[Exit Scam] RoyalMix.io

[bee]

It seems like a good idea but has the forum reached the stage of convincing them to deposit 1 bitcoin or 0.5 bitcoin?

Admin can go with multisig wallet, appoint some members as escrow team (decision makers) including campaign manager. Escrow team should be listed publicly here. If company trust marketing fund to single manager, I think they are also willing to trust to keep fund in this forum in above manner.

It sounds like a good idea but problem is that it's hard to set amount of coins that should be deposited in escrow service.

We should not specify amount, mixer can decide any amount. But we can make agreement with company that information about escrow fund should also be announced clearly in a corner of their official website for few years (or after fund is no longer escrowed).

[Z-tight]

We should not specify amount, mixer can decide any amount. But we can make agreement with company that information about escrow fund should also be announced clearly in a corner of their official website for few years (or after fund is no longer escrowed).

It is a good idea if clients can see the amount that the mixer has escrowed, however, a mixer that wants to scam will likely scam many clients, and at that point, the escrowed amount will no longer be sufficient to cover individual liabilities and each of the victims will be very lucky to get even 25% of the amount they lost.

[Freemind]

Admin can go with multisig wallet, appoint some members as escrow team (decision makers) including campaign manager. Escrow team should be listed publicly here. If company trust marketing fund to single manager, I think they are also willing to trust to keep fund in this forum in above manner.

What you say would be one of the best ideas I've read so far and would also be one of the safest for all parties involved. A multisig wallet where the mixer team, campaign manager and administrator were the necessary parties to be able to withdraw funds would make the mixer and the campaign much more reliable and would ensure that no one put their hand where they shouldn't when they shouldn't, as unfortunately we have seen on too many occasions. I think the most difficult thing about all this is for the team to reach an agreement, since I don't think there will be any problem reaching an agreement with the other two parties.

+1.

[examplens]

It seems that of the Mixers that need escrow, only Joker is left here (for them, a deposit is definitely necessary given that they were previously associated with RoyalMix). At least they could help with the investigation, since they should have the original contacts of RoyalMix personnel.

I think they claimed to share the similar code with RoyalMix and they are the one who identified some suspicious changes.
It would be good to hear more from them.

I understood that one or more developers were involved in the development of both mixers, although their conclusion in the end indicates that they may have had different information at that moment.
They also said here that they will deal only with their service.

We initially denied the message because we were not aware and were not personally involved in the RoyalMix project. However, upon further inspection and thanks to the warning from (Klq!@Gjqoqp./), we discovered that a portion of the source code is being used in the RoyalMix project. They are solely using the interface of our JokerMix site, although they do not employ the same mixing and anonymity method as JokerMix, which can be easily verified by mixing between the two projects. As for why RoyalMix and JokerMix are using a portion of the source code, it is a matter between developers and teams, and regarding this, we remain neutral and will not destroy RoyalMix or its reputation.

Our sole focus is our project JokerMix and its future. We will only take note of your feedback regarding JokerMix, including your questions, suggestions, and bug reports, as described any other comments not related to JokerMix will not receive a response.

[dkbit98]

I understood that one or more developers were involved in the development of both mixers, although their conclusion in the end indicates that they may have had different information at that moment.
They also said here that they will deal only with their service.

That was all said before RoyalMix exist scammed and stole coins from a customer.
They can continue to ignore this and pretend that never happened but it could hurt them also because of developer-code connection.
People who want to use their mixer could also be more suspicious about them after recent incident happened.

[KingsDen]

It's unfortunate it happens this way. I knew that scam will be much immediate theymos pushed mixers out of BTT. Icopress, and other managers, continue pushing and very soon here will be very popular that mixers will have to escrow large amount with managers here before they can promote.

I agree that is the only way to avoid scam mixers they need to escrow a big amount with managers and the offered service should have a limit they can only mix below the escrowed amount so that once the mixers have a problem with the stuck transaction or it becomes scam then manager can use escrow amount to pay affected clients.

Right now, it's really hard to find a mixer just like a legit chipmixer before who stayed for many years.

And as far as I can remember, maybe around the 2018 time frame when we have a new mixer is place, the first thing we asked about them is to escrow funds to at least show their 'legitimacy'. However, I can't remember if this is still the norm or the practice ever since.

Most likely if there is a new mixer in the picture, perhaps we would ask them to do, but for how long will it be in the escrow?

This is actually a perfect arrangement to solve the problems of scam. How did such a beautiful arrangement get distracted on the way. This industry is about trustlessness, why have we started to trust unknown developers with our funds. Is there ever a time we can get it right again?

In this case 30 days is a short amount of time as they were able to withdraw their escrows because there are no untoward incidents. But everyone was caught off-guard when they suddenly went offline and scam someone.

Is there even supposed to be a time frame? If I know that the duration is 30 days, I could possibly endure the 30 days and then pull the rug.

They requested a withdrawal on another forum a few days ago (+30 days). The user who lost the bitcoins allowed to send a letter of guarantee to the admin of another forum to suspend their withdrawal. The letter was sent (I have not received a response yet).

Very nice move. I wish the admin of that platform is yet to process the transaction. I hate it when people are seriously devicing means to rake others.

[Z-tight]

This is actually a perfect arrangement to solve the problems of scam. How did such a beautiful arrangement get distracted on the way. This industry is about trustlessness, why have we started to trust unknown developers with our funds. Is there ever a time we can get it right again?

Mixers are not trustless services, whenever you use a mixer, you ought to know that you lose custody of your funds during the mixing process, so no matter how you look at it, you have to 'trust' the mixer to deposit your mixed funds into your receiving address. As for escrowing funds, it will help to limit scams, and could also discourage scam mixers from attempting to scam.

[KingsDen]

This is actually a perfect arrangement to solve the problems of scam. How did such a beautiful arrangement get distracted on the way. This industry is about trustlessness, why have we started to trust unknown developers with our funds. Is there ever a time we can get it right again?

Mixers are not trustless services, whenever you use a mixer, you ought to know that you lose custody of your funds during the mixing process, so no matter how you look at it, you have to 'trust' the mixer to deposit your mixed funds into your receiving address. As for escrowing funds, it will help to limit scams, and could also discourage scam mixers from attempting to scam.

I said the industry is about trustlessness and not mixers. When I say the industry, I mean the cryptocurrency industry and when we talk about cryptocurrency, our first contact idea should be bitcoin.  Bitcoin network is a trustless one, even if it has metamorphosed over the years.

[Kemarit]

It's unfortunate it happens this way. I knew that scam will be much immediate theymos pushed mixers out of BTT. Icopress, and other managers, continue pushing and very soon here will be very popular that mixers will have to escrow large amount with managers here before they can promote.

I agree that is the only way to avoid scam mixers they need to escrow a big amount with managers and the offered service should have a limit they can only mix below the escrowed amount so that once the mixers have a problem with the stuck transaction or it becomes scam then manager can use escrow amount to pay affected clients.

Right now, it's really hard to find a mixer just like a legit chipmixer before who stayed for many years.

And as far as I can remember, maybe around the 2018 time frame when we have a new mixer is place, the first thing we asked about them is to escrow funds to at least show their 'legitimacy'. However, I can't remember if this is still the norm or the practice ever since.

Most likely if there is a new mixer in the picture, perhaps we would ask them to do, but for how long will it be in the escrow?

This is actually a perfect arrangement to solve the problems of scam. How did such a beautiful arrangement get distracted on the way. This industry is about trustlessness, why have we started to trust unknown developers with our funds. Is there ever a time we can get it right again?

In this case 30 days is a short amount of time as they were able to withdraw their escrows because there are no untoward incidents. But everyone was caught off-guard when they suddenly went offline and scam someone.

Is there even supposed to be a time frame? If I know that the duration is 30 days, I could possibly endure the 30 days and then pull the rug.

They requested a withdrawal on another forum a few days ago (+30 days). The user who lost the bitcoins allowed to send a letter of guarantee to the admin of another forum to suspend their withdrawal. The letter was sent (I have not received a response yet).

Very nice move. I wish the admin of that platform is yet to process the transaction. I hate it when people are seriously devicing means to rake others.

The time frame is being used by escrows, or that information is usually included in such cases, and that is the standard duration, 30-60 days. But I do agree that here, there could be no timeframes, but I guess if they really want to rug pull then they really know the duration and that they can fulfill that time frame and get gain the trust until someone falls and use their services with a big amount of Bitcoin for this scammers to consider their rug pull.

But if ever this community will be escrow, things have to be change like the time frame and probably the amount of Bitcoin that should be deposited as well.

[dkbit98]

Mixers are not trustless services, whenever you use a mixer, you ought to know that you lose custody of your funds during the mixing process, so no matter how you look at it, you have to 'trust' the mixer to deposit your mixed funds into your receiving address.

Unless they become more decentralized and work similar like coinjoin, I think this should be they way forward for most mixers right now.
Making something more decentralized is not easy task but it would increase trust with customers, liquidity would also increase, and scams would decrease.
Maybe this would also make harder for anyone to seize and shut down their business.

[Z-tight]

I said the industry is about trustlessness and not mixers. When I say the industry, I mean the cryptocurrency industry and when we talk about cryptocurrency, our first contact idea should be bitcoin.  Bitcoin network is a trustless one, even if it has metamorphosed over the years.

I understood perfectly what you were saying, and my post was specifically to this line of your post: 'why have we started to trust unknown developers with our funds', now if you look at that line and what i said, my post should be clear to you. If you want to use a trustless privacy solution, then you have to use coinjoin and not mixers, as long as mixers are concerned, it has never been trustless, and take note that escrowing funds does not change that.

[KingsDen]

I said the industry is about trustlessness and not mixers. When I say the industry, I mean the cryptocurrency industry and when we talk about cryptocurrency, our first contact idea should be bitcoin.  Bitcoin network is a trustless one, even if it has metamorphosed over the years.

I understood perfectly what you were saying, and my post was specifically to this line of your post: 'why have we started to trust unknown developers with our funds', now if you look at that line and what i said, my post should be clear to you. If you want to use a trustless privacy solution, then you have to use coinjoin and not mixers, as long as mixers are concerned, it has never been trustless, and take note that escrowing funds does not change that.

Ok, I understand the line you addressed and not the whole idea. Ofcourse mixers are not trustless, the idea of a bitcoin mixer is sacrificing trust to get privacy.

[SamReomo]

People who want to use their mixer could also be more suspicious about them after recent incident happened.

Yes, that's a valid point but other than code the both mixers have no correlations and that's why we can't say that both of those are owned by same team. However, your point is genuine as now people who used RoyalMix (The Scam Exist Mixer) may also try to avoid JokerMix. But, if JokerMix somehow proves that they aren't correlated to RoyalMix then that could be a useful thing for them.

[NotATether]

People who want to use their mixer could also be more suspicious about them after recent incident happened.

Yes, that's a valid point but other than code the both mixers have no correlations and that's why we can't say that both of those are owned by same team. However, your point is genuine as now people who used RoyalMix (The Scam Exist Mixer) may also try to avoid JokerMix. But, if JokerMix somehow proves that they aren't correlated to RoyalMix then that could be a useful thing for them.

That's actually simple to prove. Both used different PGP keys for their letters of guarantee, so if one of them accidentally signs a message with the other then it would prove a common ownership. Until then though, we can't assume anything.

I imagine it would be a PITA to copy the PHP files though. Even I wasn't able to do that during my tests.

[dkbit98]

But, if JokerMix somehow proves that they aren't correlated to RoyalMix then that could be a useful thing for them.

I wash trying to get as much information from them as I could, and they are claiming they are not directly connected with this mixer, but they won't provide any proof for that.
I don't want to insist further and everyone should decide if they want to take risks with them or not.