Negative karma with an explanation

[KingsDen]

This could be something like an option to send a private message to the user who receives it.
It would be cool if that could be anonymous as well

As an example, just for demonstration purposes: I just game you -karma on this post (don't mind me [I've undone it a few minutes later]). But I don't actually have any reason for doing so. So what would I write inside the private message that is sent to you?

If you have no reason to give a -karma, it means the -karma is not legitimate and should not be given. Just like you said above, you gave -1 and undo it because you know the post doesn't worth -karma.

Most people who do this will either write spam, or some insults. So I don't like this user-generated PMs thing.

I expressed this concern and Freemind gave an answer, just scroll a little upwards and see if his answer is suitable for you

[bitmover]

As an example, just for demonstration purposes: I just game you -karma on this post (don't mind me [I've undone it a few minutes later]). But I don't actually have any reason for doing so. So what would I write inside the private message that is sent to you?

This pm could be optional , not mandatory.

Anyway, I think positive feedback is better than negative.

This is why I think posta with +karma showing up would be amazing.

[Lucius]

This pm could be optional , not mandatory.
Anyway, I think positive feedback is better than negative.
This is why I think posta with +karma showing up would be amazing.

Of course that would be an option, like the option to write something when you use "report to moderator". What would be positive is that each member could give their own explanation along with the negative karma, which could then help those who see that they have received negative karma to know for what reason they received it.

I sincerely doubt that some members realize that they are doing something wrong, regardless of receiving negative karma, strikes, badges...

[bitmover]

I sincerely doubt that some members realize that they are doing something wrong, regardless of receiving negative karma, strikes, badges...

Yeah, I am impressed by number of spam and low quality posts accounts...

When I first joined BTT i just tried to do everything correct to rank up. It was relatively easy considering the benefits of doing so. The same here...

I can't understand how people just fail to do basic stuff like engaging discussions and sharing knowledge or being polite...

[dragononcrypto]

I sincerely doubt that some members realize that they are doing something wrong, regardless of receiving negative karma, strikes, badges...

I wouldn't compare -karma to receiving strikes or badges, as the latter is only done while receiving a warning via pm with a template message with various topic links that documents exactly what the user has done wrong (plagiarising, shilling, spamming, ai posting, etc). So whether the user decides to change their behaviour or not becomes a choice at that point, as it is very clear why they receive such a punishment. Naturally 50% don't and end up in misbehaving, under review or with 3 strikes and future posts aren't seen anymore...

But given approximately half do change their behaviour, this is why I think -karma with an explanation could well help. At least it wouldn't do much harm.

[Lucius]

Yeah, I am impressed by number of spam and low quality posts accounts...
~snip~

It is especially difficult for me to understand that there are many high-ranking members who have been there for a long time and have several hundred + karma, and at the same time they write hardly meaningful posts that I don't know if I would put them in the category of spam or shitposting. I would be happy to give them negative karma, but I think that without explaining why they got it, it makes no sense.

~snip~
But given approximately half do change their behaviour, this is why I think -karma with an explanation could well help. At least it wouldn't do much harm.

I believe that there would be no harm in any sense, especially if the messages that could be sent were generated in advance to prevent any ugly messages - although I doubt that there would be too many such messages. I don't know if we should expect any concrete results from this proposal of mine, but if an idea exists, there is always at least a small chance that it will be realized one day.

[bitmover]

Yeah, I am impressed by number of spam and low quality posts accounts...
~snip~

It is especially difficult for me to understand that there are many high-ranking members who have been there for a long time and have several hundred + karma, and at the same time they write hardly meaningful posts that I don't know if I would put them in the category of spam or shitposting. I would be happy to give them negative karma, but I think that without explaining why they got it, it makes no sense.

I used to see that a lot in bitcointalk too when I joined in.

I was a newbie or a member with very few earned merits (like 30) and there were tons of spammers with legendary accounts with 1000 merits making money just to shitpost.

I believe this forum used to rank up useless accounts, just like bitcointalk before the merit system.

[Lucius]

I used to see that a lot in bitcointalk too when I joined in.
I was a newbie or a member with very few earned merits (like 30) and there were tons of spammers with legendary accounts with 1000 merits making money just to shitpost.

They didn't earn the merits, they got them based on their rank and most of them have not collected more than 100 merits since 2018 and would never reach a single higher rank in the new system. There have been some suggestions that those who do not prove that they are worthy of the rank should be stripped of it (demotion), but that is still a bit of a tricky question and I don't think it will ever happen under the current leadership.

I believe this forum used to rank up useless accounts, just like bitcointalk before the merit system.

If you need nothing but activity to reach a higher rank, then you will undoubtedly have the opportunity to achieve it. In that regard, nothing has changed, because karma is not a factor that determines rank in any way. Ranking on BTT is much harder than here, there's no doubt about that.

[dragononcrypto]

I believe this forum used to rank up useless accounts, just like bitcointalk before the merit system.

If you need nothing but activity to reach a higher rank, then you will undoubtedly have the opportunity to achieve it. In that regard, nothing has changed, because karma is not a factor that determines rank in any way. Ranking on BTT is much harder than here, there's no doubt about that.

Last I checked you still need non-negative karma in order to reach Hero rank, but granted you don't need positive karma to reach higher ranks per say, only a lack of shitposting or spamming etc. I'd be in favour of having a light increase in karma requirement in order to reach certain ranks though, something like:

Senior +1
Hero: +5
Legendary: +10

Nothing too extreme, but at least if you posted 1,200 times as a "native" member then realistically you should have at least 10 posts that received positive karma for example. I'm not sure how easily this could be implemented without affecting teleported members, or whether this restriction should include them. Ie your activity is teleported but there are still karma requirements needed. This would probably be too contentious though as it would mean another drop in ranks for certain members...

[bitmover]

Senior +1
Hero: +5
Legendary: +10

Nothing too extreme, but at least if you posted 1,200 times as a "native" member then realistically you should have at least 10 posts that received positive karma for example.

I wold use the btt limites
Senior: 250
Hero:500
Legendary: 1000

Karma is not that hard. I am here for less than a year ans I have nearly 300

[dragononcrypto]

Senior +1
Hero: +5
Legendary: +10

Nothing too extreme, but at least if you posted 1,200 times as a "native" member then realistically you should have at least 10 posts that received positive karma for example.

I wold use the btt limites
Senior: 250
Hero:500
Legendary: 1000

Karma is not that hard. I am here for less than a year ans I have nearly 300

This would mean you are a senior member, not a legendary member then? This would otherwise leave only 5 users with legendary rank, assuming mythical, padawan and jedi would have even high karma requirements. As a reminder this forum isn't btt, nor that similar, so these karma requirements would not be appropriate for here. This is why I suggested a very light karma requirement, as opposed to anything remotely similar to btt.

[bitmover]

This would mean you are a senior member, not a legendary member then? This would otherwise leave only 5 users with legendary rank, assuming mythical, padawan and jedi would have even high karma requirements. As a reminder this forum isn't btt, nor that similar, so these karma requirements would not be appropriate for here. This is why I suggested a very light karma requirement, as opposed to anything remotely similar to btt.

As people were teleported, ranks were also teleported.

I am talking about new users . 5 karma is basically nothing, I think making harder to rank up is challenging and could even stimulate people  to contribute

[Lucius]

As people were teleported, ranks were also teleported.
I am talking about new users . 5 karma is basically nothing, I think making harder to rank up is challenging and could even stimulate people  to contribute

I agree that 5 karma is easily attainable even for the biggest spammers, but for lower ranks we should not exaggerate the requirements because this is not the case even on BTT where you need 1 merit to become a Jr.Member or 10 merits for Member rank. I think some minimal karma should play a role here as well when it comes to low ranks, and for the higher ones I would still set the values ​​to 50 for Hero and 100 for Legendary which would definitely prevent the worst members from reaching them without much trouble.

+1/+1

[dragononcrypto]

This would mean you are a senior member, not a legendary member then? This would otherwise leave only 5 users with legendary rank, assuming mythical, padawan and jedi would have even high karma requirements. As a reminder this forum isn't btt, nor that similar, so these karma requirements would not be appropriate for here. This is why I suggested a very light karma requirement, as opposed to anything remotely similar to btt.

As people were teleported, ranks were also teleported.

Technically not, activity was teleported (capped at 1,200), not ranks. Those with 5,000+ activity on bitcointalk were not given Mythical rank here. Nor was merit translated into karma. The complexity would be imposing such a karma limit but excluding Teleported members (as it seems you're suggesting). Some of which don't have the required merit on bitcointalk anyway, so wouldn't deserve exclusion,.

I am talking about new users . 5 karma is basically nothing, I think making harder to rank up is challenging and could even stimulate people  to contribute

Tbf it sounds like your're not talking about new users specifically, but otherwise non-teleported? Otherwise given the lack of karma distributed on the forum compared to merit (the ratio is probably 10:1 per member roughly), then something slightly higher than I proposed might make sense, or a tenth of what you proposed (as Lucius proposed) for example:

Senior: 25
Hero:50
Legendary: 100

But then admin isn't going to check every teleported member to see if they got the merit on bitcointalk to be eligible for such ranks, so would have to include everyone here.

[Agbe]

That will cause another commotion in the forum between the two parties involved. So I also prefer the present system of karma giving. But if the -Karma giver user name will not appear at the recipient end then I support your suggestion. So that the receiver of the -Karma would know that that was the reason but some will still abuse the system by giving -Karma unnecessarily with their unethical reasons. So all the same let it be like this.