Igebotz appeal for DragonF and Penlex_Writer

[Igebotz]

Hello, Hounarable court and judges,

Igebotz introduced account A https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=97910 to the Forum, few months later account A introduced account B https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=98343 to the forum using his phone to create an account for account B.

Now the registered IP addresses of A and B are the same and both accounts are tagged as Alts but realistically they're two different humans behind those accounts. Account A wasn't aware such IP address rules existed, he did it out of ignorance and I'm pleding for both accounts to be pardoned..

Account A also went ahead to introduced another account to the forum ( check ref) but the person wasn't convinced and the account is left inactive ( no posts). Account A is not farming, he's new to the system. I've asked him to create an account on BTT which he did but wasn't comfortable as much as he is here and left BTT for ALT

Account A and B are not Alts, they're two different posters behind those accounts. If account A is forced to accept account B as his Alt, account B will have no legitimate reasons to be here anymore.. ( this can be easily done, but I want justice for both accounts to exist on their own)


Why use his phone to create an account?? When you're desperate to introduce someone to a new place or website, the first step is always to open an account in their name and try to setup it up. Some of us are guilty of this.

If there's something else I don't know about the rules I stand to be corrected.. I'm here to vouch for these accounts.. the Admin and the president are not to be blamed in this as they're only doing what's right for the forum but I'm only asking this hounarable court to look into this and temper justice with mercy..

If there's any penalty fees to be paid for their mistakes - I will be much willing to pay it from my ALTT hodlings.

Thanks..

Regards
The Sheriff.

[dragononcrypto]

The court is not yet in session as we wait for a Judge to be appointed to this case. Nonetheless, numerous rules apply.

Discussion, speculation, contempt of court, and generally commenting, is forbidden in the Forum Court and it punishable by considerable -karma.  If you are part of the defense, you are encouraged to post your defense. The prosecution is also welcome to submit any evidence either publicly or to the appointed Judge. For any users disobeying these simple rules, I will be recommending -4 karma per offense (multiplied by 4 per offense: ie 16, 64, 256, etc). For any Senators/D team unnecessarily involving themself in this case, I will be recommending -10 per offence.

[Freemind]

For the moment I will only say two things regarding this matter...

The first of those things, however, you can read it here, anyway I will quote myself:

Ignorance of the laws does not exempt one from complying with them. Ignorance of a law (a forum rule in this case) is no excuse, as these rules have been written on the forum for many years, so it is the user's obligation to know them.

Personally, the first thing I did (even before registering my account on this forum) was read the rules that must be followed here. I don't understand why other users can't do the same and if anyone has any questions please ask where appropriate.

The second and last thing I want to say is a very simple question: Why are you the one taking the case to court and not the affected users?.

Thank you.

[Igebotz]

Personally, the first thing I did (even before registering my account on this forum) was read the rules that must be followed here. I don't understand why other users can't do the same and if anyone has any questions please ask where appropriate.

Thank you Mr. President

Being Ignorance of the law is one thing, but what does the law say about someone who is innocent?  I've been here for over four years and still don't know about all of the badges and strikes.

The second and last thing I want to say is a very simple question: Why are you the one taking the case to court and not the affected users?.

Thank you.

Mr. President, I introduced account A to the community, so I consider it my job to care after him and everyone he introduces to the forum.  What does the law say regarding third-party appeals?  Prohibited? 

Those accounts are unaware of the forum court's existence; it may be too simple for you, but this forum is difficult to navigate.  Mr. President, I would not get involved if I didn't think they were innocent.  If he was farming, I would have told him to pay $5 and skip all the hassle.

Mr. President those accounts are not farmers and are not alts -  I want the judge to look thoroughly look at their posting pattern- and should be pardoned for their newbie mistake. They're not teleported accounts, this is their only home..

Thank you ..

You're not allowed to post here - talking about third party appeals and yet can't read the rules.

[Igebotz]

It's been 4 days since I made this appeal, no respond from the judge, the admin. This is a democratic Forum and I believe the allegations against those accounts should be dropped if there's no evidence of farming and if the forum can't prove that those accounts are indeed operated by the same person beyond just registration IP addresses.

If the forum can not revise incorrect decisions, then it's not longer a democratic Forum and why do we have the court.

If the community are not allowed to post here, I will create another topic on the forum board where the community can freely express themselves.

[Jokers]

It's been 4 days since I made this appeal, no respond from the judge, the admin.

I looked through this case and don't see enough data for making any conclusions. As Freemind noted, no one of affected users came to share their position, so as a judge I don't see what to work with.

Other judges can have their own point of view on this case, this is just my personal intermediate thought.

If the community are not allowed to post here, I will create another topic on the forum board where the community can freely express themselves.

As far as I remember, no one dissuaded you from this.

[admin]

in the cases where the ip changes everyday it is really difficult to tell,
is it foul play to change the ip ? in a normal context based on privacy i would say no, but when signature campaigns enter into play then the chances increase dramatically.

What can be done in this case, here's a suggestion,
we can remove zoom 1, but the users will not be allowed to have a signature
and they should stop changing ips, if within 2 weeks - 1 month we can clearly establish that there is no connection, then they will be authorised to have signatures again.

Every signature that goes to a fake user, is a signature taken from real members

this is only a suggestion, if a judge have another proposal why not

[Igebotz]

in the cases where the ip changes everyday it is really difficult to tell,
is it foul play to change the ip ? in a normal context based on privacy i would say no, but when signature campaigns enter into play then the chances increase dramatically.

What can be done in this case, here's a suggestion,
we can remove zoom 1, but the users will not be allowed to have a signature
and they should stop changing ips, if within 2 weeks - 1 month we can clearly establish that there is no connection, then they will be authorised to have signatures again.

I'm not sure there's any Nigerian account with 1 IP address because of the poor Internet network situation, an average Nigerian uses 2-4 Internet provider sims and you're forced to rotates, use public network, work network in our daily lives. If they can't use signature for 2weeks - 1 month no problem, they can cope with that.

They are reading this post - for the IP they would try to limit loging into the forum with different IP addresses for now. Another problem is we can't limit their movement as there are locations they might travel to, within this time that would require them to change Internet network provider.

Every signature that goes to a fake user, is a signature taken from real members

You entrusted a community into my hands, I will not stand for what is not true, I'm not called the sheriff for nothing, I'm known for busting Alts and cheaters on BTT. I will not support it here, any member of my community found quity of account farming and cheating, I will personally report them.. pardon this members, they're not cheaters. Thanks.

[alltalk]

I looked through this case and don't see enough data for making any conclusions. As Freemind noted, no one of affected users came to share their position, so as a judge I don't see what to work with.

You're right. Judges have no data related to this case. So we can't help and can't decide any conclusion. As far as I know, judges have never been asked to decide anything and have not shared any evidence since the red dot was implemented in the forum. CMIIW

Sure, the affected users actually need to respond it themselves. So this can be clearer. They can't rely on another user.

Other judges can have their own point of view on this case, this is just my personal intermediate thought.

I think we almost have the same point of view. 

in the cases where the ip changes everyday it is really difficult to tell,
is it foul play to change the ip ? in a normal context based on privacy i would say no, but when signature campaigns enter into play then the chances increase dramatically.

Agree. Actually, there is no problem to change IP, it is normal that someone may change his/her IP due to privacy purpose. If there is something unnatural, I think the campaign manager must be aware of it.

What can be done in this case, here's a suggestion,
we can remove zoom 1, but the users will not be allowed to have a signature
and they should stop changing ips, if within 2 weeks - 1 month we can clearly establish that there is no connection, then they will be authorised to have signatures again.

I think this is a wise solution for this case.  At least, make sure that they have no connections first. Then, they can apply again to join signature if they finally can prove to have no any connection.

I'm not sure there's any Nigerian account with 1 IP address because of the poor Internet network situation, an average Nigerian uses 2-4 Internet provider sims and you're forced to rotates, use public network, work network in our daily lives. If they can't use signature for 2weeks - 1 month no problem, they can cope with that.

They are reading this post - for the IP they would try to limit loging into the forum with different IP addresses for now. Another problem is we can't limit their movement as there are locations they might travel to, within this time that would require them to change Internet network provider.

Mate, Admin has advised with a wise solution. If you can contact those members, you need to try suggesting them to do what Admin has said above. I know the connection may be a difficult problem in Nigeria, but you must have an idea to deal with the connection issue. 

[Igebotz]

Mate, Admin has advised with a wise solution. If you can contact those members, you need to try suggesting them to do what Admin has said above. I know the connection may be a difficult problem in Nigeria, but you must have an idea to deal with the connection issue. 

His Majesty, Mr hounarable Judge,

You've spoken well.

I've already told them and they're already saw what the admin says, they would try to limit IP addresses, but my question again goes to the admin - is there anyone on the forum who uses only one IP address? Limiting IP addresses is not a good privacy advice.

Again - Internet network connection is a difficulty in third-world countries.  Finally, it should be noted in this court that one of these users lost a legitimate signature place due to a forum decision made in the absence of proper evidence.  Isn't that enough punishment?

If the, Admin, judges and the President didn't found them guilty, may I ask that those accounts be removed from Zoom 1 so we can all move on and I can focus on investigating and presenting other petitions before the court.

Why you? Sorry, but I'm the spokesperson for the Nigerian local board and i make sure I do my home work before presenting a case.

Thank you Judge.

[admin]

ok here's a proposal, feel free to propose something else if you have another solution
given that these are teleported accounts, it means that if they are suspected of cheating their earning could also be affected on bitcointalk

thus given that the paid the penalty, i suggest next step would be:
- move from zoom1 to another group that limits signature , till issue resolved
- request to not change ip for 1 month
- kyc verification with id (will not be stored, only to resolve this issue)
- interview with users (i am willing to conduct the interview)

[Igebotz]

ok here's a proposal, feel free to propose something else if you have another solution
given that these are teleported accounts, it means that if they are suspected of cheating their earning could also be affected on bitcointalk

thus given that the paid the penalty, i suggest next step would be:
- move from zoom1 to another group that limits signature , till issue resolved
- request to not change ip for 1 month
- kyc verification with id (will not be stored, only to resolve this issue)
- interview with users (i am willing to conduct the interview)

They're not teleported users from BTT, the dragonF guy only created an account on BTT few months ago ( an inactive newbie account with less than 20 posts I guess, he posted few times on the local board)

I will not advice anyone from my community to send a personal IDs, not even to the the government, but they're adults and if they want to, I can't stop them. I will let both users to answer that by themselves here.

What will you be doing with their IDs anyway, not like anyone users real information on forums. BTW you're really asking too much, anyone reading this court would feel they stole 20ETH from the forum treasure.

Here's my option; you can't subject them to four conditions - they're only going to offer you one, so you have to chose only one option. They're the victims here and should be treated with respect also.

Edit: I've sent invitation to dragonF and asked to also inform his colleague to make a statement on the KYC..

Good decision, but does this only apply to Igebotz? considering many have been caught doing multiple accounts and decided not to login anymore for now.

You should be ashamed of yourself, caught cheating and still posting on forum you're not wanted. Not even the FBI can get my IDs

[Igebotz]

Also do you need a big glass for you? you are caught cheater too but trying to be a hero by using this drama.

Not like you who cheat for $30 - you should go and ask around about me. Unless you want to keep getting -karma on your worthless account STFU.

@dragononcrypto why are you removing constructive comments here and ignoring this troll?

[admin]

maybe kyc is too much, and we also have proof it does not work, but interview is a good idea

@pacar_tiri
anyone who paid the penalty can prove innocence ... however, we are still trying to find the ideal way

[Igebotz]

maybe kyc is too much, and we also have proof it does not work, but interview is a good idea

They're all yours - video interview, written interview, audio interview.

What would be the forum compensation to these accounts if found not guilty? I mean one of these accounts lost an income due to the penalty.  Karma compensation I will suggest.

What about my points? Read someone making a case loses some certain amounts of points. Lol kidding, I will never convert my points to ALTT ever anyway. I will be watching