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[Lucius]

Make sense. Now, the mixers won't dare have an official account, channel, or group on Telegram because Telegram has their phone numbers, and the government will force Telegram to share them. As we all know, The government is always on a mission to hunt Mixer services, and now the mixer account representative will be in danger. I am not sure if they are aware of the recent change of Telegram TOS or not. At least the mixers should delete their telegram account ASAP. Most governments aren't crypto-friendly. I am not sure if Telegram is going to cooperate with all the country's authorities or if it's just for some specific region.

If you are someone who has an mixer, then we can assume that you know how important it is to protect your privacy - and that means that you will certainly not use a mobile number that is in any way connected to your identity, as well as that you will not use Telegram without a VPN. I hope that all owners of mixer have created their Telegram accounts in exactly this way.

As for cooperation with the authorities, this is a case initiated by France, so we can say that Telegram will cooperate with their authorities, but it is possible that the cooperation also applies to other members of the European Union, some of which also had similar requests to Telegram.

However, one thing should be kept in mind - their CEO can promise anything, but when he leaves France and goes to a country that does not extradite it to the EU and the US, he may change his mind.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Today I read that Telegram still decided to give in to the authorities' requests to share with them the personal data of their users who are found to have done something illegal. Given that mixing is something undesirable or even illegal in the eyes of the authorities, I would not trust Telegram bots when it comes to privacy protection.

Yes, the arrest of Pavel Durov, CEO of Telegram, was probably crucial for such a change. With this, Telegram significantly loses its important role in the crypto world.
It has become completely pointless to use Telegram to mix coins.

Yes to this but this is only if the user or person mixing the bitcoins doesn't own and makes use of a telegram anonymous number together with a good VPN service, username doesn't really matter since anyone can choose a different one at any given time.

So, first, let's assume that telegram actually can have access to users interactions or activities on the app, like they can tell what a user is doing or did per time on the app, then the solution to enjoy complete anonymity is to buy a telegram anonymous number, and use VPN at all times to access the app, with this, one can mixed bitcoins using the Thormixer telegram app without fear of being monitored.

[examplens]

So, first, let's assume that telegram actually can have access to users interactions or activities on the app, like they can tell what a user is doing or did per time on the app, then the solution to enjoy complete anonymity is to buy a telegram anonymous number, and use VPN at all times to access the app, with this, one can mixed bitcoins using the Thormixer telegram app without fear of being monitored.

The solution is not to use Telegram where you want privacy.
If I already use a VPN, there is no need to insert another critical point with an "anonymous" phone number.

Otherwise, I used Telegram more as additional storage for mobile devices. 

[dkbit98]

As an alternative, the Telegram bot is probably a good solution. Maybe it even offers a bit more privacy than clearnet.
However, I would not leave the matter to a bot relying on a third party when it comes to any transactions or financial matters. Not when it comes to the mixer, but in general.

There is NO privacy with telegram at all.
Durov is (and was) sharing everything with governments, including IP addresses and phone numbers.
He claims that they will give more information to governments, that means that he was giving information even before his arrest.
I would not like to connect any of that with bitcoin transactions.

So, first, let's assume that telegram actually can have access to users interactions or activities on the app, like they can tell what a user is doing or did per time on the app, then the solution to enjoy complete anonymity is to buy a telegram anonymous number, and use VPN at all times to access the app, with this, one can mixed bitcoins using the Thormixer telegram app without fear of being monitored.

You don't have to assume anything.
They already have all information stored on their servers forever, and you can't delete that.
Using VPN can mitigate partially, but you have to use it al the time, and phone number leak is worse than IP address.

[God Of Thunder]

If you are someone who has an mixer, then we can assume that you know how important it is to protect your privacy - and that means that you will certainly not use a mobile number that is in any way connected to your identity, as well as that you will not use Telegram without a VPN. I hope that all owners of mixer have created their Telegram accounts in exactly this way.

Let's assume they all created their account with a virtual phone number, and they are using proxies or VPNs when they use Telegram. But I heard that lately, telegram started detecting virtual phone numbers and deleting telegram accounts. Also, if you are in US and created an telegram account with a UK phone number, your account is likely to get banned in 24 hours.

I heard all that from a group of people who regularly create accounts with virtual phone numbers and sell those accounts to airdrop hunters. I know one guy who do these things and now his business is off because of recent developments. So, I assume Telegram is getting strict everyday.

[SamReomo]

But if I own a mixer with such a feature, I will limit the free mixing to 2 or 3 times per address as a way to discourage people from misusing or abusing such feature.

That's going to be a smart move I guess, but who knows if they also might limit the number of mixes for each address. I haven't used it yet but those who mix at the site might know better if there are any such limitations or not. However, I guess whatever you said if fully true and it's highly needed to have such limits so people might not take advantage of it.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

If you are someone who has an mixer, then we can assume that you know how important it is to protect your privacy - and that means that you will certainly not use a mobile number that is in any way connected to your identity, as well as that you will not use Telegram without a VPN. I hope that all owners of mixer have created their Telegram accounts in exactly this way.

Let's assume they all created their account with a virtual phone number, and they are using proxies or VPNs when they use Telegram. But I heard that lately, telegram started detecting virtual phone numbers and deleting telegram accounts. Also, if you are in US and created an telegram account with a UK phone number, your account is likely to get banned in 24 hours.

I heard all that from a group of people who regularly create accounts with virtual phone numbers and sell those accounts to airdrop hunters. I know one guy who do these things and now his business is off because of recent developments. So, I assume Telegram is getting strict everyday.

If you are creating or buying a telegram account with a virtual phone number, then you are doing that at your own peril or risk. Telegram has their own anonymous number service which can be bought from fragment, there is absolutely no way telegram will sell to you an anonymous phone number that only works on telegram, and you use the same number to sign up on telegram, and then telegram will turn and ban the account, it's not possible, who are give this information is giving the wrong information.

Two of my friends are currently own/using telegram account they registered with an anonymous phone number which they bought from telegram through fragment, there haven't been any issue of ban whatsoever since the accounts were created over three to four years ago.

[MrSpasybo]

If you are creating or buying a telegram account with a virtual phone number, then you are doing that at your own peril or risk. Telegram has their own anonymous number service which can be bought from fragment, there is absolutely no way telegram will sell to you an anonymous phone number that only works on telegram, and you use the same number to sign up on telegram, and then telegram will turn and ban the account, it's not possible, who are give this information is giving the wrong information.

Two of my friends are currently own/using telegram account they registered with an anonymous phone number which they bought from telegram through fragment, there haven't been any issue of ban whatsoever since the accounts were created over three to four years ago.

It seems we've veered off-topic from ThorMixer, although we're still discussing user privacy on Telegram and within the crypto market. We haven't received any specific announcements from Mixers regarding Telegram bots, which could be a vulnerability in the Mixers business model. We may soon see the end of Telegram bot-based Mixers.

Telegram is no longer a safe haven for us all, including Mixers and their users. I hope ThorMixer will soon introduce alternative solutions and utilize a more private platform, operated on a blockchain, to serve users anonymity needs.

[examplens]

Telegram is no longer a safe haven for us all, including Mixers and their users. I hope ThorMixer will soon introduce alternative solutions and utilize a more private platform, operated on a blockchain, to serve users anonymity needs.

We still have the onion Thormixer site, which certainly offers more anonymity.

Telegram no longer offers a high level of privacy (if in fact it once did), but I believe that an alternative will appear over time. I haven't used SimpleX much, I don't know how easily digestible it is, but it certainly has potential.

[KingsDen]

Anyone who is going to mix exactly 0.001 BTC every time in order not to pay mixer fee is obviously poor and deserves the free mix.

Well, in some scenario you could call someone like that as poor, but I guess that person might be opportunistic as he/she could literally mix his/her coins without paying any fees. Such people might do multiple mixes of 0.001 BTC in order to avoid paying any fees.

A rich man values his time. He wants to mix BTC worth $10k and above, then he will keep sending 0.001 BTC in order to avoid paying mixers fees. Calculate how many times they will have to mix at 0.001 and completely mix $10k. It is totally insignificant and not worthy to be tried. It is what it is called - for testing. You test how fast you recieved your BTC and how clean the recieved BTC is, then if you trust the service, you make your major mix.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

If you are creating or buying a telegram account with a virtual phone number, then you are doing that at your own peril or risk. Telegram has their own anonymous number service which can be bought from fragment, there is absolutely no way telegram will sell to you an anonymous phone number that only works on telegram, and you use the same number to sign up on telegram, and then telegram will turn and ban the account, it's not possible, who are give this information is giving the wrong information.

Two of my friends are currently own/using telegram account they registered with an anonymous phone number which they bought from telegram through fragment, there haven't been any issue of ban whatsoever since the accounts were created over three to four years ago.

It seems we've veered off-topic from ThorMixer, although we're still discussing user privacy on Telegram and within the crypto market. We haven't received any specific announcements from Mixers regarding Telegram bots, which could be a vulnerability in the Mixers business model. We may soon see the end of Telegram bot-based Mixers.

Well, sorry but I do not think we have (as you said) veered off topic from Thormixer, because first, the question should be, why are we talking or discussing about telegram and privacy here?, and the answer is because Thormixer has a mixing bot on telegram which simply means that whatever affects telegram and it's privacy also affects Thormixer, and its not off-topic to discuss about in a Thormixer thread.

Telegram is no longer a safe haven for us all, including Mixers and their users. I hope ThorMixer will soon introduce alternative solutions and utilize a more private platform, operated on a blockchain, to serve users anonymity needs.

Telegram bot was only an alternative to the main mixing site, so, if paradventure, telegram is no longer private enough to support mixing apps, we can all fall back to making use of the mixing site, after all, there are several mixers out there that don't even have a telegram channel not to talk of mixing bot, and they are doing just fine.

[God Of Thunder]

Two of my friends are currently own/using telegram account they registered with an anonymous phone number which they bought from telegram through fragment, there haven't been any issue of ban whatsoever since the accounts were created over three to four years ago.

I guess Fragment is the only exception at this moment. You should know that not everybody uses fragment numbers since they are not too cheap. I saw the price today, and it starts at $12, and only two numbers are available for $12. The next one is $60, which I consider too expensive, while you can buy a real SIM card for $5.

I did not verify their claims that accounts created with virtual numbers are getting banned, but I believe that because I tried to create one and did not receive an OTP from Telegram. My Telegram account was banned two months ago without knowing what rules I had violated, and I assume I was banned without any reason.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Two of my friends are currently own/using telegram account they registered with an anonymous phone number which they bought from telegram through fragment, there haven't been any issue of ban whatsoever since the accounts were created over three to four years ago.

I guess Fragment is the only exception at this moment. You should know that not everybody uses fragment numbers since they are not too cheap. I saw the price today, and it starts at $12, and only two numbers are available for $12. The next one is $60, which I consider too expensive, while you can buy a real SIM card for $5.

I did not verify their claims that accounts created with virtual numbers are getting banned, but I believe that because I tried to create one and did not receive an OTP from Telegram. My Telegram account was banned two months ago without knowing what rules I had violated, and I assume I was banned without any reason.

Well, I really dont know and I am not trying to downplay you here, but sincerely speaking, I am a very active user of Telegram since 2017, I have like 5 telegram accounts, that of my wife which I am still the one mostly using it makes it six, none of this accounts have ever been banned, the most common penalty or punishment for violenting rules on telegram is restriction from chat, they can restrict you from chatting, sometimes up to 3 months long depending on how frequent other users report your account.

So, it's kind of hard to believe that your telegram account was outrightly banned for absolutely no reason, sorry I don't believe you.

And again, visual numbers are of different types and have different providers, and like what I said before, when you use a visual number you bought on fragment to sign up a telegram account, such account can not be banned, at all because telegram own fragment and you literally bought the visual number from telegram, which also only works on telegram.

Sorry if this comment seem way too off the reason for this thread which is to discuss mixers, specially Thormixer, and cryptocurrency users privacy, i, like everyone else I believe, is only trying to understand telegram better, which actually is one the platforms Thormixer have built a mixing app on..

[dkbit98]

Telegram no longer offers a high level of privacy (if in fact it once did), but I believe that an alternative will appear over time. I haven't used SimpleX much, I don't know how easily digestible it is, but it certainly has potential.

SimpleX is great and much more secure than telegram.
It takes some time getting used to it, so I suggest creating account there to see how it works.
I would suggest Thormixer to create official support contact on SimpleX, it should be faster and more private than forum or email.

[NotATether]

Let's assume they all created their account with a virtual phone number, and they are using proxies or VPNs when they use Telegram. But I heard that lately, telegram started detecting virtual phone numbers and deleting telegram accounts. Also, if you are in US and created an telegram account with a UK phone number, your account is likely to get banned in 24 hours.

I registered using a local number and changed it to a UK VOIP a few years later and I never experienced any problems with that.

I was reported (and jailed) by bots though - the whole 'I'm afraid some users found your messages annoying and forwarded it to moderators, who agreed on it" excuse is a load of BS. The whole process is almost instant now.

Telegram is no longer a safe haven for us all, including Mixers and their users. I hope ThorMixer will soon introduce alternative solutions and utilize a more private platform, operated on a blockchain, to serve users anonymity needs.

Well I hope everyone uses alternative and more private solutions, because my days of being active on Telegram might be getting numbered.