Negative karma with an explanation

[Lucius]

Considering that we had, and I am sure that in the future, we will have a lot of discussions about the karma system (especially negative karma), an idea came to my mind that could somehow bring a touch of clarification in this regard.

My idea would be to provide an option for giving negative karma so that each user can write the reason for giving it. In this way, each user could receive a message with an explanation and accordingly to that correct the mistakes due to which he received negative karma - and at the same time everything would still remain anonymous.

I don't know how easy or difficult something like that would be technically feasible, but I think the members would appreciate it.

[Freemind]

I seem to remember that a user put a very similar idea on the table a while ago. Although it seems like a good idea to me, I don't know how effective it could be, since in some way we would be "forcing" an explanation, an explanation, if necessary, seems correct to me, but I'm sure that would also cause complaints from some users. As for the difficulty on the technical side, I don't know if it would be possible to do it, since any modification always entails bugs, crashes, problems with the forum... But that is something that the administrator should clarify.

I seem to remember that the previous proposal did not have much progress. Anyway, if I find the post I'll put it here.

[PX-Z]

My idea would be to provide an option for giving negative karma so that each user can write the reason for giving it. In this way, each user could receive a message with an explanation and accordingly to that correct the mistakes due to which he received negative karma - and at the same time everything would still remain anonymous.

Pre made texts as select option with all possible kind of reasons for -karma would be much better because imagine if anyone can write anything like any offensive and vulgar language including local languages, that will be a discouragement for the one receiving the message.

[dragononcrypto]

Makes sense to me and could be useful, providing the user giving the negative karma remains anonymous etc. If the reason is optional to give then it wouldn't be forcing any users to provide a reason and in reality if users can't justify why they are giving negative karma than they shouldn't be smiting the first place. Ideally it'd help users to avoid making mistakes and give them an opportunity to learn from receiving negative karma, as at present it's not possible to know why you received it, even if sometimes uses can guess why they have based on recent posts etc. My only concern would be based on the difficulty to implement such an update, that if it's not a built in option to the forum software, it would likely be very difficult to implement.

[target]

Karma doesn't reflect on the trader system afaik it will not affect trust. I think it would be no use to do that as it only create awry feeling for anyone to engage a user with negative karma. And in the end users judge each due to the comments (explaination).

Theymos did this to his forum, it only gave the DT the rights to ruin each others reputation. Trader system is where the trust is to be built.

[dragononcrypto]

Theymos did this to his forum, it only gave the DT the rights to ruin each others reputation. Trader system is where the trust is to be built.

I think you may have misunderstood the proposal here. The suggestion wasn't to have negative karma messages somehow logged on users profiles for all to see, as a form of trust/karma feedback, but instead to provide private messages to the user.

[Stompix]

My idea would be to provide an option for giving negative karma so that each user can write the reason for giving it. In this way, each user could receive a message with an explanation and accordingly to that correct the mistakes due to which he received negative karma - and at the same time everything would still remain anonymous.

So if I get this right the user would receive a message with an explanation written by the one giving negative karma but he won't know the user, he will only get an anonymous feedback entry, right? I do see a few advantages in this, more in stopping abuse since they would need to write something down that makes sense rather than hammering down with iminuses every reply but I'm a bit skeptical on the implementation.

Pre made texts as select option with all possible kind of reasons for -karma would be much better because imagine if anyone can write anything like any offensive and vulgar language including local languages, that will be a discouragement for the one receiving the message.

Why would you do this when it could easily get reported?

[dragononcrypto]

Pre made texts as select option with all possible kind of reasons for -karma would be much better because imagine if anyone can write anything like any offensive and vulgar language including local languages, that will be a discouragement for the one receiving the message.

Why would you do this when it could easily get reported?

Assuming the messages would appear in the (hidden) karma log, I don't think this would be a an issue either, as would be a very dumb thing to do.

Including the 5 (valid) reasons why users receive negative karma as options could be useful though.

[bitterguy28]

I don't know how effective it could be, since in some way we would be "forcing" an explanation, an explanation, if necessary, seems correct to me, but I'm sure that would also cause complaints from some users.

that would also definitely result to heated discussions and arguments because one party will consider the negative karma unfair while the other will think it is just and right this can make people more wary of giving out negative karmas whether that’s good or not is up for interpretation

As for the difficulty on the technical side, I don't know if it would be possible to do it, since any modification always entails bugs, crashes, problems with the forum... But that is something that the administrator should clarify.

any new modifications will surely encounter challenges at first but i am sure as time will pass by it will improve and sooner or later it will run smoothly just like the rest of the forum

[Lucius]

I seem to remember that a user put a very similar idea on the table a while ago.
---
I seem to remember that the previous proposal did not have much progress. Anyway, if I find the post I'll put it here.

I assume that it could be before account teleportation with BTT was enabled, because I can't remember anyone suggesting something similar since I've been on the forum.

Although it seems like a good idea to me, I don't know how effective it could be, since in some way we would be "forcing" an explanation, an explanation, if necessary, seems correct to me, but I'm sure that would also cause complaints from some users.
~snip~

It would be effective in the sense that there should be no more complaints from members who would ask "why did I get negative karma" considering that they would get an explanation for such an act. I don't see why anyone would mind having to justify their decision, except those who abuse karma and would consider it a waste of time.

+1

Pre made texts as select option with all possible kind of reasons for -karma would be much better because imagine if anyone can write anything like any offensive and vulgar language including local languages, that will be a discouragement for the one receiving the message.

It makes sense, and if we take into account that there are clear rules when negative karma can be given to someone, then the predefined reasons could be a kind of guide to how to use karma for some members.

+1

~snip~
My only concern would be based on the difficulty to implement such an update, that if it's not a built in option to the forum software, it would likely be very difficult to implement.

Perhaps the "report to moderator" function could help with this, considering that it works on a somewhat similar principle - the user selects that option in a certain post, and in a new window he has to write the reason for reporting that same post. Perhaps negative karma could follow the same principle, and an additional benefit would be that no one could mistakenly give negative karma, as is the case now, because the procedure does not require any confirmation.

+1

So if I get this right the user would receive a message with an explanation written by the one giving negative karma but he won't know the user, he will only get an anonymous feedback entry, right? I do see a few advantages in this, more in stopping abuse since they would need to write something down that makes sense rather than hammering down with iminuses every reply but I'm a bit skeptical on the implementation.
~snip~

That's right, only my focus would not be on the abuse, but on the one who received negative karma getting information about why it happened. If someone would accept such information in a positive way, then he could correct his mistakes and reduce the possibility of receiving the same "punishment" for the same thing in the future.

+1

[KingsDen]

Imagine recieving a -1 and a message accompanied it and you opened the message and it reads thus; "You are a modafuka, that's why I gave you -1".
Then the person that received the -1 and notification will likely create a topic about it and the drama continues. The admin will likely want to check the karma log to see who wrote that. In the end, you gave an option for explanation, and anyone might decide to be an idiot and explain rubbish.

It's a nice idea, maybe it needs some modification. Making it optional could also be as good as not implementing it.

[Freemind]

Imagine recieving a -1 and a message accompanied it and you opened the message and it reads thus; "You are a modafuka, that's why I gave you -1".
Then the person that received the -1 and notification will likely create a topic about it and the drama continues. The admin will likely want to check the karma log to see who wrote that. In the end, you gave an option for explanation, and anyone might decide to be an idiot and explain rubbish.

It's a nice idea, maybe it needs some modification. Making it optional could also be as good as not implementing it.

If giving an explanation about Negative Karma was optional, I don't think anyone would use it when the reason wasn't normal or obvious, and I also don't think it would be used simply to insult because, as you say, the administrator would take action, and the user would be penalized in some way.

The problem with this would be to implement it in the forum and it would not cause any type of error, so many tests would be necessary and that would cause errors in the forum, crashes and problems for the administrator and the users.

[KingsDen]

Xxx

If giving an explanation about Negative Karma was optional, I don't think anyone would use it when the reason wasn't normal or obvious, and I also don't think it would be used simply to insult because, as you say, the administrator would take action, and the user would be penalized in some way.

Yea, majority will not use the explanation box if it is made optional. Making it mandatory would make may people lose interest in giving - karma and that might lead to increased spam. If I give a -karma, having to explain my reasons for that means I honestly want the victim to change, which is a nice gesture.

The problem with this would be to implement it in the forum and it would not cause any type of error, so many tests would be necessary and that would cause errors in the forum, crashes and problems for the administrator and the users.

If trying to implement it will return so much errors, maybe the risk might not worth it. Which is why the admin has decided to be adamant to the karma suggestions all over the forum.

[bitmover]

Considering that we had, and I am sure that in the future, we will have a lot of discussions about the karma system (especially negative karma), an idea came to my mind that could somehow bring a touch of clarification in this regard.

My idea would be to provide an option for giving negative karma so that each user can write the reason for giving it. In this way, each user could receive a message with an explanation and accordingly to that correct the mistakes due to which he received negative karma - and at the same time everything would still remain anonymous.

I don't know how easy or difficult something like that would be technically feasible, but I think the members would appreciate it.

This could be something like an option to send a private message to the user who receives it.
It would be cool if that could be anonymous as well

[NotATether]

This could be something like an option to send a private message to the user who receives it.
It would be cool if that could be anonymous as well

But the only problem with this whole set up is, a person could give you negative karma for no reason at all!

As an example, just for demonstration purposes: I just game you -karma on this post (don't mind me [I've undone it a few minutes later]). But I don't actually have any reason for doing so. So what would I write inside the private message that is sent to you?

Most people who do this will either write spam, or some insults. So I don't like this user-generated PMs thing.