Do you use a password manager?

[bitmover]

A person with weak phantasy always comes up with weak and similar passwords. Maybe someone can notice similarities among my passwords, but they dont look the same to me.  They arent just words or combination of words. Or a word that ends with "123", "777" or year of my birthday by the end. No doubt that password manager can randomize letter, number and symbol combinations quicker, but I can also generate something like that.

Even if you are as good as machine , you just can't randomize that much.

And what will do if you need to login in Airline company page to buy a ticket when you are at work? You can't access your password, they are home.

Your life will be a frequent reset passwords , which will be totally crazy and inconvenient. If you can remember them , they are extremely weak. You have certainly nearly 1000 logins. Just from BTT casinos and other services related there are many dozens of different logins.

Here is a random picture from the web. Green arrow is where is your password is store and what will be stolen or searched for password immediately. Red arrows are places where my paper or papers with passwords might be.

The passwords are not in the computer, but secured with professional encryption and strong passwords, when uou use a password manager...

[libert19]

I dont try to say that your password manager app is better or worse than my method of storing passwords. Both have its pros and cons. I simply prefer my method more, because I find it more safe. Even it device is protected by password or it is hard/impossible to bruteforce it, it will still be discomfort for losing gadgets, spending time to recover everything.

It's convenient with password managers to restore data — you install app on new device, import backup file, enter encryption password and you are ready.

With keeping everything on a device, in case something goes wrong, you dont lose only access to list of password on it, you lose also all the info you had on your drives. Those who keep password in a manager that is protected by password, I really hope you dont forget that password.

I switch devices regularly anyway, it's of very little inconvenience to switch and import data.

P.S. where do you keep password that protects your password manager? In other manager or memorized it?

It's memorized.

[bitbit97]

A person with weak phantasy always comes up with weak and similar passwords. Maybe someone can notice similarities among my passwords, but they dont look the same to me.  They arent just words or combination of words. Or a word that ends with "123", "777" or year of my birthday by the end. No doubt that password manager can randomize letter, number and symbol combinations quicker, but I can also generate something like that.

Even if you are as good as machine , you just can't randomize that much.

And what will do if you need to login in Airline company page to buy a ticket when you are at work? You can't access your password, they are home.

Your life will be a frequent reset passwords , which will be totally crazy and inconvenient. If you can remember them , they are extremely weak. You have certainly nearly 1000 logins. Just from BTT casinos and other services related there are many dozens of different logins.

Here is a random picture from the web. Green arrow is where is your password is store and what will be stolen or searched for password immediately. Red arrows are places where my paper or papers with passwords might be.

The passwords are not in the computer, but secured with professional encryption and strong passwords, when uou use a password manager...

I simply dont right down all, I mean all the login and passwords. Crypto is separated from daily expenses. When I have to buy a plane ticket, I just get out my wallet with a card. If I need to buy movie tickets and to get discount, I login into cinema page but such passwords I dont store on my paper. But, everything related crypto, emails, logins, passwords, seed and etc - such info is on a separate piece of paper. Ledger is with me all the time also. I dont make a mess of 1000+ passwords stores on a paper (it would be a notebook then). I would not either store 1000+ passwords in a manager either. I guess everyone is familiar with "eggs in one basket".

The passwords are not in the computer, but secured with professional encryption and strong passwords, when uou use a password manager...

The idea was not to show that "password is in computer", but to show where someone except you will try to search for it. Ok, its encrypted, but a fact that someone sees password manager and tries to get access into it wont make you happy. Anyway, do you really believe that your master password will never be compromised?

[bitmover]

I simply dont right down all, I mean all the login and passwords. Crypto is separated from daily expenses. When I have to buy a plane ticket, I just get out my wallet with a card. If I need to buy movie tickets and to get discount, I login into cinema page but such passwords I dont store on my paper.

You also need to login into the airlines page to get miles for example. It just becomes too much waste of time and energy to put everything in paper, because you just can't carry that paper everywhere.

I think most people that are talking about paper are people who never used a password manager...

But, everything related crypto, emails, logins, passwords, seed and etc - such info is on a separate piece of paper. Ledger is with me all the time also. I dont make a mess of 1000+ passwords stores on a paper (it would be a notebook then). I would not either store 1000+ passwords in a manager either. I guess everyone is familiar with "eggs in one basket".

You can just store all those 1000+ insecure passwords for services which doesnt need too much security. There isnt any problem if someone logs into my airline company page and see where I have been in the past. Or logged into the cinema page I see my past buys. Nobody can steal me anyting from those services most of the time...

[libert19]

^ I guess that's right way to do it. If you don't trust password managers enough for sensitive info, use them for irrelevant sites, keep notebook backups for sensitive info.

[bitbit97]

I simply dont right down all, I mean all the login and passwords. Crypto is separated from daily expenses. When I have to buy a plane ticket, I just get out my wallet with a card. If I need to buy movie tickets and to get discount, I login into cinema page but such passwords I dont store on my paper.

You also need to login into the airlines page to get miles for example. It just becomes too much waste of time and energy to put everything in paper, because you just can't carry that paper everywhere.

I think most people that are talking about paper are people who never used a password manager...

Completely opposite experience. I have been using password managers for quite a time, but two fails forced my to stop using them.

1) First fail happened when my disk drive died. That time managers did not have feature to upload a backup to cloud service. That time cloud service did not even exist. That time I did not make any backup on usb flash drive or store somewhere else. All my data has gone forever. Trying to recover data in service center was costly as they price per recovered GB, and did not give any guarantee that data will be 100% restored, nor can not name what will be restored.

2) My backpack with laptop and ipad was stolen from hotel lobby in Lisbon when I was checking-in. Guy ran, took my bag and ran away. No help from hotel or police... Anyway, the password manager wasnt making any backups either. Or maybe that feature wasnt turned on. Or I took decision not to recover all that, because there was a chance laptop password might be hacked and a person might get access to cloud. Or maybe I was to angry on that situation and decided to start everything from the start. I dont remember right now.

Nevertheless. Twice I had lost all my saved passwords. Since then. I keep passwords for unevaluable data straight in the browser. I dont care if someone get access to my cinema account and see what movies I have been to and when. Dont care if someone finds out login and password from online pet store, and see which canned cat food I have ordered. But everything that is related money, an app or a page where I have balance, passwords are store on a paper.

[ABCbits]

P.S. where do you keep password that protects your password manager? In other manager or memorized it?

Most people (who use password manager) probably memorize it. But you also could store the password or encryption key using device such as YubiKey or any storage drive that you hide securely.

The idea was not to show that "password is in computer", but to show where someone except you will try to search for it. Ok, its encrypted, but a fact that someone sees password manager and tries to get access into it wont make you happy. Anyway, do you really believe that your master password will never be compromised?

Yes (within human lifespan), assuming you use strong password and the password manager software use very strong encryption algorithm.

[bitbit97]

Those who use password managers, maybe you can advice something specific and give an explanation of your choice. Would be great it what would be compared with managers mentioned on first pages of topic. Its hard to switch from paper to password manager or even try using a password manager when all we have is "I love to use" and "<name> is the best". At least name must features for password manager. Automatic backup and its storage in cloud? Encryption? Supports any OS?

[bitmover]

I simply dont right down all, I mean all the login and passwords. Crypto is separated from daily expenses. When I have to buy a plane ticket, I just get out my wallet with a card. If I need to buy movie tickets and to get discount, I login into cinema page but such passwords I dont store on my paper.

You also need to login into the airlines page to get miles for example. It just becomes too much waste of time and energy to put everything in paper, because you just can't carry that paper everywhere.

I think most people that are talking about paper are people who never used a password manager...

Completely opposite experience. I have been using password managers for quite a time, but two fails forced my to stop using them.

1) First fail happened when my disk drive died. That time managers did not have feature to upload a backup to cloud service. That time cloud service did not even exist. That time I did not make any backup on usb flash drive or store somewhere else. All my data has gone forever. Trying to recover data in service center was costly as they price per recovered GB, and did not give any guarantee that data will be 100% restored, nor can not name what will be restored.

2) My backpack with laptop and ipad was stolen from hotel lobby in Lisbon when I was checking-in. Guy ran, took my bag and ran away. No help from hotel or police... Anyway, the password manager wasnt making any backups either. Or maybe that feature wasnt turned on. Or I took decision not to recover all that, because there was a chance laptop password might be hacked and a person might get access to cloud. Or maybe I was to angry on that situation and decided to start everything from the start. I dont remember right now.

Nevertheless. Twice I had lost all my saved passwords. Since then. I keep passwords for unevaluable data straight in the browser. I dont care if someone get access to my cinema account and see what movies I have been to and when. Dont care if someone finds out login and password from online pet store, and see which canned cat food I have ordered. But everything that is related money, an app or a page where I have balance, passwords are store on a paper.

You had an experience with a bad password manager.

THere are many good  password managers which are secure and have cloud support. You wouldnt lose anything in both situations you mentioned.

I can recommend Firefox password manager and Proton Pass. Both very good and have cloud support.

[libert19]

Those who use password managers, maybe you can advice something specific and give an explanation of your choice. Would be great it what would be compared with managers mentioned on first pages of topic. Its hard to switch from paper to password manager or even try using a password manager when all we have is "I love to use" and "<name> is the best". At least name must features for password manager. Automatic backup and its storage in cloud? Encryption? Supports any OS?

This statement sounds ignorant. Comments so far have replied more on less on what you are asking. You also have Google to go in-depth on password managers mentioned here.

[bitbit97]

Those who use password managers, maybe you can advice something specific and give an explanation of your choice. Would be great it what would be compared with managers mentioned on first pages of topic. Its hard to switch from paper to password manager or even try using a password manager when all we have is "I love to use" and "<name> is the best". At least name must features for password manager. Automatic backup and its storage in cloud? Encryption? Supports any OS?

This statement sounds ignorant. Comments so far have replied more on less on what you are asking. You also have Google to go in-depth on password managers mentioned here.

Thought that forum is a place where a person can also ask something and get an answer, instead of spending hours googling info and separating truth from false. I have asked for personal experience, you send me to read articles in google. Thank you, your post really helped me. A link in first post with table created in 2022 has every necessary and up-to-date info.

[Cryptsafe]

You see, you have already experience of being hacked, you have already a negative experience with storing passwords on a device/software. But have you ever experienced of being robbed? Or a situation that someone stole something physical from you? I believe during your life people stole something from you, but I think that were wallet/money, or a gadget. Nobody would ever stole a notebook, book or piece of paper from you. You see where i'm going with this, nobody think of checking most obvious place of storying info and pay attention directly to devices or something digital.

This is food for thought. Truly, nobody thinks of stealing a book or paper from anybody because they are worthless and have no value. Yet, books and papers hold valuable access to treasures that could turn around an individual's perspective, reasoning, and mentality within minutes of reading them. They can store or hold vital sensitive information as it relates to private keys and details of important information we need. It is obvious that people do not see this aspect of safety for their online information as it is not valued for any reason and another being the fact that laziness is just always an excuse.

Laziness? Not really. I have replied here before, I find paper backups really fragile, simply can't get myself to have enough confidence in these. Sure, it could be one type of backup, but only? Nope.

If you store password digitally, then between you and me, hacker have more chances to get you. A theft must work on a tip to break my locks, go to room and search table for a paper with passwords. I bet if someone breaks in, they would take quickly what is valuable in the hall, or go to living room, grab TV, consoles, laptops and run. In your case, just one mistake and extra click, and someone is already looking through your PC for valuable info, passwords, logins. What can happen to my paper? If I fold it million times it can be destroyed, if one of family members will through it away - but is unlikely to happen, as I keep my work table organized. Papers does not look like rubbish to be thrown away.

I used to use lastpass which was apparently hacked — no loss to me but out of caution I moved to offline password managers — here you write passwords offline, these apps don't have Internet access, and backups are encrypted with password that I alone know (I haven't stored this password anywhere), even if someone gets access to backups they can't access data without password. I find this very safe.

If I may ask you, you call them apps right? Are the apps not stored on your phone? is your phone not connected to the internet? did you not give the apps access to your device? As long as it is an app you have used to store your password on your phone, you can be exposed to danger at any given time if your phone is connected to internet services. It is still not safer than paper storage which only you have access to and can be gotten at any time when needed without the need to connect or request internet access.

[libert19]

You see, you have already experience of being hacked, you have already a negative experience with storing passwords on a device/software. But have you ever experienced of being robbed? Or a situation that someone stole something physical from you? I believe during your life people stole something from you, but I think that were wallet/money, or a gadget. Nobody would ever stole a notebook, book or piece of paper from you. You see where i'm going with this, nobody think of checking most obvious place of storying info and pay attention directly to devices or something digital.

This is food for thought. Truly, nobody thinks of stealing a book or paper from anybody because they are worthless and have no value. Yet, books and papers hold valuable access to treasures that could turn around an individual's perspective, reasoning, and mentality within minutes of reading them. They can store or hold vital sensitive information as it relates to private keys and details of important information we need. It is obvious that people do not see this aspect of safety for their online information as it is not valued for any reason and another being the fact that laziness is just always an excuse.

Laziness? Not really. I have replied here before, I find paper backups really fragile, simply can't get myself to have enough confidence in these. Sure, it could be one type of backup, but only? Nope.

If you store password digitally, then between you and me, hacker have more chances to get you. A theft must work on a tip to break my locks, go to room and search table for a paper with passwords. I bet if someone breaks in, they would take quickly what is valuable in the hall, or go to living room, grab TV, consoles, laptops and run. In your case, just one mistake and extra click, and someone is already looking through your PC for valuable info, passwords, logins. What can happen to my paper? If I fold it million times it can be destroyed, if one of family members will through it away - but is unlikely to happen, as I keep my work table organized. Papers does not look like rubbish to be thrown away.

I used to use lastpass which was apparently hacked — no loss to me but out of caution I moved to offline password managers — here you write passwords offline, these apps don't have Internet access, and backups are encrypted with password that I alone know (I haven't stored this password anywhere), even if someone gets access to backups they can't access data without password. I find this very safe.

If I may ask you, you call them apps right? Are the apps not stored on your phone? is your phone not connected to the internet? did you not give the apps access to your device? As long as it is an app you have used to store your password on your phone, you can be exposed to danger at any given time if your phone is connected to internet services. It is still not safer than paper storage which only you have access to and can be gotten at any time when needed without the need to connect or request internet access.

Yes they are apps but how android works is unless app has declared Internet permission beforehand, it can't access internet and two apps I use (KeepassDX, Password Safe) — they don't need Internet access to begin with since they are completely offline apps.

Yes, these two have auto-fill features as well which can make things convenient but they can cause security issues (or may be not, it's just me being paranoid) so I don't use those features.

[Cryptsafe]

You see, you have already experience of being hacked, you have already a negative experience with storing passwords on a device/software. But have you ever experienced of being robbed? Or a situation that someone stole something physical from you? I believe during your life people stole something from you, but I think that were wallet/money, or a gadget. Nobody would ever stole a notebook, book or piece of paper from you. You see where i'm going with this, nobody think of checking most obvious place of storying info and pay attention directly to devices or something digital.

This is food for thought. Truly, nobody thinks of stealing a book or paper from anybody because they are worthless and have no value. Yet, books and papers hold valuable access to treasures that could turn around an individual's perspective, reasoning, and mentality within minutes of reading them. They can store or hold vital sensitive information as it relates to private keys and details of important information we need. It is obvious that people do not see this aspect of safety for their online information as it is not valued for any reason and another being the fact that laziness is just always an excuse.

Laziness? Not really. I have replied here before, I find paper backups really fragile, simply can't get myself to have enough confidence in these. Sure, it could be one type of backup, but only? Nope.

If you store password digitally, then between you and me, hacker have more chances to get you. A theft must work on a tip to break my locks, go to room and search table for a paper with passwords. I bet if someone breaks in, they would take quickly what is valuable in the hall, or go to living room, grab TV, consoles, laptops and run. In your case, just one mistake and extra click, and someone is already looking through your PC for valuable info, passwords, logins. What can happen to my paper? If I fold it million times it can be destroyed, if one of family members will through it away - but is unlikely to happen, as I keep my work table organized. Papers does not look like rubbish to be thrown away.

I used to use lastpass which was apparently hacked — no loss to me but out of caution I moved to offline password managers — here you write passwords offline, these apps don't have Internet access, and backups are encrypted with password that I alone know (I haven't stored this password anywhere), even if someone gets access to backups they can't access data without password. I find this very safe.

If I may ask you, you call them apps right? Are the apps not stored on your phone? is your phone not connected to the internet? did you not give the apps access to your device? As long as it is an app you have used to store your password on your phone, you can be exposed to danger at any given time if your phone is connected to internet services. It is still not safer than paper storage which only you have access to and can be gotten at any time when needed without the need to connect or request internet access.

Yes they are apps but how android works is unless app has declared Internet permission beforehand, it can't access internet and two apps I use (KeepassDX, Password Safe) — they don't need Internet access to begin with since they are completely offline apps.

Yes, these two have auto-fill features as well which can make things convenient but they can cause security issues (or may be not, it's just me being paranoid) so I don't use those features.

I understand your point but my curiosity is this since those apps were downloaded from the Google Play Store with the help of internet access, anything can happen. As long as your phone is an Android phone with an internet connection and which you browse with, there is every possibility or tendency that your passwords and private keys stored on that app are not safe. If I may ask, were the apps not designed by developers? did you not use the internet to download and install it? I believe your answer is yes so tell me what is the probability that the app is safe?

[libert19]

You see, you have already experience of being hacked, you have already a negative experience with storing passwords on a device/software. But have you ever experienced of being robbed? Or a situation that someone stole something physical from you? I believe during your life people stole something from you, but I think that were wallet/money, or a gadget. Nobody would ever stole a notebook, book or piece of paper from you. You see where i'm going with this, nobody think of checking most obvious place of storying info and pay attention directly to devices or something digital.

This is food for thought. Truly, nobody thinks of stealing a book or paper from anybody because they are worthless and have no value. Yet, books and papers hold valuable access to treasures that could turn around an individual's perspective, reasoning, and mentality within minutes of reading them. They can store or hold vital sensitive information as it relates to private keys and details of important information we need. It is obvious that people do not see this aspect of safety for their online information as it is not valued for any reason and another being the fact that laziness is just always an excuse.

Laziness? Not really. I have replied here before, I find paper backups really fragile, simply can't get myself to have enough confidence in these. Sure, it could be one type of backup, but only? Nope.

If you store password digitally, then between you and me, hacker have more chances to get you. A theft must work on a tip to break my locks, go to room and search table for a paper with passwords. I bet if someone breaks in, they would take quickly what is valuable in the hall, or go to living room, grab TV, consoles, laptops and run. In your case, just one mistake and extra click, and someone is already looking through your PC for valuable info, passwords, logins. What can happen to my paper? If I fold it million times it can be destroyed, if one of family members will through it away - but is unlikely to happen, as I keep my work table organized. Papers does not look like rubbish to be thrown away.

I used to use lastpass which was apparently hacked — no loss to me but out of caution I moved to offline password managers — here you write passwords offline, these apps don't have Internet access, and backups are encrypted with password that I alone know (I haven't stored this password anywhere), even if someone gets access to backups they can't access data without password. I find this very safe.

If I may ask you, you call them apps right? Are the apps not stored on your phone? is your phone not connected to the internet? did you not give the apps access to your device? As long as it is an app you have used to store your password on your phone, you can be exposed to danger at any given time if your phone is connected to internet services. It is still not safer than paper storage which only you have access to and can be gotten at any time when needed without the need to connect or request internet access.

Yes they are apps but how android works is unless app has declared Internet permission beforehand, it can't access internet and two apps I use (KeepassDX, Password Safe) — they don't need Internet access to begin with since they are completely offline apps.

Yes, these two have auto-fill features as well which can make things convenient but they can cause security issues (or may be not, it's just me being paranoid) so I don't use those features.

I understand your point but my curiosity is this since those apps were downloaded from the Google Play Store with the help of internet access, anything can happen. As long as your phone is an Android phone with an internet connection and which you browse with, there is every possibility or tendency that your passwords and private keys stored on that app are not safe. If I may ask, were the apps not designed by developers? did you not use the internet to download and install it? I believe your answer is yes so tell me what is the probability that the app is safe?

How can anything happen! Explain? The way you talk about, it seems like you are afraid using Internet itself, does you using this forum using Internet, makes your forum account compromised?