCoordinator and OpenCoordinator which are extremely similar to Ginger's.

[dkbit98]

In general, it seems that in the next versions it will only be allowed to use the Ginger coordinator. Does this mean restricting who can download and use the wallet services? If not, it is better to focus on Ginger coordinator using Wasabi wallet instead of creating a fork.

Just like I predicted, we have a new censorship wallet leader and it's ginger
I don't understand why anyone would want to use this wallet when there are alternatives without any censorship, unless they have some connection with governments and regulators.
Their silly excuse was answered as reply to my question, they think criminals won't be able to use their wallet... 

[pieppiep]

In general, it seems that in the next versions it will only be allowed to use the Ginger coordinator. Does this mean restricting who can download and use the wallet services? If not, it is better to focus on Ginger coordinator using Wasabi wallet instead of creating a fork.

Just like I predicted, we have a new censorship wallet leader and it's ginger
I don't understand why anyone would want to use this wallet when there are alternatives without any censorship, unless they have some connection with governments and regulators.
Their silly excuse was answered as reply to my question, they think criminals won't be able to use their wallet... 

A new wallet is very high risk, as you said, there are already other wallets that have higher security. With a new wallet there is no guarantee that the money we store there will remain safe. The money you think you will use in Cryptocurrency must be taken care of properly and not store all our assets only in the newly launched wallet.

[soosr]

I honestly understand your point of view, but please also take a look at the other side of the coin. We, as a service provider, want to provide anonymity for those users who deserve it, and not for criminals to do money laundry.
Years ago when Wasabi introduced censorship, everyone was super loud. Nowadays people have started to understand that this actually helps the adoption of Bitcoin to the world and from topics in Wasabi, it turned out that users actually care about who they mix with, they don't want to participate in a transaction with money laundering criminals.

From the Ginger team's point of view, this is the only way to provide anonymity for the users. Otherwise, it is just a matter of time before governments force you to stop. Everyone who runs a company in this industry knows this struggle.

Other people can be upset about the censorship, but it is Ginger's team who takes a risk and not them, we are aiming to do our job in the most legal way.

[ABCbits]

Years ago when Wasabi introduced censorship, everyone was super loud. Nowadays people have started to understand that this actually helps the adoption of Bitcoin to the world and from topics in Wasabi, it turned out that users actually care about who they mix with, they don't want to participate in a transaction with money laundering criminals.

Just wondering, how do you know user actually care about who they mix with? Did you run a survey or something like that?

[God Of Thunder]

I am sorry Mr. Freemind but I believe Crypto Wallets is the best board to discuss a wallet than the Bitcoin forum board. I believe you are handling that board as well. Only a few days ago the forum admin gave me 10 negative Karma just because I had created a thread on the wrong board and he was extremely angry with me. I tried to convince him saying I was confused because there are a lot of boards on this forum and I didn't understand where to create this thread. It was an honest mistake and I haven't done this before. But I failed to convince him and the punishment remained the same. 

[dkbit98]

I honestly understand your point of view, but please also take a look at the other side of the coin. We, as a service provider, want to provide anonymity for those users who deserve it, and not for criminals to do money laundry.

One who ''deserve it'' ?! 
So if criminal politicians use bitcoin that is not in your registry as evil criminal coins, than you are going to use some magical powers to not allow them coinjoin?

Other people can be upset about the censorship, but it is Ginger's team who takes a risk and not them, we are aiming to do our job in the most legal way.

I don't think that Ginger wallet have any future with this attitude, especially when there are many other coordinators available.
Only thing that can happen is to see some of your team members get busted by government for some stupid reason.
You are also hurting overall bitcoin ecosystem and supporting worldwide censorship.

[Freemind]

What is even the point of an anonymity service if certain people are not allowed to use it?

Coin un-tainting service, that people from certain countries (IP addresses) cannot join?

I mean, this probably coordinates transactions from North Korea, and Russia (as it should be) but the developers scare themselves into keeping out transactions from the USA.

Then what will happen when other countries like the EU pass a similar measure? These wallets are going to regulate themselves out of existence.

1 BTC = 1 BTC. It does not matter where you are from.

I understand the position of these developers but Congress is not in a hurry to clarify coinjoins anytime soon and this is playing into their hands.

Developers get scared and avoid transactions from the United States mainly because it is the United States authorities who pursue this type of services. As long as that remains the same and does not change in the future (which I highly doubt) I think things will remain the same with respect to transactions coming from that country. I think that in this matter the Ginger Wallet team is doing the right thing, since they have no other options. From the "outside" things always seem different.

[NotATether]

Developers get scared and avoid transactions from the United States mainly because it is the United States authorities who pursue this type of services. As long as that remains the same and does not change in the future (which I highly doubt) I think things will remain the same with respect to transactions coming from that country. I think that in this matter the Ginger Wallet team is doing the right thing, since they have no other options. From the "outside" things always seem different.

Well, restricting the coordinator to Ginger Wallet is definitely not something that you can objectively say is the "right thing".

That is something that is going to be very harmful since it's basically announcing that "We are willing to limit our backend services to our own wallets, and vice versa" which reminds me a lot of Apple.

IMO It should be available for Wasabi Wallet too.

[dkbit98]

That is something that is going to be very harmful since it's basically announcing that "We are willing to limit our backend services to our own wallets, and vice versa" which reminds me a lot of Apple.

What is next on their agenda?
Maybe going closed source, getting approved by WEF, and restricting access to everyone from EU and other ''dangerous'' regions in the world.
In future only residents from Papua New Guinea will be able to use Ginger wallet. 

[NotATether]

Maybe going closed source, getting approved by WEF, and restricting access to everyone from EU and other ''dangerous'' regions in the world.

On a more serious note, I do think the EU is in danger in regards to this. It was only a few months ago when they tried to pass anti-mixer legislation, anyway.

All it takes is Europol posting one advisory discouraging EU citizens from using mixers and coordinators or whatever and before you know it, everyone is going to be putting planks on their windows again.