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Further Discussions => Economics , Sociology & Politics => Topic started by: Peter90 on May 17, 2024, 09:49:50 AM

Title: BRICS+
Post by: Peter90 on May 17, 2024, 09:49:50 AM
The Coming Of BRICS+ Decentralized Monetary Ecosystem

Get ready for what may well be the geoeconomic bombshell of 2024: the coming of a decentralized monetary ecosystem.
Welcome to The Unit  – a concept that has already been discussed by the financial services and investments working group set up by the BRICS+ Business Council and has a serious shot at becoming official BRICS+ policy as early as in 2025.

The strength of the Unit, conceptually, is to remove direct dependency on the currency of other nations, and to offer especially to the Global Majority a new form of apolitical money - with huge potential for anchoring fair trade and investments.
It is indeed a new concept in terms of an international currency - anchored in gold (40%) and BRICS+ currencies (60%).

https://unitfoundation.org (https://unitfoundation.org)

As it stands, the major takeaway is that the Unit should be seen as a feasible, technical solution for the theoretically Unsolvable: a globally-recognized payment/trade system, immune to political pressure.

zerohedge.com (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-de-dollarization-bombshell-coming-brics-decentralized-monetary-ecosystem)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: Peter90 on May 18, 2024, 11:14:27 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/18G5ct9/1.png)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on May 19, 2024, 03:44:43 PM
Such ideas and concepts have been floating around in the minds of politicians/unions/individuals for a long time. But no one can think of a solution. I am talking about a quality solution. Now I will explain the essence of the problem.
First of all, let's understand what money is ? And especially money in international economic relations, which is the basis of any economic union, which BRICS/BRICS+ is trying to present itself to be

Money is a universal equivalent that serves as a measure of the value of goods or services and is easily exchanged for them (having maximum liquidity). (c) Wikipedia

And here is the main question - how to make currency/money so that it retains its basic value, i.e. remains the guaranteed equivalent. And most importantly - under certain conditions.

So, let's consider a variant - kauri shells become the currency of BRICS+ ! Hmm... why not, if in some countries such an event once took place. You will logically notice, in addition to the absolutely understandable disadvantages, such as inconvenience of settlements, another important factor - their quantity is not controlled, and perhaps on some island, the whole coast is covered with them, and therefore they can not be a measure of value.... That's right, I agree. And, for example, is it possible to accept currency... you know, like counting stars as coins? It seems convenient - they are always in the sky, everything is transparent, everything is visible. But... the inconvenience of accounting for at least the possession of these "coins" and the impossibility of owning them physically. No, it is possible to invent a centralized body that will record transactions of transfer of stars and clusters from one entity of the union to another. But this is not a convenient option either.
By the way, these two solutions have one more small but very important disadvantage - even if you accept it as a settlement currency of the union - they will not be accepted by other countries :) And it means that working in the space of this currency, you isolate yourself from other markets..... No, there is an option that your union is ABSOLUTELY self-sufficient ! This means that it does not depend on the EXTERNAL market, and the external market has dependencies on your union.

It was an accession. Now let's look at the "kauri" of BRICS+ ? How would it be different from the options, nuances and conditions described above !?! ? :)
It will be very interesting to hear the arguments ! :)


Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: Peter90 on May 19, 2024, 05:39:17 PM
BRICS - The Project Of The Century

Membership doubled as of January 1
Since January 1, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Ethiopia have joined the existing members (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) as new members.


(https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Brics023.jpg?itok=hBqwkmYl)



(https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/BRICS-91a-chart-EN.jpg?itok=Wr8SA3OK)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on May 20, 2024, 01:00:14 PM
Some thoughts and facts about BRICS/BRICS+.

As we know, the economy of this union is based on the economies of China and India. The other players are just raw material appendages for these two economies. We can fantasize a lot, but the economies of all the others are small percentages of the economies of China and India, and they do not produce anything competitive.

Now for the relationships and nuances.

Let me give you the most vivid example: trade between India and Russia, as well as between China and Russia.

Story 1: "Indian tricks" or how to buy something and get all the money back without giving back what you bought!?

As you know - the biggest buyer of oil from Russia is India. Why? Well, because of sanctions, and the pariah country needs somewhere to put its huge oil reserves to somehow support its deteriorating economy.
And you may have heard that Russia recently pompously reported an increase in crude oil sales?
Any idea how these events are related ? :)
I guess you do, but you probably haven't realized the full picture yet. So, "let's reveal the cards, the Indian trick" !
India buys oil from russia for ... RUPIA !
The idea was that russia gets rupees, converts them into dollars critical to russia's economy, and supports its dying economy.
The process was started, oil went to India, and rupees... and rupees didn't go anywhere :)) They stayed in the correspondent accounts of Russian companies..... in INDIAN BANKS !
Why? Well, because India forbade to withdraw them under the risk of US sanctions. For almost half a year, Russia has been trying to get India to agree to some scheme so that Russia could somehow get its money.
Here's the trick! India has agreed! But the scheme is as follows - the blocked rupees of Russian companies remain in India, and are invested in the economy ... INDIA ! :) And then Russia will receive investment income ... in RUPIA :))
But how to withdraw rupees from India - we have already read above in the text :)

Story 2: Russia-China or "Donkey and master" (s) S.Lavrov :)
As we all know - last week, Xi JinPing summoned the entire top brass of Russia. Reasons - Xi's previous dialogs with the EU and the US.
Expectations of Russia - unblocking of Russian funds in China, unblocking of goods from China and other "manifestations of friendship and economic cooperation within BRICS".
Bottom line: Xi said succinctly: NO ! There will be no unblocking, no supplies, no ... expensive gas from russia, you can supply topinambur and bone meal to china. Forget the rest ! Because ... China is afraid of U.S. sanctions. Because it will kill China's economy instantly.   

Bottom line of these stories: what kind of independence, self-sufficiency, influence of BRICS /*BRICS+ can we talk about if 2 major economies use other countries as raw material appendages, and one country "with the second economy of the world" is hysterically afraid of US sanctions, wiping its feet on "its brother and friend for centuries" ?! :)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: hugeblack on May 20, 2024, 05:59:19 PM

It has been a long time since I heard about BRICS+, and it is good that you created this topic for discussion. I am from the United Arab Emirates and I can say that my country depends on the dollar in one way or another. The local currency is linked to a fixed value of the dollar, and the sale of natural gas is made in dollars, and investments in Ports require that sales be made in dollars.


Countries began to think seriously about BRICS+ after what happened with Russian assets and the possibility of freezing Arab assets in the United States (if a war occurred,) but these countries are still far from the integration that leads to the establishment of a real economic unit, especially with the differences between countries such as China, which is trying to reduce The value of its currency and oil-rich countries that want to increase the value of their currency.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on May 21, 2024, 08:45:42 PM
The official results of the INTERNATIONAL OFFICIAL meeting between Russia and China, which was organized by China, after a trip to the EU and dialogues with the U.S. were:
- signing of contracts for the supply of topinambour and beef cartilage,
- canceling the Power of Siberia 2 project
- Refusal to sell Chinese products to Russia.

Vnesheconomtorg of Russia issued a decree on "urgent recommendation to switch to barter supplies of products from China" ..... 21st century... Brix, claiming to be a global and significant union in the world... BARTER ! :)

Question to the residents of BRICS/BRICS+ countries - please tell me, do you aspire to such a partnership ?  Only honestly ? Some describe the need to join BRICS (read - dedollarization) as a means of saving the economy in case this country violates international laws and falls under US sanctions ! :) Do you seriously believe that "such prospects" are worth it in exchange for the "right to violate international laws" and generally accepted treaties, moral and ethical norms ?

PS India has been invited to the G7 meeting. It was invited not for nothing but as a potential participant that will turn it into G8. China started to get nervous, and very much so.... What do you think India will choose - barter exchange of topinambur for beef cartilage or quality relations with the strongest economies of the world, free market and advantages of global world economy ? :)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: TomPluz on May 24, 2024, 06:29:45 AM
As it stands, the major takeaway is that the Unit should be seen as a feasible, technical solution for the theoretically unsolvable: a globally-recognized payment/trade system, immune to political pressure.

How will BRICS+ be able to make its currency immune from political pressure would be something good to watch or are we referring here political pressures from USA and not within its own membership? One of the biggest problem that Euro faced with its integration in the Eurozone is that they all have different economies with so diverse of features and getting a uniform value produced many problems that are still being ironed out even today so I think the idea of making the new BRICS+ currency be independent away from each member's economy can be a good start. I can see that the main ambition of BRICS+ is to eventually replaced the US Dollar as the default international currency reserve to get away from the hegemony and control of USA. For sure, once that happen the value of dollar will plummet and can be one of the many reasons for its economic collapse...now how will the fall of US economy be affecting other countries would be one thing worth watching.




Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on May 24, 2024, 08:59:25 AM
As it stands, the major takeaway is that the Unit should be seen as a feasible, technical solution for the theoretically unsolvable: a globally-recognized payment/trade system, immune to political pressure.

How will BRICS+ be able to make its currency immune from political pressure would be something good to watch or are we referring here political pressures from USA and not within its own membership? One of the biggest problem that Euro faced with its integration in the Eurozone is that they all have different economies with so diverse of features and getting a uniform value produced many problems that are still being ironed out even today so I think the idea of making the new BRICS+ currency be independent away from each member's economy can be a good start. I can see that the main ambition of BRICS+ is to eventually replaced the US Dollar as the default international currency reserve to get away from the hegemony and control of USA. For sure, once that happen the value of dollar will plummet and can be one of the many reasons for its economic collapse...now how will the fall of US economy be affecting other countries would be one thing worth watching.

Everything here is actually "more interesting". So far, there is not even a logical understanding of how there can be a single currency for countries with completely different economies, international status, and other characteristics that do not coincide at all. Provided that the entire BRICS+ economy is divided into a "thin layer" of stable economies, a "thick layer" of unstable and problematic economies (which includes the "second economy of the world" - China), economies that choose the developed Western economy and market (India), and the BRICS+ "economy" itself does not produce 30% of the necessary goods and technologies needed by the BRICS+ countries.
At the same time - BRICS+ have neither a single asset (e.g. gold reserves, economic power,...), nor any other "measure of value" that could objectively be a measure of value.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: Peter90 on May 24, 2024, 01:59:42 PM

It has been a long time since I heard about BRICS+, and it is good that you created this topic for discussion. I am from the United Arab Emirates and I can say that my country depends on the dollar in one way or another. The local currency is linked to a fixed value of the dollar, and the sale of natural gas is made in dollars, and investments in Ports require that sales be made in dollars.

HB, the Dirham being pegged to the $ doesn't mean anything
There was a troll - Stompix - who kept aggressively jumping on me pointing to that fact, in order to deny the de-dollarization in the Arab Gulf region.

Your country is de-dollarizing


"On 28 March 2023, the Shanghai Petroleum and Natural Gas Exchange (SHPGX) made history by announcing the first-ever deal on importing 65,000 tons of liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the UAE, settled in the Chinese yuan currency."

thecradle.co (https://thecradle.co/articles-id/793)



"China's attempts to internationalise the yuan are finding fruit in the Gulf states. These states, particularly the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, are strengthening their financial cooperation with China through currency swap agreements, cross-border trade settlement arrangements and digital currency collaboration efforts.

On 28 November 2023, the People’s Bank of China and the Central Bank of the United Arab Emirates renewed their currency swap agreement worth US$4.89 billion for five years. Both banks also signed a memorandum of understanding to enhance collaboration in digital currency development."

eastasiaforum.org (https://eastasiaforum.org/2024/01/17/chinese-yuan-gains-currency-in-the-gulf-states/#:~:text=On%2028%20November%202023%2C%20the,collaboration%20in%20digital%20currency%20development.)



"The key to understanding it all is Chinese President Xi’s recent historic visit to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states to launch, in his words, “a new paradigm of all-dimensional energy cooperation.”
The GCC includes Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates.
China is the GCC’s largest trading partner.

During Xi’s visit, he made the following crucial remarks (emphasis mine):
“China will continue to import large quantities of crude oil from GCC countries, expand imports of liquefied natural gas, strengthen cooperation in upstream oil and gas development, engineering services, storage, transportation and refining, and make full use of the Shanghai Petroleum and National Gas Exchange as a platform to carry out yuan settlement of oil and gas trade.

internationalman.com (https://internationalman.com/articles/rise-of-the-petroyuan-the-end-of-the-petrodollars-reign-and-the-impact-on-global-markets/)


(https://i.ibb.co/k1h83N1/3.png)........(https://i.ibb.co/zxkshHG/2.png).......(https://i.ibb.co/CwzSTfy/1.png)


Of course they are the first steps, but it's clear what's happening

Dubai is a major gold trade hub.
Abu Dhabi too?

+1 for coming from the UAE!
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on May 25, 2024, 10:40:28 AM
"China's attempts to internationalise the yuan are finding fruit in the Gulf states. These states, particularly the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, are strengthening their financial cooperation with China through currency swap agreements, cross-border trade settlement arrangements and digital currency collaboration efforts."

"On 28 November 2023, the People’s Bank of China and the Central Bank of the United Arab Emirates renewed their currency swap agreement worth US$4.89 billion for five years. Both banks also signed a memorandum of understanding to enhance collaboration in digital currency development.""

Are you not confused that "the yuan is increasingly used" but .... transaction volumes are still priced in DOLLARS ? I think there's some dissonance here, no?! :)

That said, we are watching China's continued attempts to push the Yuan as a "Brics currency" :) The first attempt was a failure, now that China's economy is picking up speed, but the speed is diving into the abyss - the attempts have resumed. I'm sure that smart BRICS members understand perfectly well that this is an attempt to "export China's economic problems", not to build a stable financial system within BRICS.

By the way - it would be interesting to see the detailed information about the yuan deals, namely - what Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia plans to buy from China ? Find out - and you will be greatly surprised ! :)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: hugeblack on May 25, 2024, 11:12:09 AM
Your country is de-dollarizing
Of course they are the first steps, but it's clear what's happening

Dubai is a major gold trade hub.
Abu Dhabi too?

+1 for coming from the UAE!

This happened for political reasons, especially the Arab countries’ fear that the United States would not activate the defense agreements if these countries were attacked. Also, what happened with Russia and the freezing of assets made some Arab countries diversify their investments with China and India and even join BRICS+, but I do not think that the government will go far at it.
The real change will be when the economic outlook changes, as the political reasons can change.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on May 26, 2024, 10:51:06 AM
Interesting point discovered... As we know a union is an economically beneficial interaction between the participants. After all, BRICS/+ is an economic union in the first place.
It is clear that some of the BRICS/+ participants are just raw material appendages of larger players.

But I decided to clarify what is the mutual trade turnover between China and the UAE, for example....
The picture turned out to be very interesting. China is very dependent on oil, and on oil from the Middle East in the first place. That is, the UAE supplies China with oil. A lot of oil.
And from China comes "machinery, equipment and electrical appliances."..... And here is the most interesting thing - I found out from an acquaintance who is from UAE - is there a lot of Chinese machinery in their segment (construction) ? The answer - "I don't know, I haven't seen it" :) I.e. a huge segment of consumption falls out. Electrical appliances - if we talk about the consumer market, I don't think UAE residents buy Chinese brands en masse.... In short - it is not clear to me what the UAE actually buys from China and in WHICH volumes !?? But we know very well how much China buys oil from UAE, and 90+% of it is sales for dollars. less than 10% - in yuan. This percentage probably indicates the real imports from China.  I.e. the balance of foreign economic "favorable partnership" is 9:1....

Can anyone explain the real picture, without references to Chinese official media and similar sources? :)

PS If you read the official Chinese media - the picture is fantastic and the statistics is "off the scale", but we know that today there are four kinds of lies:  lies, blatant lies, statistics and Chinese official statistics :))
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: Agbe on May 26, 2024, 08:29:30 PM
If Bric is coming to the digital currency, it won't work out because it will be a centralized digital currency that will be controlled by the supported countries and if it is for the formation of the regional currency to eliminate the US Dollar then they might succeed because what they are planning to do is to use the agreed currency to trade, buy things and pay goods and services. Then it will work out and they are winning more countries to the economic block.
(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/05/26/LRsGH.jpeg)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: electronicash on May 26, 2024, 09:27:42 PM
If Bric is coming to the digital currency, it won't work out because it will be a centralized digital currency that will be controlled by the supported countries and if it is for the formation of the regional currency to eliminate the US Dollar then they might succeed because what they are planning to do is to use the agreed currency to trade, buy things and pay goods and services. Then it will work out and they are winning more countries to the economic block.
(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/05/26/LRsGH.jpeg)

from the screenshots above, it does look like the BRICS countries are using their own currencies to buy oil. Kenya using their shillings to buy oil and India also using their rupees. seem fair to me and not forcing their members to use Yuan. isn't that freedom?

if BRICS are going ahead to launch the system they have, i guess there is never stopping anymore of their multipolar system.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on May 27, 2024, 10:35:58 PM
If Bric is coming to the digital currency, it won't work out because it will be a centralized digital currency that will be controlled by the supported countries and if it is for the formation of the regional currency to eliminate the US Dollar then they might succeed because what they are planning to do is to use the agreed currency to trade, buy things and pay goods and services. Then it will work out and they are winning more countries to the economic block.
(https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/05/26/LRsGH.jpeg)

Great idea, but... There's still the question of implementation. Moving away from the currency of the international economic system, the dollar, has several consequences:
1. isolation of the BRICS economy, or correctly - self-isolation from the world economy. The reason is banal - 70% of the union members do not produce any products important for the world economy.
2. At the same time, China and India almost entirely produce significant products for the world economy. But they sell them for... DOLLARS. Why ? Because India and China need goods from the "outside" world economy, and there the settlements are for freely convertible and recognized currencies - mainly dollar, euro, yen,.... but not the yuan.
3. another reason - who and how will control the "single currency? Well, how can China and Iran, for example, equally ensure the value of the single currency? The answer is simple - they can't.
4. China will strongly push YUAN as the single currency of the union. Directly or indirectly, Yuan or CBDC Yuan.... Or it will demand to give China "Exclusive Rights" because it is supposedly the "second economy of the world".  China's goal in BRICS is "Chineseization of BRICS", it is enough to look at the colonization of African countries to understand what China will do with "raw material appendages". But China's dominance will be countered by ... INDIA. Which chooses the Western vector and qualitative relations with the world, rather than self-isolation....
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: 0t3p0t on May 28, 2024, 09:13:12 PM
Your country is de-dollarizing
Of course they are the first steps, but it's clear what's happening

Dubai is a major gold trade hub.
Abu Dhabi too?

+1 for coming from the UAE!

This happened for political reasons, especially the Arab countries’ fear that the United States would not activate the defense agreements if these countries were attacked. Also, what happened with Russia and the freezing of assets made some Arab countries diversify their investments with China and India and even join BRICS+, but I do not think that the government will go far at it.
The real change will be when the economic outlook changes, as the political reasons can change.
Definitely the reason why countries that are afraid of sanctions are now looking forward to decentralized assets. I don't think joining BRICS would solve the problem as I think some of these countries has trust issues with themselves so I think they will still prefer decentralized assets like Bitcoin or they will still use local currency to trade like CBDC or the BRICS currency but I think we still need time to get a more clear view of it's real life usage in the future.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: electronicash on May 28, 2024, 09:25:55 PM
Your country is de-dollarizing
Of course they are the first steps, but it's clear what's happening

Dubai is a major gold trade hub.
Abu Dhabi too?

+1 for coming from the UAE!

This happened for political reasons, especially the Arab countries’ fear that the United States would not activate the defense agreements if these countries were attacked. Also, what happened with Russia and the freezing of assets made some Arab countries diversify their investments with China and India and even join BRICS+, but I do not think that the government will go far at it.
The real change will be when the economic outlook changes, as the political reasons can change.
Definitely the reason why countries that are afraid of sanctions are now looking forward to decentralized assets. I don't think joining BRICS would solve the problem as I think some of these countries has trust issues with themselves so I think they will still prefer decentralized assets like Bitcoin or they will still use local currency to trade like CBDC or the BRICS currency but I think we still need time to get a more clear view of it's real life usage in the future.

they are waiting for the result of the wars that's happening. some are undecided whether they are going to side with Russia which they could rely on cheap energy but at the same time, afraid of sanction. 

US is also not going  direct military confrontation with China since this is going to be both devastating in their economy.  but this prolong war will still result to same thing. all in all, countries are just waiting which one will lose in trade war and they could all side to the winner.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on May 29, 2024, 10:13:54 PM
BRICS now reminds me of the USSR. I will tell you a story, probably you are not familiar with it or do not know the nuances :)
There was such a country as the USSR. And here it was, or rather its government, decided to build communism, first in the USSR and then in the whole world. And the main goal was to put an end to capitalism and, of course, the U.S. and the dollar.
However, they promised to build communism in the 30s, then 50s, then 70s, but for some reason communism was not built, and capitalism, the U.S. and the dollar - only strengthened. At the same time, for some reason it was the USSR and its “company” that degraded ... The USSR sponsored at the expense of its population all sorts of dubious regimes, these regimes supposedly fought imperialists and capitalists.... But at one moment, unexpectedly, the USSR itself, with its ruble, the most powerful economy and the most huge army, suddenly collapsed.... And it was not the army, nor nuclear weapons, nor 40% of natural resources, nor “brotherly countries”, nor “the most well-read and educated people” that saved it..... Just the population of the country was tired of waiting for “the victory of the great communism”, having learned how the NORMAL western world lives ! It turned out that nobody is “rotting” there, so quality life, social guarantees, flexible and actively growing economy, adequate wages and services....

And actually what I wanted to say, BRICS, at the head of which China puts itself and tries to “unite” the members of the union under the aegis of dedollarization and destruction of the “US hegemony”, reminds me very much of the USSR's efforts to gather around itself “fellow believers” and go “with a holy war against the Western world”. True, the USSR sponsored and paid for the “friendship”, while China is colonizing, absorbing, and forcing it. True under the “holy slogans” - “dedollarization”, “victory over the Western world”....
There will be an epiphany, followed by disappointment. But by that time the economy in many countries of the “union” will be ruined or destroyed. Just read just what China is doing - in African countries where China has come to “help” them. Others may have their economic ties to the developed world and western economies destroyed for years to come. I'm afraid I'm right in assuming that today's BRICS is China's attempt to colonize many countries in the Asian-African region under “holy ideas”, with the support of a few rogue countries that also have real and huge economic problems that could lead to the fall of their regimes.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: Peter90 on May 29, 2024, 11:38:54 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/yFnvMm8/1.png)


"According to a statement by its government, Thailand plans to apply to join the BRICS alliance as soon as this month. The Asian country looks to expand its presence on the world stage along with the rest of the global south.

At a cabinet meeting Tuesday, the Thai government finalized plans to submit their application to the bloc. If approved, Thailand would become the first inductee from Southeast Asia to join BRICS.

Joining the BRICS alliance would benefit Thailand, primarily as a leading voice for developing countries. As the bloc grows, it is also looking to expand its reach amongst growing economies, swaying them away from the US Dollar.

Thailand is a part of the ASEAN bloc, which contains nine other Southeast Asian countries. These countries’ leaders signed a declaration last year to stop using the U.S. dollar for international trade. The agreement was made to promote their local currencies instead. The move bolstered the power of ASEAN nations’ local currencies. This objective coincided with the mission of BRICS to push de-dollarization and showed the bloc that ASEAN nations are in line with the BRICS initiative.

Once Thailand submits its BRICS application, it is uncertain how long it will take for the bloc to respond. The country may have to wait until the annual BRICS summit that will be held in Russia this fall. If a representative from the Thai government is invited to the summit, though, that will be great news for the country’s future in the alliance."

watcher.guru (https://watcher.guru/news/thailand-announces-plans-to-join-brics-alliance)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on May 30, 2024, 11:03:05 AM
Very strange processes are taking place within the BRICS. For example, China, the “BRICS leader” and the “world's second economy”. In just the last few days, the Chinese, world manufacturer of video surveillance systems Hikvision simply, without warning, left the Russian market. The official Russian site and pages of the company in social networks are unavailable, phones do not answer, draws the attention of CNews.
For information - Hikvision accounted for 70% of the Russian video surveillance market....

Alibaba also “destroys fraternal relations between countries” - the Chinese company has stopped accepting payments from Russian cards and does not allow to formalize the delivery in the Russian Federation, writes “Kommersant” with reference to sources in the market.

There are only 2 options:
1. or China really does not want to deal with russia (the most unlikely option, as China needs a market and this raw materials appendage).
2. or China, aka “the second economy of the world” and “the second pole of the multipolar world” is VERY afraid of the US influence. Although according to China's official version, which it is trying to “pull over the heads” of the BRICS participants - “the U.S. is losing its status, the U.S. dollar is worthless and we are abandoning the dollar, the U.S. economy is collapsing, the U.S. has a huge domestic debt! ...” and other narratives..... So where is the truth ? No one can tell me ? And how will relations within BRICS be built if China is ready to flee from the market because of some US sanctions !?? :)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: Peter90 on May 31, 2024, 10:31:59 PM

"On 28 March 2023, the Shanghai Petroleum and Natural Gas Exchange (SHPGX) made history by announcing the first-ever deal on importing 65,000 tons of liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the UAE, settled in the Chinese yuan currency."

thecradle.co (https://thecradle.co/articles-id/793)



"China's attempts to internationalise the yuan are finding fruit in the Gulf states. These states, particularly the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, are strengthening their financial cooperation with China through currency swap agreements, cross-border trade settlement arrangements and digital currency collaboration efforts.

On 28 November 2023, the People’s Bank of China and the Central Bank of the United Arab Emirates renewed their currency swap agreement worth US$4.89 billion for five years. Both banks also signed a memorandum of understanding to enhance collaboration in digital currency development."

eastasiaforum.org (https://eastasiaforum.org/2024/01/17/chinese-yuan-gains-currency-in-the-gulf-states/#:~:text=On%2028%20November%202023%2C%20the,collaboration%20in%20digital%20currency%20development.)



"The key to understanding it all is Chinese President Xi’s recent historic visit to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states to launch, in his words, “a new paradigm of all-dimensional energy cooperation.”
The GCC includes Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates.
China is the GCC’s largest trading partner.

During Xi’s visit, he made the following crucial remarks (emphasis mine):
“China will continue to import large quantities of crude oil from GCC countries, expand imports of liquefied natural gas, strengthen cooperation in upstream oil and gas development, engineering services, storage, transportation and refining, and make full use of the Shanghai Petroleum and National Gas Exchange as a platform to carry out yuan settlement of oil and gas trade.

internationalman.com (https://internationalman.com/articles/rise-of-the-petroyuan-the-end-of-the-petrodollars-reign-and-the-impact-on-global-markets/)





(https://i.ibb.co/k1h83N1/3.png)........(https://i.ibb.co/zxkshHG/2.png).......(https://i.ibb.co/CwzSTfy/1.png)

"trade in local currency" means no $

China... Kenya... India... Indonesia... S. Korea

(https://i.ibb.co/JQchrv6/1.png)


Hugeblack, are you aware of the giant steps your country is making in de-dollarizing its international trade?
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on June 01, 2024, 09:18:04 AM
"trade in local currency" means no $

China... Kenya... India... Indonesia... S. Korea

Hugeblack, are you aware of the giant steps your country is making in de-dollarizing its international trade?

Guys, so the whole point of BRICS is de-dollarization ? So it's an alliance against something ? An alliance to cover itself with pretty words to do what? To dedollarize the world economy ? :)
I always thought that alliance is about creation, creation of something good, like strengthening and development of economies of countries, not fighting against ... other people's success !

Who can really explain, only reasoned, and show what is the problem of the dollar as an international currency, and what REAL advantages you get for example trading for yuan ? :)

It is possible even on a live example, with UAE and China, it will be the most demonstrative :) But not with “fantastic ideas”, but with a real example of trade turnover of both countries and mutual benefits ?

A bit above I have already considered this example from my side, probably I am far from the truth and you can show other information ?

PS by the way, a question to the “fighters against the dollar” - tell me, what prevents you to simply take and ban the dollar in your countries ? Also with arguments and facts :) It looks strange to fight against the dollar, but ZVR - in dollar, credits - in dollar, personal accounts of elites - in dollars.... Something I do not understand - why if there is a beautiful, for example, yuan, right? :)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: Peter90 on June 03, 2024, 09:47:04 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GO6sTsyXsAArBLo?format=jpg&name=medium)


Hi Hugeblack

how do explain that your country is - by far - the one where crypto usage is the most widespread?
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: electronicash on June 03, 2024, 11:55:13 PM

exporting and importing i think is just what they try to avoid using USD.
its just the governments that are doing the dedollarization, but not the citizens. people still use the USD since trading it to the local currency is higher.  it benefits the people.

every news we see today in finance is somewhat related to inflation and BRICS. they are growing regardless of whether US like it or not.
but because crypto is  international, i think they will likely prefer to be using BTC as option.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on June 04, 2024, 09:25:15 PM

exporting and importing i think is just what they try to avoid using USD.
its just the governments that are doing the dedollarization, but not the citizens. people still use the USD since trading it to the local currency is higher.  it benefits the people.

every news we see today in finance is somewhat related to inflation and BRICS. they are growing regardless of whether US like it or not.
but because crypto is  international, i think they will likely prefer to be using BTC as option.

Cryptocurrency is not an international settlement currency.... For example, in China, cryptocurrency is illegal!  How will cryptocurrency be used in BRICS? It would be interesting to know the analytics on bitcoin reserves by BRICS+ countries. And also - which of the BRICS+ countries use cryptocurrencies massively and for any transactions for any people ?  After you study these statistics - you will realize that the future of cryptocurrencies (we are talking about bitcoin and its alternatives), in BRICS+ will definitely not be a “single currency”.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: electronicash on June 04, 2024, 09:57:46 PM

exporting and importing i think is just what they try to avoid using USD.
its just the governments that are doing the dedollarization, but not the citizens. people still use the USD since trading it to the local currency is higher.  it benefits the people.

every news we see today in finance is somewhat related to inflation and BRICS. they are growing regardless of whether US like it or not.
but because crypto is  international, i think they will likely prefer to be using BTC as option.

Cryptocurrency is not an international settlement currency.... For example, in China, cryptocurrency is illegal!  How will cryptocurrency be used in BRICS? It would be interesting to know the analytics on bitcoin reserves by BRICS+ countries. And also - which of the BRICS+ countries use cryptocurrencies massively and for any transactions for any people ?  After you study these statistics - you will realize that the future of cryptocurrencies (we are talking about bitcoin and its alternatives), in BRICS+ will definitely not be a “single currency”.

the chinese are using cryptocurencies though. the government only bans crypto to the financial institutions in China but not for the people using it. you can see on the wechat channel the Chinese have their own crypto market.

they are still using Bitcoin and some other crypto. even Russia I think are are not able to ban BTC, people are still buying and selling crypto and you can yobit still running since time.


Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on June 05, 2024, 07:26:23 AM

exporting and importing i think is just what they try to avoid using USD.
its just the governments that are doing the dedollarization, but not the citizens. people still use the USD since trading it to the local currency is higher.  it benefits the people.

every news we see today in finance is somewhat related to inflation and BRICS. they are growing regardless of whether US like it or not.
but because crypto is  international, i think they will likely prefer to be using BTC as option.

Cryptocurrency is not an international settlement currency.... For example, in China, cryptocurrency is illegal!  How will cryptocurrency be used in BRICS? It would be interesting to know the analytics on bitcoin reserves by BRICS+ countries. And also - which of the BRICS+ countries use cryptocurrencies massively and for any transactions for any people ?  After you study these statistics - you will realize that the future of cryptocurrencies (we are talking about bitcoin and its alternatives), in BRICS+ will definitely not be a “single currency”.

the chinese are using cryptocurencies though. the government only bans crypto to the financial institutions in China but not for the people using it. you can see on the wechat channel the Chinese have their own crypto market.

they are still using Bitcoin and some other crypto. even Russia I think are are not able to ban BTC, people are still buying and selling crypto and you can yobit still running since time.

We talked about the use of cryptocurrencies by BRICS+ participants. I assumed that we were talking about using them both for mutual settlements and for internal settlements, to implement the “holy idea of dedollarization”. :)
And what you are saying now is just a right of ownership. Since you CANNOT make payments, pay salaries, pay utilities....
“Currently, 51 countries and regions around the world have imposed bans on cryptocurrencies. Among them, 9 countries and regions have introduced absolute bans that completely prohibit the production, storage, trading and use of cryptocurrency. These countries and regions are: Algeria, Bangladesh, China, Egypt, Iraq, Morocco, Nepal, Qatar, Tunisia and Egypt.” (c) Binance 2024.

Now show us what the situation looks like in other BRICS+ member countries, and we will see if cryptocurrencies will ever appear as an official single currency in BRICS+ :)


Prohibition is very simple - criminal liability is introduced and payments from exchanges to cards are blocked. For isolated/totalitarian regimes, this is an extremely simple solution. What's the point of cryptocurrency - if you can't use it ? Neither to exchange it for local currency, nor to pay for it, nor to go to another country and use it there ! ?
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on June 11, 2024, 07:58:43 AM
BRICS/BRICS+ - a game of “friendship for survival” or “alliance of new colonialists capturing raw material appendages - their ‘partners’”:)

A bit about “allied, friendly, relations” within this alliance....

Those who have been watching what has been going on for the last half a year, probably noticed interesting processes concerning the immediate key figures in BRICS (I mean both BRICS and BRICS+).
As we remember - India, China and Russia have always been considered the key figures and, in general, the creators of BRICS. Let's not dive into the past of BRICS, let's return to the present.
2 very interesting facts in recent times:
1. India, the biggest buyer of “dirty oil from russia”, actually denied russia its money for oil ! No, you didn't mishear. Russia has not received a single rupee from India for oil. No one is talking about dollars at all :)
The key phrase to search for is “Since 2022, the funds received by Russian exporters for oil deliveries to the South Asian country have been accumulated in special accounts in local currency.”. After Russia begged India to give some money for almost half a year, India has made a truly grandiose decision! Yes Russia, the money is yours. But it will be invested in India's economy. And then you might get some kind of dividends. But then, and most importantly, it's possible! In the meantime, keep supplying India with oil at huge discounts. “Thank you, brotherly country !” :)
2. China. According to Russia's fantasies - the largest buyer of Russian gas. Uh-huh :) China pays for gas, unlike India. But there are also nuances - it pays very little, because it forced Russia to give incredible discounts on gas, forced Russia to invest money from its budget in the construction of two gas pipelines. It does not pay in dollars, it pays in cheap consumer goods, which must be sold to maintain the... the chinese economy !
But someone may object - “what are you talking about, just recently a huge delegation from Russia visited friendly, brotherly China!”. That's right ! After the Chinese visit to Europe, SI “called for a serious conversation” with its raw material appendage. Before that he banned many state banks from conducting transactions from Russia :)
Oh yes, and most importantly - can anyone name even ONE significant contract signed at this “great meeting” ? :) I will add to this - China forced Russia to lower gas prices and also to allocate new territories to Russia for “long-term lease by China”. You don't know about the latter ?! I highly recommend to familiarize yourself with how Russia since 2014, in fact, has been giving away its territories in the far east of Russia to China !

Total picture - of the “three pillars of BRICS”, two are trying to make their own raw materials appendage out of the third, cynically using the situation, and solely for their own benefit.

Can we really call it a mutually beneficial alliance with good ideas and relations? :)


UPD. Turkey's largest state bank has refused to unblock payments to Russia
Negotiations lasting almost six months have ended in fiasco.

Very friendly, and within the framework of the union :)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on June 12, 2024, 10:48:55 PM
Excellent “friendship” traditions among the BRICS members:

China demanded Russia to sell it (China) gas at the domestic Russian price, and this without taking into account the costs of delivery and construction of gas infrastructure, because China refused to finance the construction or even credit the “Power of Siberia 2”.
At the same time China, “in a friendly way” explains to Russia - “you have nowhere to sell gas, the only major buyer can be ONLY China. So do what we say !"
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: 0t3p0t on June 13, 2024, 04:01:00 PM
Your country is de-dollarizing
Of course they are the first steps, but it's clear what's happening

Dubai is a major gold trade hub.
Abu Dhabi too?

+1 for coming from the UAE!

This happened for political reasons, especially the Arab countries’ fear that the United States would not activate the defense agreements if these countries were attacked. Also, what happened with Russia and the freezing of assets made some Arab countries diversify their investments with China and India and even join BRICS+, but I do not think that the government will go far at it.
The real change will be when the economic outlook changes, as the political reasons can change.
Definitely the reason why countries that are afraid of sanctions are now looking forward to decentralized assets. I don't think joining BRICS would solve the problem as I think some of these countries has trust issues with themselves so I think they will still prefer decentralized assets like Bitcoin or they will still use local currency to trade like CBDC or the BRICS currency but I think we still need time to get a more clear view of it's real life usage in the future.

they are waiting for the result of the wars that's happening. some are undecided whether they are going to side with Russia which they could rely on cheap energy but at the same time, afraid of sanction. 

US is also not going  direct military confrontation with China since this is going to be both devastating in their economy.  but this prolong war will still result to same thing. all in all, countries are just waiting which one will lose in trade war and they could all side to the winner.
In my opinion this is India's advantage and I can see huge potential to rank up being part of the BRICS no matter what because of it's neutrality as they only focused in the growth of it's economy and this will end with positive result in the long run the reason why it is possible that India one day will overtake China's economy and might in the next decades to come no doubt about that.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on June 15, 2024, 12:11:38 PM
....
In my opinion this is India's advantage and I can see huge potential to rank up being part of the BRICS no matter what because of it's neutrality as they only focused in the growth of it's economy and this will end with positive result in the long run the reason why it is possible that India one day will overtake China's economy and might in the next decades to come no doubt about that.

It is India that can make BRICS a full-fledged union of countries and give an impetus to the development of the economies of the countries, since it is India that chooses the vector of development and Western concepts of development. China will drag the BRICS to the bottom of the "club of pariah countries" and make them its colonies, raw material appendages, and "importers of problems of the Chinese economy".... And he, China, has already done it with some countries.... But some are still applauding in the "frenzy of dedollarization" fighting "the West".... Although to be honest - they are fighting common sense and normal life :)
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: 0t3p0t on June 16, 2024, 06:54:01 PM
....
In my opinion this is India's advantage and I can see huge potential to rank up being part of the BRICS no matter what because of it's neutrality as they only focused in the growth of it's economy and this will end with positive result in the long run the reason why it is possible that India one day will overtake China's economy and might in the next decades to come no doubt about that.

It is India that can make BRICS a full-fledged union of countries and give an impetus to the development of the economies of the countries, since it is India that chooses the vector of development and Western concepts of development. China will drag the BRICS to the bottom of the "club of pariah countries" and make them its colonies, raw material appendages, and "importers of problems of the Chinese economy".... And he, China, has already done it with some countries.... But some are still applauding in the "frenzy of dedollarization" fighting "the West".... Although to be honest - they are fighting common sense and normal life :)
Well yeah that is true. That is why China is creating show of force almost every day just to make distractions amongst it's neighbors just for them to look strong which is diversional for me because in my opinion they are cooking something they don't want the world to know one thing is that deep inside they are weak due to corruptions on their military and that is what they are having a hard time fixing themselves since their national security is at risk due to crisis that is currently happening as I can see corruptions, protests, natural disasters and stuff has hit them recently. What is funny is that they will keep on doing that until such time they will fully fix their problems which will give it's neighbors to respond together and stand against the giant. If only China is not a greedy country, I think they had the most friends worldwide not only countries that form BRICS.
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on June 20, 2024, 08:09:13 AM
Well yeah that is true. That is why China is creating show of force almost every day just to make distractions amongst it's neighbors just for them to look strong which is diversional for me because in my opinion they are cooking something they don't want the world to know one thing is that deep inside they are weak due to corruptions on their military and that is what they are having a hard time fixing themselves since their national security is at risk due to crisis that is currently happening as I can see corruptions, protests, natural disasters and stuff has hit them recently. What is funny is that they will keep on doing that until such time they will fully fix their problems which will give it's neighbors to respond together and stand against the giant. If only China is not a greedy country, I think they had the most friends worldwide not only countries that form BRICS.

The concept of presenting oneself as "very strong and successful. against others" is one of the hallmarks of all totalitarian regimes.
As far as China is concerned, the situation is no different. After 30 years of development, thanks to Western investment, technology, China's admission to the Western market, and some freedoms in China's economy, it is time to "move on to the past." Having convinced itself that China is now "the most important country and economy", China has decided to spit on the world and start setting its own terms. CHINA got it very wrong..... The result of the mistake was not long in coming, and manifested itself in the beginning of the collapse of the economy, which was almost completely dependent on the Western consumer market. And now everyone has to shout "China is a great country, Chinese economy is stable and growing, everything is fine, together with us we will defeat the West...". And populism is one of the main tools here, tools for creating a "lifeline" for China and the BRICS/BRICS+ members. And if to speak openly - countries that will sacrifice their economy and their future just to save the Chinese economy and the ruling regime. However, some of the participants believe that they are at war "with the Western world", not realizing that they are just "pawns in China's game" and raw material appendages :))
Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on July 05, 2024, 07:34:32 PM
Even Russian publications, which really assess reality and the processes taking place, can no longer remain silent:

"OPEC+ is falling apart: the group's leadership cannot achieve internal discipline".
July 3, 2024"

Certain problems in the US shale oil production industry should have eased the pressure on the OPEC+ oil group. However, trouble at its main competitor across the ocean has not made the exporters' alliance more viable in the new realities. Problems of the most serious nature continue to arise. According to Reuters, there are fears that it is not the alliance's strategy to curb production that is falling apart, but the alliance itself.

https://topcor.ru/49104-opek-razvalivaetsja-rukovodstvo-gruppy-ne-mozhet-dobitsja-vnutrennej-discipliny.html

Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: Peter90 on December 20, 2024, 01:43:44 PM
Biggest economies in the world

1) China
2) USA
3) India
4) Russia

Who could imagine Russia has a bigger GDP than Japan or Germany.


(https://i.ibb.co/x1q6F4b/Screenshot-2024-12-20-at-13-39-24.png)


Title: Re: BRICS+
Post by: DrBeer on January 02, 2025, 08:14:03 PM
Biggest economies in the world

1) China
2) USA
3) India
4) Russia

Who could imagine Russia has a bigger GDP than Japan or Germany.



GDP is a very interesting indicator. The fact that Russia forms its budget by 40+% through the sale of natural resources, and not through the sale of goods and services with high added value.  That's the first thing... Second - the GDP that the Russian economy is currently forming is a war budget, where half of the country's budget is turned into weapons etc. “goods” which after a day/week/month become burnt/exploded mettalon.... I.e. no real product is produced that works for the economy and for people. The second problem is that even the “growth of oil revenues”, if you start to understand how it works now, the real picture is much worse, because the estimated oil price (in dollars) multiplied by the number of barrels is not equal to what Russia actually receives from these transactions, because the two largest oil buyers China and India do not pay in dollars, and the use of yuan and rupee is very limited.